stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maumau,
>
> even yesterday you were lucky because a second
> penalty should've been given to France..
> Just admit it !

it is quite unbelievable. It is just too much for you that we won. What can I say?

You talk about the "second" penalty that should be called for France
Yes I agree the "second" penalty was to be called

Will you admit that the "first" penalty was not to be called because materazzi did not even touch malouda?

Will you admit that actually Toni was not in off-side when he scored but it was De Rossi and some could argue about that decision?

I did not push the argument to these points. You did. You want to consider football a one way street, that is: a one way street where Italy is going always in the opposite direction.

If you're happy with it...

dunhill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are totally blind as well, you don't want to
> accept defeat.


I have no choice, I accept that Italy has the cup.
one thing for sure, I don't like the italian spirit in football.
One of the worst and maybe even the worst !
I'm not the only one to say it.

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But we could also talk about the first 10 minutes
> and the violent way Italian players started the
> game.
>
> That's another shame too !

the first ten minutes of violence?!!
what happened in the first 10 minutes that your mind reconstructed as "italian violence" was a scary hit by henry against cannavaro which was rightly not called a fault. And Malouda diving in our box as he felt Materazzi come closer.
try not to be pathetic

and about luck
we hit 3 woods in the last 2 games
do you count these as our luck too?

and just to be clear because you seem to be good at playing with words. I am not complaining about the first penalty either. it was a mistake that every referee can do. (much like our penalty against australia)

maumau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
. it was a mistake that
> every referee can do. (much like our penalty
> against australia)

You're damn right!

Oh, come on, you crazy football fans!! I see so much complaining today from the Bleus side...

Since when the team which deserves the victory and does a "beautiful" playing wins??? And let's not forget that Italy did a way more offensive playing than France this World Cup. If it was because of "beautiful playing" Spain or Argentina should have won; did France anything else than defending with order and discipline and then looking after Ribery or Henry?? Did France other than yesterday carry the weight of the game by having the ball and creating goal chances?? Are french players more technically skilled than others?: No, mostly they are better athletes and that's all. It is a shame that this Championship didn't change the path that was set in the 2004 EuroCup, and did confirm that defensive order and athletic strenght is the way to win, instead offensive playing and passing skills...

In many ways this World Cup reminded me the one played in Italy in 1990: one the worst.

[There'll be no wedding today...]

as stonefan said before

I have no choice, I accept that Italy has the cup.
one thing for sure, I don't like the italian spirit in football.
One of the worst and maybe even the worst !
I'm not the only one to say it.

my opinion:
once again back-stabbing behaviour pays off
italy only wins by dirty tricks during the whole
tournament, damn
the italien players behave like kindergarden children
if the italiens are fouled, the whole world is bad, when italiens foul
nothing happens.
they got unauthorised penalties ,ie in the australia game.
the only thing they have is luck,nothing more:
the devil shits on the greatest dunghill
let´s wait what will happen with juve and milan - perhaps nothing
imo this clubs have to be closed forever,taking bribes is destroying sport

please note that my opinion only includes the italien
team especially lippi not the population


my last word about the worldcup ! - worldcup finished - tour starts tomorrow

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh, give me the beat, boys, and free my soul
I wanna get lost in your rock and roll and drift away



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-10 17:30 by TeleK.

somesmerized Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> phd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Good for Italy. Now, those who criticize the
> red
> > card gesture of Zidane, should be more moderate
> in
> > the sense of waiting why he did that. Probably
> due
> > to a xenophob, racist word from a non-angel
> > italian player. I think this guy is not
> respected
> > in his own country. Maybe he will be thrown to
> > jail next week or the week after along with
> some
> > other compatriots. That does not excuse what
> > Zidane did. He got what he deserved and
> probably
> > made France lose the cup. Italy won. Did they
> play
> > better than France or Germany !!!!
>
> Zidane deserved a red HAD a referee seen him, but
> that was not the case. What happened, is the
> assistant clearly used the images from TV Cameras,
> to establish Zidane's gesture, and only then did
> the first referee give the card. Unlike in other
> sports, it is not allowed for Soccer referees to
> uses TV images to make or back their descision...
> Yet that's what happened in this case. According
> to the rules, Zidane shouldn't have got a red
> card.
>
> My two cents.
>
> JM


ok, I give up. This is the whole true story of last night final:
the first penalty was rightly called
materazzi's goal was to be annulled beacuse he is a violent and racist guy and so he probably make some fault
toni's crossbar was actually a great defense by Barthez
Buffon's defenses against henry and zidane were pure luck
Zidane "according to the rules" was to stay in the game while materazzi, who is a racist and violent player, should be given a red card because he simulated (actually this is what messier domenech had the nerve to say)
All the penalties scored by Italia were pure luck and maybe they should have been repeated because italians are italians and we know what that means
Not to mention Trezeguet's mistake that actually demonstrates the scheme of the FIFA against france and in support of Italy...

