understood now, Stoned in DC. Your descripition certainly does sound like something out of Tacitus' Annals.

I'm 48 years old. When I was 18 I wasn't buying Hank Williams, or Gene Vincent, or Big Joe Turner records, although I probably would have enjoyed them. The same goes for young people today. They buy the music of those artists with whom they identify. Like it or not, rock n roll is, and always has been, partly about music and partly about style. Especially with most (not all) younger folks. It's a fashion accessory to some people.

I don't see what the big deal is about ABB sales numbers. So what if a lot of people didn't buy it? I don't take it as a personal insult, and I'm not particularly worried about the Stones being a "success" at this stage in the game.

I'm 19 years old. I listen to and love the Stones. Consider your post rebutted.

Yes I recall Mick saying that in Albany because WE WERE A GREAT CROWD! Loud and appreciative! I need a bootleg dvd of that show, does anyone know where I can buy one?

KSIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm 48 years old. When I was 18 I wasn't buying
> Hank Williams, or Gene Vincent, or Big Joe Turner
> records, although I probably would have enjoyed
> them.


In fairness, Hank and Gene were already dead when you were 18 and Big Joe was just about still around. However, had they been playing in your neck of the woods, you would almost certainly have been able to afford to go to see them



The same goes for young people today. They
> buy the music of those artists with whom they
> identify. Like it or not, rock n roll is, and
> always has been, partly about music and partly
> about style. Especially with most (not all)
> younger folks. It's a fashion accessory to some
> people.

I see plenty of young people at Bob Dylan concerts, for example. Obviously, he doesnt sell tickets to the same degree as the Stones do, but I'm talking about percentage wise.
>
> I don't see what the big deal is about ABB sales
> numbers. So what if a lot of people didn't buy
> it? I don't take it as a personal insult, and I'm
> not particularly worried about the Stones being a
> "success" at this stage in the game.


I wouldnt say I take it as an insult. If I was primarily obsessed with my favourite act being top sellers, I'd be a Garth Brooks fan or something. However, theres an alarming drop in sales between what youd normally expect a Stones album to sell. And with a huge tour behind it, theres even less excuse. Its not like their fanbase has literally died off en masse or anything. However, you would expect the people who actually pay a LOT of money to go and see a band whom they presumably like a lot to actually BUY their new record. Personally, I cant grasp the concept that someone can go see a Rolling Stones show in 2006, pay $1,000 for a pair of tickets (plus all the extras that come with such a night out) and yet their 'love' for the band's music cant be extended enough to pay about $15 for their latest CD.

at the NY shows I was at in january, the reduction in the energy level of the audience when the band played anything new was amazing. It really was a 'nostalgia' show for most people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-19 19:18 by Gazza.

well voodoo lounge was arguably a better and more diverse album than most of their studio albums from mid to late 80's on (it is in my leetle opinion)
...so the american sales may possibly reflect that...

funny in a beautiful but sad way that fans would care more about ABB doing well than the actual band seems to...

would be interesting to see yank sales next to UK & European sales...
then work it out roughly per capita...
i doubt it was a bigass hit anywhere in the world for too very long...
please someone who knows, share the info.

what were it's sales in the countries where people are more free spirited and hot blooded about their fandom at the shows? any huge chart action there?
really dunno...would like to.

despite the "good reviews," i found ABB kinda lame myself, with the exception, as per usual, because they are the mighty rolling stones, of a few really stellar and wonderful new cuts for their catalog...
and that IS better than most bands do, these days...
so enormous credit where it is due.
and perhaps as time goes by, my feelings will change...
but i can usually hear what's pretty great right from the gitgo...
still i must leave myself open...some stuff i didn't used to like that much is very important to me now.

at first, after many many many a long year, i think everyone was so happy to hear something/anything new from the Stones...
then to hear RJ and LMDS in a row, and think...WOW this is killer!!!
and it was!! then it started getting hit and miss...more miss than hit...

those early reviews WERE exuberant...how much of that was excitement and hype about the coming world tour starting in boston...how much just the rush for writers to finally get a new stones album, and hoping hard...
...as time went by, little talk about ABB being a 'classic' or the 'best stones album since....'
and if it WERE, that would be mighty sad.
the press and fans and (maybe even radio, the stones can afford the same payola ashlee simpson's father can) seemed ready for something spectacular to crow about...and were given weird singles without much of a radio promo effort.

i know i personally and naturally went back to older albums, boots and then other albums by other, less studied new rock artists fairly quickly...and i had waited for months and months and months for this release with great anticipation and excitement.

personally, i can't listen to the whole thing in one sitting like i really love to do with a stones album...that's just me tho.
tho i do certainly have faves from ABB...

and i did buy it immediately upon release...etc...

i think the previous posts here have been mostly pretty intelligent analyses of american audiences, i can't guage european audiences...
i will say that the Stones are very much loved here; very much so...
and tho the audience has become obscenely over-gentrified...
the stones love that and sell all kinds of kitschy stuff to feed the doggies.

