Instead of the usual, include a bunch of ABB live cuts in a big box set with their greatest live recordings since the beginning of the band - something similar the Springsteen live box. They could easily fill up about four discs and sell the usual number of copies to us fanatics...

I've an even better idea for an ABB live album - dont release one.

But you probably love crappy sounding bootlegs...never understood that. I like the live albums. Why does everyone put them down?

because there are so many of them, and they never do them properly. And they sell embarrassingly badly.

at least if I acquire a bootleg, I know what I'm getting

In the age of DVDs, having a live album as a 'souvenir' from a tour is old-hat and a pointless cash-in or contractual obligation exercise. The Licks tour was covered perfectly on the magnifcent "Four Flicks" (the best release in any form that the Stones have put out in the last 25 years). Releasing a condensed version of it (with several of the songs butchered) a YEAR later was idiotic and the most pointless release of the band's career. And its quite obvious that they never even bothered to listen to it in advance of its release either.

Imagine instead of releasing Licks, they put out the entire Madison Sq Garden show...or even better, the Toronto club gig--both of which circulated as boots with pristine sound...

the vaults are screaming..........LET US OUT!!!!.........what the heck are they waiting for, senility to set in



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-25 22:43 by Leonard Keringer.

troubador Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imagine instead of releasing Licks, they put out
> the entire Madison Sq Garden show...or even
> better, the Toronto club gig--both of which
> circulated as boots with pristine sound...


complete, unedited shows from the vaults is a much more appealing option.

I wouldnt agree that they should have put out Palais Royale however just because there happens to be a bootleg soundboard of it. There are soundboards made of EVERY show, thats just one that happens to be in circulation. It certainly wouldnt have made sense to release it however as its obviously a rough rehearsal and the performances were so much better after the tour started

"Live Lick" WAS the pentultimate peace of crap so there is nowhere to go but up. I'm guessing we'll see CD/DVD combo, like Green Day's recent tour memento, of the Rio show.

Yeah that would rock! who wants to buy the cd and DVD seperate. What a rip

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've an even better idea for an ABB live album -
> dont release one.


You tell me that you wouldn't like it if they compiled the best versions of ABB songs? I mean if they played all (or most) songs from it at the end of the tour and released it on a live album with ABB songs ONLY. Wouldn't you like that?

JumpingKentFlash

No...I dont think the world needs another Rolling Stones live album. Other bands dont feel the need to put a live album out at the end of every tour. Why do the Stones?

Sorry, but I dont feel that I should just be delighted at the fact they release just ANYTHING. They clearly didnt even LISTEN to their last live album before sanctioning its release (as evidenced by the way its been butchered) - if they display such a level of couldnt care less attitude towards a product released in their name, why should I be excited about it? That cock-up should have proved once and for all to even their most ardent apologists that the live albums idea has been flogged to death and should now be given a decent burial.

The Stones have put out a live album after every world tour theyve done in the last 30 years. The last two they released have been the worst selling albums of their career. If that doesnt speak volumes that the concept has been done to death, I dont know what does.

In the last 3 decades (especially since the early 90s) only a small percentage of albums sanctioned by release by the Stones have not been either compilations or live albums from their latest tour

Albums released since IORR (in 1974, which was their 4th release (all studio) on Rolling Stones Records):

Studio albums - 10 (only 5 in the last 20 years)
Compilations of post-1970 material : 7 (theyve only done 14 studio albums since they left Decca, yet have repackaged that material 7 times!)
Live albums : 6

Basically - I'm tired of repackages and cash-ins. There are too many of them both.

And an album exclusively consisting of live versions of the same songs on their last studio album is a ludicrous idea. If ABB sold so poorly, who the hell is going to buy a live album consisting of the same songs? More embarrassingly low sales.

Releasing a series of material from the vaults isnt bound by the same pressures or expectancy regarding sales and chart positions as a release of new studio material (or material from a current tour) would be. If its marketed as an "archive" release (and maybe sold through their website - it HAS to be good for something, after all) its viewed in a different light (look at the favourable reviews and decent sales Dylan got for his Bootleg Series project. Yet - unlike the Stones - no one complains that Dylan has so many live albums, even though most tours have now been covered up to 1984. Simply because so many of them have been released 30-40 years after the event as an "archive" release and not as a souvenir of a just finished tour)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-26 19:01 by Gazza.

oh - I thought this was gonna be about a new Allmans Brothers Band live album.

live licks was crap because they did not work on it properly. I would like to see all the rare songs like sway put out as well as the new tunes from ABB and have the group really get into the project and really put out something special. It seems that the international crowds get really crazy and get good performances out of the group. I would like to here some stuff from Rio. Having said that, I have to believe that there has to be really good cuts from this whole tour from all over the world (esp to come) to put together a great disc. I will buy it!

