Ok some conversions for real time analalyzing:

1 US Gallon = 3.7854118 Liters

1 US Dollar = .824946378 Euros

Sladog...I have a degree in economics...it is only that simple if you only took an intro to economics.

it changes in Ohio. Right now it's about 2.39, it was up to 2.59 and it was as low as 2.23 maybe 10 days ago.

Gas here in the Detroit area is around $2.59 per gallon. And they are talking that we will hit over $3.00 by early Summer. I recently was introduced to product that helps me save between .25 and .50 per gallon. This really works. If you would like more information check out my website.

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sdstonesguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sladog...I have a degree in economics...it is only
> that simple if you only took an intro to
> economics.

Then you understand about the "invisible hand", the laws of suppy and demand and so on. Great!

I'm sure you also understand capitalism and the free markets right?

You know, you could compare the price of tickets to Stones shows with gas prices. If no one came to the Stones shows, they could not charge what they are. Fact is, because people will pay for these and other shows (Eagles for example), they can charge what they want.

Glad you understand.

Sladog...you seem to be upset that I disagree with you and your tone seems nasty (I hope I'm wrong)...so I'll just let it go. If I'm mistaken & you care to actually discuss this, I'm happy to do so.

I hope you didn't take my post as hostile...I mentioned that I have more than a class in econ. in response to your post about "if you take a course in econ...". To be honest, I have a feeling that his has little to do with econ. & much to do with our likely differing feelings on politics. If that is case...it is likely best for us to each let it go.

P.S. If it matters, I do not think capitalism works (naturally no actual capitalistic society could ever work...but that is beside the point) and I am not a fan of "free markets" as they only help non US countries...who pay their workers very little & often have poor working conditions. None of this actually has to do with gas though.

SD, I hope my post was not nasty. I didn't mean for it to be at all. Sorry if you took it that way. I was being a little sarcastic but not nasty.

I am happy to discuss it, though here may not be the best place as we could have a very good discussion however others will take it way the other way.

I would be interested in hearing why you think that free markets do not work when the US is a prime example of how they do and how the USSR is a great example of how Communism and Socialism do not work in the least.

The reason I beleive it has to do with gas prices is that many folks here were complaining how the oil companies are just getting richer and richer and how that is somewhat wrong and how it is so bad that gas prices are so high. I was alluding to the fact that without free markets, that is, with Govt. fixing of prices, we would be in worse shape such as the US was in back in the 70's when that was tried.

Anyway, if you wish to discuss, that's fine but as soon as the idiots chime in with f*** Bush and the the such, that will end it.

Cheers

I agree with most points made on this topic, Further as a rule i avoid talking politics in a social setting because of the differing of opinions (this may seem odd coming from a Poli Sci Masters student), but i have my opinions.
Anyway to the point: to my european friends, I realize you have always paid more for gasoline than we here in the colonies. However I was also under the impression that Europeans do not drive as much as Americans. I have been told Europeans prefer to take public transportation, and rather than driving from city to city will take the train or bus, or ride bikes or some other form of transportation. Is this true?
Btw i should mention that I drive a VW beetle, great gas mileage,since i moved I only need to fill up 1 every two weeks, its nice but i still watch gas prices in fury and anger. CUrrently here in Western Michigan (as of last night at least) gas prices were about $2.55. Ridiculous. I hope it ends up as Marx said and things become so expensive, and jobs become so poor paying that we can no longer afford to purchase the basic needed goods (such as gas) and the system collapses under its own weight. Theres supply and demand for you, supply outruns demand and the fat cats loose money and the people eventually take back this place for themselves.

Well, first off I don't think people who do not like Bush are idiots.

The USSR did not fall apart due to Communism (see China as an example of it working...not that I actually like Communism either), they did due to a closed society & unsustainable spending on their military (2 problems the US has now with the latter being done with both Bush & Reagan. One can argue the pros/cons of massive military buildup...but no matter what your view, it costs a lot...as our $8.3T debt suggests). Also, I'd say much of Europe is a great example of how socialism/capitalism combined does work quite well. Don't forget, the US does NOT have the highest standard of living in the world, which is kind of odd since we are BY FAR the richest...but I digress.