they play america with mucho gusto and seem to always knock people out, even the non-believers...to this very tour...

the stones themselves set up the ambiance and economy around them...
they are very loved in the states...
always have been majorly loved here...
from coast to coast...

but for most they are probably a bit the novelty or nostalgia act...
they could work harder and longer, o just a tad more consistently and openly on the writing... on the songswriting...or put things together with some writing additions from ronnie or other writers, or co-writers...
they just won't...which is frustrating...cause the power is still there.

or maybe they don't have that much to say in a meaningful way anymore, outside the classic catalog they use for their sets...

many here love ABB lp... i love two tracks very much; and a few others i can and do enjoy...not a big handful of good stuff to me anyway...
it would be interesting to see how much their general catalog sells
in a particular city or area concurrent with a tour stop.

if they make an important and consistent album, it will sell...
as per voodoo etc...
then again, ashlee simpson is the prototypical american rock signing and promotion/marketing star...and she is godawful in every and any conceivable way...
how are the ABB sales in UK and Europe per capita as compared with the states i wonder...

i'm still in it for the rock and roll...
and they can still deliver that...
i do not honestly think that most people here, really really exuberant and bright and caring fans...would rank ABB among the first 5 or possibly more...
of the greatest and most satisfying stones releases ever...

it's good to hear about them playing places where people are less uptight, less monied and more faithfully interested in rockin' out purty dang crazy...
that's so cool...
but i bet ABB sales there don't reflect huge chartage either...
dunno...just guessin.

if they put out a truly great and consistent album, it would be more respected and have better sales...but as a fan, i'm in it for the music...
and truth is...they've put out a lotta uninspired crap...

this is on m&k, not the others...because no one else is allowed to own a pen or come with anything fresh...even if glims eventually steal all the writers credits for any major contribution from others in the group...
they don't even go that far creatively anymore.

it's the hackneyed material, not the performance, or general lack of interst in stoneage...that affects sales...and maybe all the kitschy super eventorama expensive tourist shop crap...but people like that stuff too...
i think it kind of cynical...if you spend a grand for two seats, buy some prissy souvenirs for another hundred or two...them tee shirts ain't cheap...
well, why put out another twenty for an album they didn't even fairly promote in the show you just saw...brown sugaaaahhhh...have another beer...whoooooo.

you CANNOT do tv promotion on a new album...but you CAN sell a really expensive baby jumper with logo tongue...ok. priorities established...
live versions of 'lmds' on american tv would have made a huge differnce...
it's not part of their marketing strategy...they don't care...but we do???
as great as they are, i wonder where they'd be without american tv in the long careers... they are not selling it because THEY are NOT selling it.

they get paid upfront...and obviously aren't sweating the royalties...
i wonder what virgin had to pay them for delivering this thing also...
the $$ is on the road.

like true royalty now, they don't think they have to care...
and the landscape is littered with half hearted albums and attempts by now.

tho i do believe they care about each live show and absolutely come to rock the place, and do...so that's huge...i'm not slamming the band...i'm talking about this thread.

those baby jumpers and mega expensive souveniers...
how cute....how graceland...how awful.
what was this thread about?

perhaps if you had broken that last post up into chapters more people would have a chance of getting through it.

but i did, and i agree with a lot of it.

Yes, Beelyboy is the only long-post-writers,
but I read them too, and there's lotsa truth in them.

nikkibong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> perhaps if you had broken that last post up into
> chapters more people would have a chance of
> getting through it.
>
> but i did, and i agree with a lot of it.


yeah, dang i do try...most of my posts have been way shorter these last several weeks...i just went off on this one i guess...sorry guys...
i tried to shorten it up; and will edit it out if u think proper...
but it was flowing so i let it go...hopefully not distracting...

oh great post beely... i agree with much of it too..

i think you may have summarized it all

Ah Gazza, you're always picking on me! ;-)

Gazza wrote
>I see plenty of young people at Bob Dylan concerts, for example. Obviously, he doesnt sell tickets to the same >degree as the Stones do, but I'm talking about percentage wise.

Yes, but to you and Nikkibong, I did say "most (not all)". There are young people who listen to classic rock. In fairness, it's different than when I was 18 - the popular music of the last 40 years is not that dissimilar. Whereas my Dad listened to Gene Krupa and Glenn Miller, and hated the Stones, I can still dig a lot of current rock and often buy it. Likewise, The Strokes, or the Libertines, or Franz Ferdinand are doing stuff that isn't that different from what I listened to at 18. But my point was that the majority of the mass-market, disc-buying youth are motivated as much by what they perceive as "hip" as by the quality of the music. Good-looking, cocky punters with attitude are always going to sell. That's how rock has always been marketed.


>I wouldnt say I take it as an insult. If I was primarily obsessed with my favourite act being top sellers, I'd be a >Garth Brooks fan or something.

