>On september 27th I will attend Rolling Stones at Giants Stadium, and the next night I will attend Eric Clapton in Madison Sqaure Garden. Giants Stadium is four times bigger than Madison, and still Clapton's tickets was half the price compared to the Stones ticket prices.


Good for you. So Clapton can't be good as he refused to play stadiums and he also refuses high ticket prices?

You forgot that the Stones had to cancel a lot of shows here in Europe and that's only because of high ticket prices! No they are going back to the States in the hope to make some more money and will leave a lot of pissed fans in Europe!

As Gazza states Cooder could never be a Stone, or in any band (Beefheart, etc) for more than an album; Beck I discussed; Clapton is a far less interesting guitarist and record maker than Wood since around the time of EC Was Herek, and Mandel? 3 tracks on B&B, & of course his contributions with Canned Heat (good) - please don't mention Mayall - interesting but very uneven solo albums 35 years ago. Whatever happened to the more Taylor minus the baroque curlicues (Wayne P) - nice work on the Wailers' Catch a Fire...Where's he been recently...How many dozens of threads do we need about Wood's uselessness as a Stone? I saw him doing very good work this tour, and it's been 31 plus years...And yes he's got addictions, and I truly wish him the best in every way as he's given me a lot of joy since I first bought Beck-Ola & Gasolene Alley, & is a truly nice guy with a beautiful smile who looks you in the eye at book signings.

Besides personal relations Ry Cooder would never play with the Stones on a regular basis because his musical concept is so totally different from theirs and there is no reason why he should give up that fascinating musical variety for a sideman job.

Sam goes for Clapton. I cannot imagine him as a sideman even if he attracts less people than the Stones. If Mick Taylor is not able to fill in - he would be first choice, everybody knows that - they have to look for another guitarist, but for a sideman, not a star in his own right.

if the Stones ever brought a dull blue rinser like Clapton in, even for one gig i'd have to burn my records

the man defines the term 'boring old fart'. his music is sterile, passionless and 'grey'. it makes Chris Rea sound avant-garde in comparisson

i can understand how some older folks love him, because they can sit down and do the crossword or knitting at his gigs. however, anyone with half a pulse must surely find the man a sleep inducing duffer

if the Stones need to replace Ronnie for a few months they should bring in a double barrel attack of Angus and Malcolm Young )

that'd wake the pimms brigade up for sure - lol

I'll only join this discussion on the understanding that it's purly hypothetical... and nothing to do with any silly rumours of Ronnie's imminent collapse ;^).

In the event that Ronnie were to fall victim of an acute illness and be unable to play for a period...I suspect that [having already lost half the tour !] they would probably go without him. The obvious solution for current live shows would be to strap a guitar on Blondie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-31 16:03 by Spud.

andy js Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if the Stones ever brought a dull blue rinser like
> Clapton in, even for one gig i'd have to burn my
> records
>
> the man defines the term 'boring old fart'. his
> music is sterile, passionless and 'grey'. it makes
> Chris Rea sound avant-garde in comparisson
>
> i can understand how some older folks love him,
> because they can sit down and do the crossword or
> knitting at his gigs. however, anyone with half a
> pulse must surely find the man a sleep inducing
> duffer
>
> if the Stones need to replace Ronnie for a few
> months they should bring in a double barrel attack
> of Angus and Malcolm Young )
>
> that'd wake the pimms brigade up for sure - lol

If that's how you feel about blues.. you're a fake Stones fan!!

Gaza is completely correct regarding Ry Cooder and his 'working relationship' with he Stones, especially with Keef. He would never work. But he is totally wrong on several other fronts. Cooder called the Stones 'bloodsuckers' because most of the slide guitar work that graces Let It Bleed and Sticky Fingers was his...and other than an acknowledgment on Sticky Fingers for 'Sister Morphine'...nada. Listen to Let It Bleed and tell me he has no right to be pissed off. That kind of guitar never again appeared on a Stones album. Ever wonder why? Wake up. Secondly...Tatoo You was FILLED with pre-Woody work...most of it was pre-Woody. I could go to a song-by-song list, but why bore everybody? SO the original point remains...aside from a glorious few years in the late 1970's [and perhaps a year or two in the futile 'Dirty Work' era] Woody has been an utter mediocrity as a musician for this band.

WHATEVER!!

TONIGHT, THE STONES PLAY THE ARENA!! WITH RON!!


NO TIME FOR FIGHTING, JUST ROCK 'N' ROLL!!