Regarding oil...it is fine that they make a profit...but to me...not fine that they make the largest profits ever AND get subsidies (ie my tax dollars...and yours). Do not forget that they claim that prices are high due to high costs...which just does not jive with the highest profits ever recorded. Now one can argue it is fine that they make these profits, but I am just pointing out that they are dishonest when discussing the reasons. I would MUCH rather have socialized oil in which we the people own the United States oil. This would allow Americans to spend money on oil & have it stay in the US and have much lower prices (no profit) which would mean consumers have more money to spend on other goods & services here in the US (the money multiplier suggest that this would be great for our economy). That aside, the reason I do not think oil can just rely on supply/demand is because it is a necessary product. In the same way electric companies can not charge whatever they want, oil should not be able to. If this was say peanut butter, a product people do not have to buy, then supply/demand works. Let me put it another way...water is becoming more & more privatized...should the price of water work on supply/demand? Of course not...you need it to live. Oil has the same situation...we need it for our military/police/public transportation/fire/medical/getting to/from work. If this was just a matter of using gas to take a vacation, then supply/demand would be fine...but it isn't. The high price of oil is actually hurting everyday citizens, the budget & the economy.

A short blurb on free markets: They help countries with low wages & few employee protections. They hurt economies like the US (see exporting of jobs and how the US economy is almost entirely service oriented...A BIG problem in economic downturns). Let's take Wal-Mart...almost all their goods are Chinese products. This means the US shoppers are sending their money to China, who make cheap products with their low wages & dangerous facilities (odd you don't like Communism but are ok with free markets that help it). We are seeing the same problems in Mexico, India, SE Asia, etc. BTW...do note I didn't bash Wal-Mart per se...so let's not make it a Wal-Mart discussion. I chose them b/c they control about 11% of the US economy according to a CNN article last month. Free Markets to say the UK? That's fine. Free to China? No thanks!

Free markets are fine if you want poor countries to get richer rich countries getting poorer The interesting thing about free markets is that it is rather liberal & yet dems often don't care for it & republicans love it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-03-23 03:22 by sdstonesguy.

Near Vancouver, gas has hit $1CDN/litre, which is approximately $3.25US per US gallon. I laugh when I see US news reports of how outraged people in the States are when gas goes up 10 cents per gallon. Here, gas was 85 cents/litre on March 4, which means prices have gone up 15 cents/litre or 50 cents/gallon in less than 3 weeks!

sd: "The high price of oil is actually hurting everyday citizens, the budget & the economy."

Actually, the US economy right now is doing very well. Great in fact.

sladog...i'm assuming you're looking at GDP which suggests it is doing fairly well. Mind you, much of the spending has been from low interest rates & thus refis of homes. Since I am looking at how the economy would be doing if it was self sustaining (ie not running an enormous deficit), which would be not so hot. If you looked at it in terms of actually paying off debt (which many of us citizens do all the time), it would be even worse.

Besides...I said hi oil prices are hurting citizens, the budget & the economy. If your view is that the economy is doing great...that doesn't change the fact that high oil is still hurting it (ie it would be doing better). We have a record debt, a record deficit, a record trading deficit, record oil prices & high heating oil prices (although not that high this winter due to a warm winter). Those are not good things to me.

sdstonesguy, I don't know why people argue with you cause you know your stuff inside out. Did you catch the last 2 days of "Open Audience Questions" and speeches? The Kings got everybody afraid to challenge him - no hardball questions - scary situation we're in....

Forget the political discussion. Or I would have to close this thread. I think petrol/gasoline cost the same all over Europe. The politicians need money for their budgets, and they try to get rid of CO2 - ask the inuits where they live in 50 years time - so you just have to adjust to high oil prices. Plus it is a limited resource of course. many people forgt it's been there for thousands of years, and now we have a big party burning it all in less than a decade... Yes I am a fan of public transportation. It is cheap, fast and on time. And I own two cars because I am spoiled and have double moral like everybody else.

Bjornulf