I've always assumed that you WERE a Garth fan :-)

>Personally, I cant grasp the concept that someone can go see a Rolling Stones show in 2006, pay $1,000 for a pair >of tickets (plus all the extras that come with such a night out) and yet their 'love' for the band's music cant be >extended enough to pay about $15 for their latest CD.

Why not? They are two different products. With a catalog as extensive as the Stones' it's very possible that many people feel like they already own enough recorded Stones material. The concert however is a new communal spectacle; a one-time rush. I don't necessarily see a connection between the two.

I pick on everyone, KSIE - dont 'feel so all alone', as Bob would put it ;-)

Me? a Garth Brooks fan? Cheeky bugger...

You make some fair points (honest), although I cant agree about the 'different products' angle about the links between a new album and a new tour. Its kinda natural that a new tour promotes a new record and should normally help boost its sales. The size of the discrepancy between album sales and ticket sales is more unique to the Stones than any other major act, I would think. But then a Stones concert audience seems to be quite different than that of most artists I can think

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I pick on everyone, KSIE - dont 'feel so all
> alone', as Bob would put it ;-)
>
> Me? a Garth Brooks fan? Cheeky bugger...
>
> You make some fair points (honest), although I
> cant agree about the 'different products' angle
> about the links between a new album and a new
> tour. Its kinda natural that a new tour promotes a
> new record and should normally help boost its
> sales. The size of the discrepancy between album
> sales and ticket sales is more unique to the
> Stones than any other major act, I would think.
> But then a Stones concert audience seems to be
> quite different than that of most artists I can
> think

this is why i'm interested in sales figures concurrent with tours...in various countries...

i bet there IS a bump in sales across the catalog. city to city.

especially studio or compilation or live albums that cover MOST of what's
being presented on the classic set lists these many years.
i agree with many of your points Gazza, but don't think the Stones are particularly promoting their current release with this tour...
even if it's named after the current studio album.

As far as the "younger" fans, and sales in general might I suggest a correlation between internet,ITunes, down loads ect as a possible reason sales of many bands cd's have changed over time. Why buy it when you can burn it off someone cheaper?

ABB didn't sell more because it was just an OK effort.........it has moments of brilliance ceratinly............ but people expect more from the Stones and that's fair.............because they are the Rolling Stones

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The size of the discrepancy between album
> sales and ticket sales is more unique to the
> Stones than any other major act, I would think.


Don't forget that one reason for this is the number of people who attend multiple shows. When I sat in the On-Stage seats this year, everybody that I talked to (20-25 people) had been to several shows. It's like the Grateful Dead anymore. My friends and I used to joke that there were really only about 15,000 Dead fans, it was just that each of them attended every show.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> probably more as there's presumably a lot of
> people who bought the album but couldnt afford/get
> the tickets

Agreed, but if we're thinking in such a practical manner, we should also take into account that a lot of people see the Stones more then once.

Why not consider the notion that music today (what most folks buy that drives sales and charts) is just not simply "grass roots" rock and roll anymore.

Particularly with the masses (major buying public) the genre is more..... well, I don't know what you'd call it, but its not rock and roll from the classic perspective.

ABB is astounding to me from the perspective of knowing where everything began with these guys and how they can tenaciously deliver some ripping tracks in their twilight now. That for me is truly what makes ABB so damn good even if from the critical perspective it misses the mark. I for one will be pulling this one off the shelf and abusing the volume control for years to come.

The other reason as I see things is that ABB was just poorly promoted and you definitely can't win the sales war if you're not getting the air time.

BTW-Beelboy heck of a read my man- I had to take my laptop to the lavatory with me for that one.

Personally I love the ABB and plays it right through a few times a week - even if I did get it on the release date. It's a great album....

..and they've played most of it through the tour...but this is a major tour - not small ballrooms unfortunately - so they HAVE to play the hits. People at my work are going and they don't give a shit about the new album - why should they?

Hell...we all love the old blues masters - but how many new songs did Muddy Waters play at his last concerts? How many did John Lee Hooker play - he just rehashed (to great effect mostly) his old back catalogue...

In general CD sales have dropped very heavily over the last years - and as for the Stones being the only ones with discrepancy between tickets and albums sold...well, ask Sir Paul that question..ask God Bob that question...he maybe sells less tickets per concert than the Stones but he tours constantly - all the time! Saw him in Denmark in October 2005 (playing to 6-8000) and now he's back in July 2006 playing to a festival crowd of maybe 75000......I don't think he sells that many albums a year in Denmark? And he's making great records too!

..as for ABB - well it hit the number one shot in Denmark and their concert sold out in five hours...as it did in Sweden and Norway....

Maybe they'll play more ABB-numbers in Europe seing that ABB made a bigger impact here....

MY TOP FIVE ALBUMS
Exile
Voodoo (preferring the less polished alternative version to the original release)
Beggars
Let it Bleed
Sticky

..and blazing in at number six: ABB...but with a bullet! If I like it as much in a year..I'll declare it a true classic. Took a long time to grow....but wow - now it's growing and grooving me like nothing else!! You really should listen to it just a few times more....