MicksBrain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I may have put it a bit harshly
> but a country that executes Political Prisoners
> with a shot or 2 to the head and then sends their
> family a bill (to be paid to the government) for
> the bullets used on that prisoner/family member
> really doesn't deserve any respect or decent
> comments about it what so ever IMHO.


As long as the fellas being excecuted are guilty as charged I think the Chinese are doing a mighy fine job. There's too much bullshit coming from softies about cruel and unusual punishment here in the States If ya ask me.

Manhattan, you got me in a mellow mood so I won't SCREAM AT YOU. Did you read my comment carefully. It says POLITICAL PRISONERS. That means Chinese guys and gals who say bad sh*t against the Government or print a little underground anti Government newspaper or Sh*t like that. So those people should be shot in the head? I'm sure you're just efing with me. As far as CAPITAL PUNISHMENT goes, I used to be for it. Then, I was over in Paris having a political discussion with a very good French friend and she said, "is it true that the US Government puts people to death?" Well, you know, I never heard it like THAT before. I started thinking, US Government = IRS, Post Office, DMV, Election Machines that don't work, New Orleans Hurricaine, Endless Wars, Letting 9/11 get past them, etc, etc. basically an institution where nothing works, nothing gets done right. It changed my mind REAL fast. Just look at high profile cases like OJ Simpson and Michael Jackson. 2 guys that are most likely guilty and they both get off cause they have the gigantic bucks. That means some guys on death row are truely innocent but had such crap court appointed attorney's that the representation was Bullsh*t. And now when they go back and do DNA testing they are finding out that once in a while the guy IS innocent. If the courts can't be 100% Correct 100% of the time then it's time to get rid of the Dealth Penelty (or limit it to VERY few cases like a Mark David Chapman who didn't even run when he shot Lennon. Plenty of people were there, he always said he did it. That's the only kind of case that should have the death penalty - where the guy is TOTALLY GUILTY, no doubts what so ever. I just don't dig the Government killing innocent people. I mean , they're killing innocent Iraqis daily and that's already totally pissing me off but for the sake of this discussion I'm basically talking about or legal system. Our VERY F*CKED UP legal system (just like everything else our Government gets involved with)....

Ah, Dr. Stephan, no worries mate, my RETORT is on it's way.....

Dear Kahoosier, well, I think that's good that you're providing your medical services for people that really need them. The asumptions made about me are totally off so I will clear them up. I'm an American by birth only (my parents had just come to America 6 years earlier from Europe). I disagree with about 95 % of what the US Government does and would have to say it's a very evil government at this point. I live part time in Paris in an apartment I have with my girl friend. I/we also will be living part time in Bali soon since a very good Photographer friend of mine is building a house there and we are welcome anytime plus he's on the road 80% of the time so we'll be house sitting a lot (and shooting of course. Our friend specializes in INDIA and SOUTH EAST ASIA + KOREA/JAPAN - he won't go to CHINA either- or BURMA) Am Also looking at getting a small apt in Buenos Aires since I love the city (people, food, wine, vibe etc) and South America in general. We do Travel Photography (stock/freelance/ex-fashion) so I've spent a good part of my life traveling around the world - lived in and/or visited over 80 countries (which I'd much rather do then sit around on my ass here - in the US).

I hate Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc with a PASSION and was, have ALWAYS been against the invastion/occupation of IRAQ. I don't think countries should be like us AT ALL - God Forbid !! - and I even hate how Americanized Paris (Europe in general) has gotten.I used to specialize in Photographing the more liberal Muslim countries (MOROCCO, TUNISIA, EGYPT, JORDAN, TURKEY, PALESTINE, UAE, and OMAN) and, because of my principles, have no interest in SAUDI ARABIA or any place the TALIBAN become strong again. With that said, I don't think those countries should be westernized at all, I think they should be left alone. Do I agree with all of their ways? No, but it's not for me to say, it's for them to live the way they want. I think it's so funny you think I'm some kind of Bush loving , Impearlist, when I'm much more French thinking then anything CLOSE to the USA - even HATE Amer. Football. BTW, as a Doctor did you know that the WHO (World Health Organization - not for you , for other readers) rates the FRENCH Health Care system as # 1 in the world and the USA system as #36? (but #1 in expense)? If you didn't you do now. I also have a family business that I oversee and if it wasn't for that I'd move out of here faster than the Roadrunner. I have ZERO hope in this country (AKA Titanic) turning around before it's too late.