I'm not disputing the reasons why he caleld the Stones bloodsuckers, Turd - merely using it as an emphasis as to why he would never have worked as a Stone. Aside from the fact that he was never on any serious shortlist to join anyway.

Four songs - from TY predate Woody's part in the band - Tops, WOAF, WAY and Slave (the latter two only by a couple of months). WOAF was originally cut in the early 70's but the version on the album includes substantial reworking, rewriting and overdubs added in 1979 and 1981. Ronnie does add overdubbed guitar on Slave, but isnt present on the other three mentioned above

Heaven and Neighbours are new songs recorded specifically for TY. Ronnie doesnt appear on 'heaven' however

Start Me Up was first attempted in Munich '75 on Woody's first session, but was of course later recorded in late 1979

Little T&A was first recorded in early '79, No use in crying was co-written by Woody and first recorded in Paris in summer '79

hang Fire was first cut in 1978 but the TY version is from 1979. Similarly with Black limousine - which Ronnie also co-wrote.

I'm not going to argue with your opinions as to Woody's merits or lack of them - thats personal opinion. Cant see anything changing at this late stage in the game however



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-31 16:31 by Gazza.

For more insight about what happened between Ry Cooder & the Stones, the Making of Let It Bleed is an interesting read.

Lizard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If that's how you feel about blues.. you're a fake
> Stones fan!!

there's nothing remotely blues (apart from half his crowds hair) about Clapton these days. he openly admits he sold his soul for the coporate dollar

the sooner he gives up music the better i'll feel

Lizard Wrote:
> If that's how you feel about blues.. you're a fake
> Stones fan!!


sheesh....how much blues do the Stones play at a show now anyway? Most of their corporate audiences wouldnt know or appreciate blues music if it jumped up and bit them in the arsehole - they probably think John Lee Hooker is a prostitute and Howlin' Wolf is an animal in a Disney cartoon.

gwen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For more insight about what happened between Ry
> Cooder & the Stones, the Making of Let It Bleed is
> an interesting read.


Hi gwen,

I don't know about this book. Do you know who wrote it?

Cindy - here you are:

[www.amazon.co.uk]

Gazza - respect to you, my man - is unfortunately quite right in stating that nothing will change at this stage of the game, regarding Mr. Wood. Regarding the Tattoo You Sessions: the information I have is the following...and all respect to Gazza for his knowledge...

1. SLAVE was originally recorded back in 1974 in Munich.
2. WAITING ON FRIEND was originally recorded in 1973-1974.
3. HANG FIRE was also recorded [in seminal fashion] back in 1974-75 [I have the boots to prove it, if the liner notes are correct].
4. TOPS was recorded in 1974.
5. WAITING ON A FRIEND was conceived in 1973 for the Goat's Head Soup album.
6. START ME UP was a reggae number conceived around this time as well...

The point to all this useless information...Woody's artistic contribution to the Stones has been negligible for most of his stint as wingman for Keef...the question is whether this has been by design or due to the simple fact that his horrible addictions and slavish attempts to be Keef's compadre and little bro. have so severely compromised his once burgeoning talents that they have rendered him a shadow of the musician he once was.

Without wishing to labour the point, I used Nico Zentgraf's excellent page as a prime source for my recolelctions, Turd - for the bits I couldnt remember offhand at least!

[www.nzentgraf.de]

Nico's probably the best source of Stones info that I know of.

Point being that a lot of songs in their finished form often bear scant comparison to how the song was originally conceived.

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see Woody back on the form that he used to be capable of (and I still think he has his moments), but the band as they are now are in the autumn of their careers anyway, and theres no way IMO they're going to 'blood' a new recruit at this stage.

I'd also argue - more controversially perhaps - that Keith's own creative muse as a writer has left him in recent years, as evidenced by his lack of output since Voodoo Lounge was recorded 13 years ago. No solo albums, about half of BTB at best, 1 new song on 40 Licks and maybe 3-4 off ABB, with the rest being solely or primarily written by Jagger, who has continued to be reasonably prolific for much of the last decade or more.

gwen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cindy - here you are:
>
> [www.amazon.co.uk]-
> 6754092-2193415?v=glance&n=266239


Thanks Gwen!

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'd also argue - more controversially perhaps -
> that Keith's own creative muse as a writer has
> left him in recent years, as evidenced by his lack
> of output since Voodoo Lounge was recorded 13
> years ago. No solo albums, about half of BTB at
> best, 1 new song on 40 Licks and maybe 3-4 off
> ABB, with the rest being solely or primarily
> written by Jagger, who has continued to be
> reasonably prolific for much of the last decade or
> more.