For the record: did you notice that the chairman of FIFA, mr Blatter di not show up to give the cup to Italy as he was supposed to do? I think it is the first time that this happens and should tell you something about the support of the football establishment towards Italy...

Malouda did not dive as you claim. You should have a better look.

Toni was off side when he scored a goal, then again, you should have a better look. Sorry but it's the truth...Just have a better look.

stop being with obsessed with victory



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-10 17:46 by stonefan.

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Malouda did not dive as you claim. You should have
> a better look.
>
> Toni was off side whenb he scored a goal, then
> again, you should have a better look. Sorry but
> it's the truth...Just have a better look.
>
> stop being with obsessed with victory

have you seen those actions lately
I just dare say you need to look better at them

i think it is more you that is obsessed with defeat or "italian's victory"

you and others keep on quoting our penalty against australia as the mother of all unjustices. I consider that a mistake and a luck for us. But you dont talk about the red card to materazzi in that same game which was completely unfair.
you just consider ukraine like it was togo, but it isn't. You dont consider the strenght of our group (in terms of FIFA rankings we were the third team there) compared to that of France (not to mention Germany's)

On the one hand you try to find alibis for Zidane in the behavor of italians, on the other you recall De Rossi's mad fault but dont remember how many faults from behind american players (Onyewu in particular) did in the first 20 minutes of the game.

You consider great football when is played by offenders, but i have to tell you that great football is also played by defenders like Gattuso, Cannavaro, Grosso and Buffon.

You are pretty much like some journalists here in italy that, after Brazil won 3-0 against Ghana, talked about the "samba futbol". I had seen the whole game and not just the highlights. If you see a whole game (and dont want to be blind) you see also how the defense play, how the defender midfields play etc. A team of football is all these things put together and not just a great player that do some tricks (if football was like that Cristiano Ronaldo would be the champion of the world).

So look deeper and maybe you will come to terms with italy winning the world cup

Great won and games for Italy! Congratulations. You deserved it! You did three beautiful goals in the most important (last two) games. I have never been a fan of Italian football and its strong defence orientation, but you were the best team to know and use your strenghts here and that's why you won. Absolutely perfect performance over all! And you certainly have the most dangerous offense players; if there is statistics which will show the percentage of scoring in given oppurtunities, I am sure Italy is numero uno. There you can find the difference between high quality and mediocre quality teams.

France was brilliant too, but perhaps French did their best performances against the teams that were considered clearly 'better' beforehand: Spain and Brazil. But in the most important games, when the pressure was the heighest, against Portugal and Italy, they couldn't score any fair goal (only penalty kicks) - and that is not a mark of world champion. I especially feel sorry for Zidane - but his stupid act somehow made justified the win of Italy. Even if France had won the penalty shots, Zidane's idiotism would have left a bitter taste to the whole win.

Germany also were surprisingly good; their joyful, "ungerman" game was a joy to watch - but they didn't deserve the title because there was nothing left of that joy in the most important games: against Argentina and Italy. The fist they won with their famous luck and guts, but the second was too much. Bronze seem fair to Germany.

- Doxa

I have to modify what I say

It's not Toni who was off side but the italian player on his left.
he was declared off side because he tried to play the ball..
so he was active and not passive...do you understanbd that ?
It's the rule, not my vision !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-10 18:06 by stonefan.

CONGRATULATIONS TO ITALIA FROM CROATIA, & TANTI BACI TO ALL ITALIAN GIRLS THAT LIKE STONES AND CALCIO!

According to the Guardian, Materazzi had been belting Zidane the whole game, until Zidane said: "stop holding my shirt"
- Shut up @#$%&, you have what you deserve
- yeah, whatever (that's when Zidane walks away)
- You all got what you deserve, @#$%& muslims, terrorist pigs.
That's when Zidane turns around and heads him.
At least he should have hit on the face, it would have been worth something.