Gazza, I fully agree with you. A new live album would not make any sense. A complete ABB show - too many warhorses and repetitions of past live albums. A rarities package with lesser exploited songs like As Tears Go By, She's So Cold, All Down The Line & the like - this idea failed miserably in commercial terms when they did the "No Security" album, so they won't even consider to do it again, although it would make sense for us fans. Another "Greatest Hits" live album? Sorry, please no. Forget it. I would buy it to complete my collection, but that's the only reason. And a live album consisting of ABB tracks ? First, there aren't that many that have been performed yet. Second, apart from Back Of My Hand which has a completely different arangement than the studio version, did any of the other ABB tracks performed so far add anything to the original studio versions? It's not 1969 anymore when live renditions of then-recent material like Sympathy, Rambler, Stray Cat Blues, Love In Vain sounded remarkably different from their studio origins. That's why Get Yer Ya Ya's Out is so exciting. And that's why a live album of ABB tracks would bore me to death (Back Of My Hand aside).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-26 21:31 by retired_dog.

I'd probably buy it too (I bought Live Licks eventually..when it was in the bargain bins a few weeks later and at the price it deserved to be ..first time I havent bought a new Stones album on the day of release since 1978) - however I doubt I'll be excited about it.

Some of Live Licks is actually pretty good (Thats How Strong My Love Is, Neighbours, Rock Me Baby etc) and the sound on it is very good - doesnt take away from the fact that as a release, its pointless.

It's true that the live versions are very much alike the studio versions nowadays. We've heard it a thousand times before. But, if the band continue to put out live records from every tour, they would certainly have a lot of holes to fill to complete their live history! Maybe it's part of their pension plan
Hopefully they will open up the valuts some day, and release a live album from the 1970 european tour, the 1971 British tour, the 1972 American tour...etc.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh - I thought this was gonna be about a new
> Allmans Brothers Band live album.

LOL - brilliant!

Gazza, I certainly agree with you that several of the songs on Live Licks were butchered, and that it shows an appalling level of apathy by the band to put out such a sloppy package. But I don't agree that because there've been more live albums and compilations than studio albums in the last 30 years that live albums or compilations are somehow a bad thing.

If all of the live albums/compilations had been handled well (some were, some weren't), they would have all been welcome. I don't want to see another Live Licks after this tour, but would like to see something along the lines of what's been discussed in this thread, which is a disc of rarely played songs from this tour, plus some archival material, all in a boxed set. God knows there is enough great stuff in the archives for several excellent boxed sets.

I don't understand why you are so focused on the sales. So what if the last two live albums have been the worst selling of their career? I don't care who else buys the albums, as long as I and the other hardcore fans can get them.

I suppose it could be argued that low sales "make the Stones look bad," but let's face it, at this point no matter what people think of them, they are going to do the same thing they'd do even if everyone loved them: tour as long as they can, as long as Mick and Keith are alive and able.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-27 00:31 by ohnonotyouagain.

It might be time for a disc consisting of live rehearsals only.I think that would be interesting.Dual disc cd/dvd.If it is an "in concert" disc,I would vote for Midnight Rambler,She's So Cold,As Tears Go By,Love Is Strong,Jumping Jack Flash,Sway and as many new songs as possible.

ohnonotyouagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't understand why you are so focused on the
> sales. So what if the last two live albums have
> been the worst selling of their career? I don't
> care who else buys the albums, as long as I and
> the other hardcore fans can get them.


Pride. No one likes to see a Stones album selling poorly. It's embarrassing for "the greatest rock n roll band in the world" to play to millions of fans around the globe and then release a souvenir of the tour that doesnt even sell 100,000 copies and is gone from the charts in two weeks.

Its quite clear from sales of those last two live albums that most 'fans' dont want them and dont care for them. If five million people watch a Stones show in the space of 12 months and presumably 90-95% of them thought it was a great night's entertainment, wouldnt you think it reasonable to expect that a lot more than 2% of that number would buy a live album from the tour which costs them a tiny fraction of their ticket price?

My suggestion would be to take the sales issue out of the equation and sell archive releases (or even new live releases) through their website (see Pete Townshend's site for a similar concept). They could also sell a live album from the tour exclusively at their shows (remember they did this with a video release on the Voodoo Lounge tour).

At least it would entice some of these people who go to shows to see them as a musical act and not primarily as an overpriced T-shirt and kitsch franchise who occasionally make records.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-27 01:07 by Gazza.

I have a hard time understanding why people would choose NO live album? Sure I prefer a raping of their vaults to a new live lp, but if this is all they're going to release, I'll still buy it and enjoy that I've got a professionally recorded document of this tour to go w/all my boots! Hell, they might even put SWAY on it. Maybe that would make some of you HAPPY!