As far as CHINA goes they're not opening up.(Just like the USSR in 1990 there's TONS OF PRESSURE due to the Internet, Satellite TV,Pop Culture through DVD's, CD's, Etc so the Government has got to bend a bit but that's it) The Government is still Communist (it still ORDERS millions of people to move, floods acient villages, so it can buld a giant Dam.It still shoots political prisoners in the head and sends the bill to the family. It's an uncivilized Walking talking hypocracy of a country and the only reason the west gives a flying f*ck is the super cheap slave labor. You think the pigs that run Wal Mart care about Chinese People? You think the pigs that run Wal Mart care about people at all?. I heard Dell Computer is moving almost all it's factories to China. I wouldn't touch Dell with a ten foot pole (I use all Macs anyway so I don't need to worry).I 've spent tons of time (maybe a total of 1 year) in different Communist countries and I know exactly what they're about.The most corrupt Governments having people live at Dog level while they live high on the hog. Ask any Romanian, ask any Pole what life was like. Ask a Russian. What are you trying to tell me, give them - CHINA - time? For what? How much Time have you spent Living in a true Communist country - on their wages, not Doctor wages (if you can afford staying at the 4 Seasons you ain't hurtin'. I can afford it, i just wouldn't pay it.I don't believe in rip offs (plus you should check who's invested heavily in those, you'd be surprised). This isn't anti Communism because of the US cold war bull sh*t, this is first hand experience. As Ross Perot used to say, where the rubber meets the road.

You're a Doctor, you're smart...ask yourself, why didn't the Stones play in some Giant 150,000 seat stadium in Bejing? Figure it out, The Government said NO WAY !!! Too risky to have that many kids all pumped up in one place at one time.So, they threw the people a bone and put it on TV - that's right, keep everyone in their little apartments so "WE -HAVE NO-TROBWEL- ON DWA - STWEETS. Don't forget, they have the Summer Olympics coming up in 2 years - must put on a good propaganda show for the rest of the world. The USA may be F*cked up big time these days but it's heaven next to CHINA. Human Rights my friend - that's what it's all about (and don't compare Islamic countries to China and say - look, lack of human rights because the people in those countries will tell you straight up that's the way it is there. The ones that don't like it get out and go to Europe or America. The Average China man can't even visit HONG KONG.) BTW, Shame on the Stones for not walking - I can't wait to hear the behind the scenes story of how they couldn't play a giant stadium. The government gave them rules up the ass - I have no doubt about it what so ever (we'll get the full story one day). They're SO effing stupid - the Chinese Officials - that they don't even know what songs to censor - The A holes missed some of the most obvious ones. BTW, McCartney has said he won't play China. Good for him......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-04-12 06:46 by MicksBrain.

you're correct Mr Brain -
this wan't a show for the Chinese people,
(as Mick more or less admitted himself),
it was for bankers and ex pats and rich tourists.

A good p.r exercise for the chinese govt,
in the build-up to the 2008 Olympics.

Adrian-L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you're correct Mr Brain -
> this wan't a show for the Chinese people,
> (as Mick more or less admitted himself),
> it was for bankers and ex pats and rich
> tourists.
>
> A good p.r exercise for the chinese govt,
> in the build-up to the 2008 Olympics.

I've always felt, and this is no bull sh*t, that there's a lot of smart clever people around here...some how most Stones fans see through the "Fog of BS" faster than the average Joe....Thanks Adrian - L , PR exercise, that's a good way of putting it.... PR is ALL that Rat Bastard Government ever cares about....

Good marketing for the Stones too as Mick even acknowledged that whilst most locals couldnt afford to go, it was unique in that it was being shown there on free TV

A clever way of reaching an untapped and potentially huge market

I am impressed by people who do not respect others. If China says you can come on certain conditons those are the conditions. Just like I take off my shoes when I go into a hotel in japan or a Mosque I pay money to take a leak in the Netherlands even if it is free in most other countries. It is about respecting the way pleol,e think and live. We are all different. In Norway we are proud of being drunk. Viking blood. Same in Finland I think. In most other countries being drunk is a shame. In USA you may show almost all of your tits but not just all of them because then you will get a million dollar fine. In China they don't spend their time on showing almost all of their tits so they can probably spend more time on making cheap items we buy in the western world. I don't know. All I know if is somebody say this is how they want it then I respect it, or I go away. The Stones did not go away.