>
> ok, I give up. This is the whole true story of
> last night final:
> the first penalty was rightly called
> materazzi's goal was to be annulled beacuse he is
> a violent and racist guy and so he probably make
> some fault
> toni's crossbar was actually a great defense by
> Barthez
> Buffon's defenses against henry and zidane were
> pure luck
> Zidane "according to the rules" was to stay in the
> game while materazzi, who is a racist and violent
> player, should be given a red card because he
> simulated (actually this is what messier domenech
> had the nerve to say)
> All the penalties scored by Italia were pure luck
> and maybe they should have been repeated because
> italians are italians and we know what that means
> Not to mention Trezeguet's mistake that actually
> demonstrates the scheme of the FIFA against france
> and in support of Italy...
>
> For the record: did you notice that the chairman
> of FIFA, mr Blatter di not show up to give the cup
> to Italy as he was supposed to do? I think it is
> the first time that this happens and should tell
> you something about the support of the football
> establishment towards Italy...


AH AH AH ! Finally, you are becoming abjective ;0)

Seriously though, if you want to stick to the rules, The use of Video (especially from an OFF Camera, not even the live one) is not permitted. That's it.

otonneau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the Guardian, Materazzi had been
> belting Zidane the whole game, until Zidane said:
> "stop holding my shirt"
> - Shut up @#$%&, you have what you deserve
> - yeah, whatever (that's when Zidane walks away)
> - You all got what you deserve, @#$%& muslims,
> terrorist pigs.
> That's when Zidane turns around and heads him.
> At least he should have hit on the face, it would
> have been worth something.

yeah right Olivier !
if it's true, I hope he'll be punished for his racist words !!

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to modify what I say
>
> It's not Toni who was off side but the italian
> player on his left.
> he was declared off side because he tried to play
> the ball..
> so h was active and not passive...do you
> understanbd that ?
> It's the rule, not my vision !

bravo stonesfan!
it is exactly what i said. so he was considered active and i agree with that.
what I was questioning with these examples is the fact that you and others try to find something "unfair" in the fact that we won.

We did nothing unfair. There were good plays, mistakes by players and referee, luck and bad luck on each side etc...everything that football is made of. As someone else pointed out with me it is not the first time that a match is won by the team that was under. All i say is that if you look with no prejudice to the whole tournament of Italia you will find good reasons to consider that they deserve the cup. France could either, Germany could either, Portugal could either. But these other teams did not make it and it was not just a matter of luck, or a matter of bad calls in favour of Italy, as you seem to imply.

A great shot by zidane is not luck. So a great defense by buffon is not luck. As doxa pointed out France was able to score just 2 penalties in the last 2 matches, does this say something to you? or it is just another luck for italy? Is italy's luck or merit if germany scored 3 goal to portugal but did not to italy? Were we lucky to score the goals we score to Germany? Does it tell you something about the streght of a team if 10 players score its 12 goals, or that we took goals only from 1 penalty and 1 selfgoal by Zaccardo?

maumau wrote:

---------------------------------------
>For the record: did you notice that the chairman of FIFA, mr Blatter di not >show up to give the cup to Italy as he was supposed to do? I think it is the >first time that this happens and should tell you something about the support >of the football establishment towards Italy...

That's only why he is a chicken! He knows that we would have been mercyless booed out of the stadium so he tried to safe the hand over of the cup.

If Materazzi told Zidane he is a terrorist, I guess the reaction kind of proved him right...

Plus, it is really ridiculous that the French would be so shocked by these words, when the immigrant community is kept in segregated urban reservations where they are denied most opportunities other Frenchmen enjoy. Our cheese-eating, surrendering friends only become ecumenical during the World Cup. Go drown your disappointment in some overpriced Bordeaux and give the rest of us a break. You had your share of arguably undeserved victories (like Euro 2000), now it's time to shut the @#$%& up.

stonefan: If you think Malouda didn't dive, you are truly an idiot.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-10 18:30 by Raoul Duke.

stonefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> otonneau Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > According to the Guardian, Materazzi had been
> > belting Zidane the whole game, until Zidane
> said:
> > "stop holding my shirt"
> > - Shut up @#$%&, you have what you deserve
> > - yeah, whatever (that's when Zidane walks
> away)
> > - You all got what you deserve, @#$%& muslims,
> > terrorist pigs.
> > That's when Zidane turns around and heads him.
> > At least he should have hit on the face, it
> would
> > have been worth something.
>
> yeah right Olivier !
> if it's true, I hope he'll be punished for his
> racist words !!

if it is true i could not agree more. He should be rightly punished for the words as Zidane should be for his violent gesture.

but then of course you immediately give credit to the newspaper because it tells you what you want to think/believe and you add all your !! !! !!!

I dont think I hate any national/club team or players the way you hate italians.

maumau: I must admit I scared myself yesterday by supporting Italy, LOL!!!

[There'll be no wedding today...]

> - You all got what you deserve, @#$%& muslims,
> terrorist pigs.
> That's when Zidane turns around and heads him.
> At least he should have hit on the face, it would
> have been worth something.


if that's really the truth I like to see how the FIFA will react with all their anti-racists and fair play words on their web site!