We don't know what is going on in the L-room - several people reported that Keith has loads of material recorded there. The Marsha Hansen CD is one of these.

Now maybe what he does in there somehow doesn't fit with the Rolling Stones.

gwen Wrote:
> We don't know what is going on in the L-room -
> several people reported that Keith has loads of
> material recorded there.

I've heard that too, Gwen. Whether its finished and releasable is another thing, though. If it is, I cant see why he's sitting on it.

The Marsha Hansen CD is
> one of these.

in fairness, thats not Keith's own creation (got my copy last week!)


> Now maybe what he does in there somehow doesn't
> fit with the Rolling Stones.

true. But he had years of opportunity between BTB and ABB to put something out. Seems a bit of a waste that he didnt, especially as hes so quick to rubbish Mick's solo projects in the same period.

I agree with Gazza and don't see what Keith playing sideman for his sister-in-law does to counter the suggestion that Keith's songwriting has dwindled at least in quantity. His solo output since the Winos packed it in 13 years ago has consisted of covers (some excellent performances such as "You Win Again," "Still a Fool," "Love Hurts," and "I'm Ready") and laying down guitar as a session player. Most of the songwriting since VOODOO LOUNGE appears to be dominated by Jagger. I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If it is,
> I cant see why he's sitting on it.

I have no idea!

> in fairness, thats not Keith's own creation (got
> my copy last week!)
>

Still waiting for mine ! True that it doesn't mean anything as Keith is not writing songs for this.

>
> true. But he had years of opportunity between BTB
> and ABB to put something out. Seems a bit of a
> waste that he didnt, especially as hes so quick to
> rubbish Mick's solo projects in the same period.

Maybe he was disappointed with the sales of the Wingless stuff and the problems he had with remaining angels aftewards. Also the avorted Winos come-back after No Security.

Didn't Keith himself say in an interview that he recorded a lot in the basement of his house in Conneticut (is it Conneticut?)
I could image it being in the style of Losing My Touch, This Place is Empty, etc.
He doesn't really write rockers anymore, does he? I think he is just to lazy to put it on a record.

Apart from that, Keith also says all the time that they have a lot of good stuff "in the can" but they decided not to use it for ABB (mick said the same). Ronnie said that he has a couple of songs that he wants to show to the band (that was before the Licks sessions). I think there is a lot of stuff out there, almost ready for release.


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

Mickerdicker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People, including myself, saw that Ronnie Wood
> could not walk into the Amstel Hotel by
> himself...so..I do not think that is a good sign.
> BUT..It could be that he was so happy to be in
> Amsterdam again, that he was too emotional to walk
> by himself! LOL
>
> So...please do not 'kill' the messenger LOL
>
> Mickerdicker


they got some killer hash in Amsterdam... i bet you'd walk funny too...

haaa

Just one point, during the shows nobody notices anything except the great fun they're having in the presence of the Stones. Enjoy and quit bitchin'/worrying.

Gazza Wrote:

>
> Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see
> Woody back on the form that he used to be capable
> of (and I still think he has his moments), but the
> band as they are now are in the autumn of their
> careers anyway, and theres no way IMO they're
> going to 'blood' a new recruit at this stage.
>
> I'd also argue - more controversially perhaps -
> that Keith's own creative muse as a writer has
> left him in recent years, as evidenced by his lack
> of output since Voodoo Lounge was recorded 13
> years ago. No solo albums, about half of BTB at
> best, 1 new song on 40 Licks and maybe 3-4 off
> ABB, with the rest being solely or primarily
> written by Jagger, who has continued to be
> reasonably prolific for much of the last decade or
> more.


Perhaps the closest to the actual and most honest assessment of the bands current position I've read on this board in quite some time.

I happened to see Harvey Mandel in a small club (FitzGeralds) ouside of Chicago a few years ago. he was something else...not a dull note. That said, he would;t fit the Stones full-time. (Also, his mother was quite proud that he was playing in a GAP commercial!)

watch ry cooder in buena vista social club and try to imagine him for 5 minutes as a rolling stone... he has made a career out of going around the world and ripping off other cultures... as far as htw, i imagine he thinks he wrote satisfaction too...

You Crazy bastards!! Ronnie played really well in the Amsterdam Arena yesterday.
Yes, he looked he would kill for a drink and a smoke, but he really played well with Keith.!! Bye jeroen