Bjornulf

On the other hand one could also respect people (artists) who simpy won't go there because they can't say (or sing) what they want.

>> The government gave them rules up the ass - I have no doubt about it whatsoever (we'll get the full story one day) <<

... i just felt that bears repeating. we don't freakin know what the Stones were navigating in China,
and it sure will be interesting to hear about it someday.

>> one could also respect people (artists) who simpy won't go there <<

sure - also being a key word for me here ...


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

I dont respect the way they treat the Tibet People and The Chinese dont have tits(Im sorry).

bv Wrote:
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> In Norway we are proud of being drunk. Viking blood.

No, I don't think so.

bv Wrote:
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---In Norway we
> are proud of being drunk. Viking blood. Same in
> Finland I think.---

I trace some irony here. I believe Sweden ought to be on that list too.
But the pride seems to be uneven distributed.
We just cant handle booze up here, thats the whole story.

All you Swedes that dont see the genius in drunken folks;
go to the Skule Festival ...

straycatuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a disgrace.
>
> I'm thinking of selling my Tickets. I could see;
> Dylan
> Clapton
> The Who
> Waters.....
>
> and many more with the money.
>
> AUTO PILOT CASH COW. It's time to stop if this is
> the best they can do.
>
> Everytime I get used to /accept another outrage
> ,they lower the barr.
>
> I've been a loyal fan for 26 years,but how low can
> they go ?
>
>
> sc uk


It'$ the $ame old $hit, by the time they reach Europe who know$, it may be 14-15 $ong$....

$ell your ticket$!!!

Amazing that BV could still defend them... I never thought I'd say this but I am starting to think they should just stop this nonsense and hurting their legacy. What are they thinking. Mick come on already. You guys have written so many great songs and the shows they are putting on are becoming such a joke. Its a sad day for Stones fans.

Why is there so much outrage and shock over the Stones shortchanging the Chinese? Can we really be that surprised? The Stones are a billion dollar corporate enterprise, which means that if there is any opportunity to make easy $$$, they will jump at the bit and rightly so! They are VERY savvy businessmen, especially the one that got recently knighted. In the corporate world, fairness and social responsibility always take a back seat to earning profits. Didn't you guys know this? Please stop whining and complaining about the lack of ethics shown by the Stones in China. I don't blame them for shortchanging the Chinese if they are that stupid. I would have done the same thing! I congratulate Sir Mick and Co. for giving us a lesson on business savviness. I think Mick should teach Econ 101 at the LSE, he is so shrewd and wise. It's Only Rock and Roll, guys, don't take things so friggin' seriously. After all, we should all be so happy that Mick, Keith, Charlie, and Ronnie will be able to enjoy their retirements all the more luxuriously.

If they spent an extra 15 or so minutes performing,it would not have hurt their profits.

I kind of have a slightly new take on this after reading all the new comments. Like what "with sssoul" said and I said who really knows what kind of negotiations were going on behind the scenes. You have to find it VERY bizarre that in the most populated country in the world there were no giant stadium shows. I think the Government said a big COMMIE NO to the Stones for any Giant sized venue and offered the 8,000 seater or nothing.It was probably too late to do much about the giant stadium situation so Jagger settled on the theater. In the end, Jagger was feed up and pissed about all the rules so he just did a short show and said F - it, let's get out here !! Could have all gone down this way, who knows. Something weird happened.....

Also, have to agree with rooster on the Tibet issue, not any kind of way to behave and treat people like that...

One can only hope that when they come back to North America this year things will be better?

>> Something weird happened... <<

yeah ... obviously i don't know what went on either, but following all this sure has reminded me of ... of a lot.
some people here seem to be assuming the Stones were calling all the shots,
but those great big dead-serious Chinese-authority NOs can be so truly breath-taking,
in ways that are hard to imagine or anticipate until you're hit with a few of them.
it'll be really interesting, someday, to hear what went on.

>> Also, have to agree with Rooster on the Tibet issue <<

right. that's no way to get along, for sure.
sorry if my earlier post sounded in any way like i thought otherwise.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

The truth in all this will surface, like it always does. The most populated country in the world and the Stones play an 8000 seat theater, wonder what old fart Commie leader is pulling the strings on this one.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-04-12 13:56 by MicksBrain.

YOU - WHO DR STEPHANE, WHERE ARE YOU ?

Hey Stephane, here's the correct thread...oh dear, I think the lad needs some new glasses....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-04-12 14:00 by MicksBrain.