Professionally recorded - let's hope that it is professionally edited as well - unlike last time.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ohnonotyouagain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I don't understand why you are so focused on
> the
> > sales. So what if the last two live albums
> have
> > been the worst selling of their career? I
> don't
> > care who else buys the albums, as long as I
> and
> > the other hardcore fans can get them.
>
>
> Pride. No one likes to see a Stones album selling
> poorly. It's embarrassing for "the greatest rock n
> roll band in the world" to play to millions of
> fans around the globe and then release a souvenir
> of the tour that doesnt even sell 100,000 copies
> and is gone from the charts in two weeks.
>
> Its quite clear from sales of those last two live
> albums that most 'fans' dont want them and dont
> care for them. If five million people watch a
> Stones show in the space of 12 months and
> presumably 90-95% of them thought it was a great
> night's entertainment, wouldnt you think it
> reasonable to expect that a lot more than 2% of
> that number would buy a live album from the tour
> which costs them a tiny fraction of their ticket
> price?
>
> My suggestion would be to take the sales issue out
> of the equation and sell archive releases (or even
> new live releases) through their website (see Pete
> Townshend's site for a similar concept). They
> could also sell a live album from the tour
> exclusively at their shows (remember they did this
> with a video release on the Voodoo Lounge tour).
>
> At least it would entice some of these people who
> go to shows to see them as a musical act and not
> primarily as an overpriced T-shirt and kitsch
> franchise who occasionally make records.
>
>

Whether or not people see them as an overpriced T-shirt and kitsch franchise who occasionally make records, that's not so far from the truth. It's not the whole truth, but it's not so far from it. I've accepted the Stones for what they are these days and enjoy them on that level. Everybody can't be Dylan or Springsteen; those guys are two very rare examples of a very high level of rock integrity.

Professionally recorded - let's hope that it is professionally edited as well - unlike last time.

Professionally recorded - let's hope that it is professionally edited as well - unlike last time.

Pete

The point is that for me, as a fan, the Rolling Stones - as the greatest rock n roll band in the world - stand (or SHOULD stand) for excellence in music and high standards of professionalism

had they displayed a couldnt-care less attitude to their art throughout their career they wouldnt have lasted as long as they have.

A professional attitude made them great. In the last few years, theyve developed a very lackadaisical attitude towards "product" issued under their name, specifically regarding endless and pointless repackages of old material and a shoddy attitude towards live albums.

In 2004, they sanctioned the release of a live album that they didnt even listen to before approving its release and which consisted almost entirely of songs which had been released on a DVD 12 months earlier. Last year, they authorized another repackage of old material called "Rarities" which, going by the title, sounded promising, but which in the end included several songs which were easily available on regular albums - albums which had sold millions more copies than the "Rarities" album on which they were repackaged. And dont get me started on the fúcking sleevenotes!

You, and others, may find such releases worthy of excitement. I find them to show an alarming drop in quality control. Rather than just clap my hands and applaud the release of any product that has the name "Rolling Stones" on it, I expect higher standards from my favourite band than that.

If that unprofessional attitude is going to be the norm for releasing live albums or compilations, then, yes, I'd prefer them not to bother if they're not going to do it properly.

Thankfully, they're still able to make very good studio albums and put on excellent concerts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-27 01:23 by Gazza.

Point well taken Gazza. They're lack of caring w/ certain projects is highly annoying! Hopefully they'll give whatever they release the 4 FLICKS treatment which I really loved.

ohnonotyouagain Wrote:
> Whether or not people see them as an overpriced
> T-shirt and kitsch franchise who occasionally make
> records, that's not so far from the truth. It's
> not the whole truth, but it's not so far from it.

correct, its not the whole truth, but theres an element of that


> I've accepted the Stones for what they are these
> days and enjoy them on that level.

thats where we differ. I find it disappointing that theyve lowered themselves to that level. Theyre still a great band, but the music should take preference. I still enjoy their new music and latest concerts but that doesnt mean to say I approve of other aspects of their attitude towards their art.

Everybody can't
> be Dylan or Springsteen; those guys are two very
> rare examples of a very high level of rock
> integrity.

Why not? It would be so much more preferable if they had a similar work ethic. Nothing to prevent them if they wanted to.

DrPete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Point well taken Gazza. They're lack of caring w/
> certain projects is highly annoying! Hopefully
> they'll give whatever they release the 4 FLICKS
> treatment which I really loved.


Four Flicks was the perfect souvenir from a brilliant tour. The best 'live' DVD package ever released by anyone and unquestionably the best release the Stones have put out in any form since "Some Girls". A brilliantly assembled package with fantastic performances. 10/10.

When it came out, another reason why I was so pleased with it was because I thought theyd finally woke up to the fact that for a tour 'souvenir' THIS release was all that was needed. It covered all bases and kept everyne happy. The fans and critics loved it and the sales were excellent. They'd obviously realised that the live album cash-in was superfluous.

then a year later they release an edited audio version of it....Grrrr...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-27 01:34 by Gazza.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd probably buy it too (I bought Live Licks
> eventually..when it was in the bargain bins a few
> weeks later and at the price it deserved to be
> ..first time I havent bought a new Stones album on
> the day of release since 1978) - however I doubt
> I'll be excited about it.
>
> Some of Live Licks is actually pretty good (Thats
> How Strong My Love Is, Neighbours, Rock Me Baby
> etc) and the sound on it is very good - doesnt
> take away from the fact that as a release, its
> pointless.

I thought it was ok. It came out when I was a rather casual fan, but i enjoyed it.