Raoul Duke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Materazzi told Zidane he is a terrorist, I
> guess the reaction kind of proved him right...
>
> Plus, it is really ridiculous that the French
> would be so shocked by these words, when the
> immigrant community is kept in segregated urban
> reservations where they are denied the
> opportunities enjoyed by other Frenchmen. Our
> cheese-eating, surrendering friends only become
> ecumenical during the World Cup.
>
> stonefan: If you think Malouda didn't dive, you
> are truly an idiot.

Wow it doesn't take a lot to be considerred a terrorist these days... If you really mean that then you are an idiot.

Best regards from one of your cheese-eating, surrendering friend,

JM

somesmerized Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow it doesn't take a lot to be considerred a
> terrorist these days... If you really mean that
> then you are an idiot.
>
> Best regards from one of your cheese-eating,
> surrendering friend,
>
> JM


Well, maybe not a terrorist, but a thug he has always been.

bruno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maumau: I must admit I scared myself yesterday by
> supporting Italy, LOL!!!


i was scared too!
god knows if i would not have preferred to win with a goal in the 120 mins!
god knows if i would not have preferred to see a better game by italy
i am just pissed off by this patent prejudice against Italy so that lets say Brazil can play shit (most of the games both in 1994 and 2002) and win and everyone says it is "jogo bonito", while italians play shit catenaccio and if they win...it is shit catenaccio.

Raoul Duke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> somesmerized Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow it doesn't take a lot to be considerred a
> > terrorist these days... If you really mean that
> > then you are an idiot.
> >
> > Best regards from one of your cheese-eating,
> > surrendering friend,
> >
> > JM
>
>
> Well, maybe not a terrorist, but a thug he has
> always been.


In any case, I don't think insulting people is the best way to deliver your message.

maumau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i am just pissed off by this patent prejudice
> against Italy so that lets say Brazil can play
> shit (most of the games both in 1994 and 2002) and
> win and everyone says it is "jogo bonito", while
> italians play shit catenaccio and if they win...it
> is shit catenaccio.

Nevertheless, I'm pissed off because if Spain plays shit, we lose; and if we play jogo bonito, we lose too...

[There'll be no wedding today...]

i watch a lot of soccer....

i thought zidane's play was easily one of the highlights of the world cup..it gave me great joy to watch him and i thank him.

i have a lot of respect for him and one headbutt isn't going to change that....things happen..its life...

he was truly the class of the world cup (i speak about his football)

thank you zidane for the pleasure the joy you gave soccer lovers! you will be missed .. you are truly one of the greats.. your skill, athleticism, vision and elegance are truly special

in this world cup you confirmed that you are on a level with pele and maradona... it is very very rare to see a player have such an impact in two world cups 8 years apart....

thank you zidane!!!!!!!!

"Plus, it is really ridiculous that the French would be so shocked by these words, when the immigrant community is kept in segregated urban reservations where they are denied most opportunities other Frenchmen enjoy."

Unrelated and simplistic.

"Our cheese-eating, surrendering friends only become ecumenical during the World Cup."

Bullshit, and why the generalities?

"Go drown your disappointment in some overpriced Bordeaux and give the rest of us a break."

Done that (but I live in UK and it was beer). As for your break, sorry sweety, I have a right to share an info and Materazzi is an arse if he said that.

"You had your share of arguably undeserved victories (like Euro 2000), now it's time to shut the @#$%& up."

I don't think I ever said that Italy did not deserve their victory.

"patent prejudice against italy"????

few like the way italy plays soccer.. there is no joy...

italy can win the world cup- congrats- but we know who we enjoyed watching yesterday...

its not prejudice..its like holland vs. germany in 1974.... germany won the game and world cup... but the team that gave the world pleasure was holland.... thats why people still talk about that team... whereas anyone hardly mentions germany...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-10 18:53 by stoned_in_dc.

stoned_in_dc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i watch a lot of soccer....
>
> i thought zidane's play was easily one of the
> highlights of the world cup..it gave me great joy
> to watch him and i thank him.
>
> i have a lot of respect for him and one headbutt
> isn't going to change that....things happen..its
> life...
>
> he was truly the class of the world cup (i speak
> about his football)
>
> thank you zidane for the pleasure the joy you gave
> soccer lovers! you will be missed .. you are truly
> one of the greats.. your skill, athleticism,
> vision and elegance are truly special
>
> in this world cup you confirmed that you are on a
> level with pele and maradona... it is very very
> rare to see a player have such an impact in two
> world cups 8 years apart....
>
> thank you zidane!!!!!!!!


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