The record-buying public has no taste - this is now confirmed. I hope the Stones don't stop putting out new tunes because they can't compete on the charts with...Barry Manilow!

WTF???!!!

I give up! Going to go play a Bigger Bang...

pathetic....true enough.......surprising....unfortunately no.........here's a cd/song title for ya: The Gospel According to the Masses" aka "Sheep Tonight"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-12 00:46 by Leonard Keringer.

Barry Manilow once again rising to number one on the charts is a sure sign of the apocalypse. Everyone be extra careful today; be on the lookout for plagues of locusts!

Rough Justice indeed...

If Barry Manilow can outsell the Rolling Stones then I am BEGGING them...please stop.

Some people here think record sales and awards don't matter, but those people live alone in an ice bubble on Pluto. The Rolling Stones don't exist in a vacuum for our pleasure. I think their set-lists and '"Rarities"' prove that.

Also, after the barrage of mean, vicious comments about their Super Bowl performance from the public and the media, I hope they realize it's over.

Mick once said when asked about when he would know it was time to quit and he said something like, "I don't know...you'll just know."

You haven't had a number one album in 25 years...haven't had a hit in 17 years...Paul McCartney gets mutiple Grammy nominations, you get one...your first album in 8 years doesn't even sell 500, 000 copies in 6 months and tanks...the music industry and press hate you...and people had rather listen to BARRY MANILOW than you.

What more do you want...a sign directly from God?

IT'S OVER.

they're not "competing" with Barry Manilow, because I would imagine there are very few people who would potentially buy the records of both artists

Hardly the same market.

the fact that other styles of music (albeit a crap one in this case) should also be popular in a diverse country of 300 million people isnt really earth-shattering. You'll get dross selling well in any country, as well as good music that doesnt.

Barry Manylow fans don't know how to download.

This is nor fair to say, so they are probable to honest.

Nico

__________________________

aww come on lads, old Barry's not so bad. Whats he number one with anyway -is it one of his old 'classics' or a new cool tune..you know in the UK we have had 'road to Amarillo' shoved down our throats for the last 6 months -surely old Bazz cant be worse than that.

'at the Copa, Copacabana' - come on singalong you know you love it really.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they're not "competing" with Barry Manilow,
> because I would imagine there are very few people
> who would potentially buy the records of both
> artists
>
> Hardly the same market.
>
> the fact that other styles of music (albeit a crap
> one in this case) should also be popular in a
> diverse country of 300 million people isnt really
> earth-shattering. You'll get dross selling well in
> any country, as well as good music that doesnt.
>
>

Exactly. They were outsold by the Monkees for several years in the '60s. Crap always sells, but who cares?

The fact of the matter is....Barry Manilow and Bon Jovi have #1 albums...not exactly new artists...but what is supposedly the most famous act in the world can't sell a half a million albums in the U. S (out of 300 MILLION people)?

The Super Bowl left their legacy in tatters (70% of viewers gave it a C or below...with 40% giving it an F? I KNEW that would be the reaction. I don't know why Mick thought they'd be embraced). It certainly didn't bring in new fans or album sales. It turned OFF more people than anything else (still not sure why).

I'm just saying that while they still have a SHRED of a legacy left...they should stop. The general public, the music industry and the media really, really HATE them.

Jack Knife Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> I'm just saying that while they still have a SHRED
> of a legacy left...they should stop. The general
> public, the music industry and the media really,
> really HATE them.

i'd say they have a tad more than a shred of legacy left (in fact, they have a rich, historical legacy that cannot be touched by any other band).............as for the music industrial wasteland and media....they're not fit to lick the Stones ass...........and the general public will always be the general public (no cure for that)

Jack Knife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It certainly didn't bring in new fans or album
> sales. It turned OFF more people than anything
> else (still not sure why).
>

The new charts aren't out, yet. Moreover, the Stones have never been that popular with the great masses - and certainly the people that are watching the Superbowl are the lowest common denominator in terms of music knowledge/taste. Should they have pandered by playing a Manilow song??

The problem with the Stones are the lead singles, SOL was embarrassing and they know it (55 shows played, SOL 0) and the people is getting away from them. The marketing behind this album was the most pathetic ever, including a bad release date, a terrible single choice, a ridiculous "Exile" comparisons & tickets prices. Since 1999 they're throwing the legacy in the toilet.

If they want to make a comeback, the first thing to do is change the record company (everyone flops with Virgin), drop the tickets prices 30-40%, hire a decent producer (Rick Rubin or guys with ideas) and make a BIG ALBUM, 11 songs max. with production and a cohesive work, drop the dance and the funky and bring the emotion to the songs, 3-4 rockers, 3-4 mid tempos and 3-4 touching ballads but GOOD ones. They will get respect with a respectable work, the critics will go crazy seeing a work like this, we will love them for making the best that they can do and the buying public will respond.
It's a real shame for the Stones that they didn't generated a SINGLE classic since 1981, I can't think on another case like this, a band that didn't put 1 CLASSIC out of 6 albums since 1983.

The album is fine, IMO, but everything else youve said is spot on

I like ABB, it's a good album but songs like RFD, SOL, Neocon are easy targets for everyone, fans or critics and even worse if they release these songs as singles. It hurts the rest of the album.
They need a new Sticky Fingers style of album, a work with emotion and passion and not a new Exile or Some Girls. Mick needs to clear his mind and write good lyrics, his lyric work on ABB was pretty ridiculous.

I just saw Debra Wilson and some other guy (John somebody) trashing the Rolling Stones' Super Bowl performance, the Stones' ages, how horrible they looked, etc. on their TV Guide Channel show 'Water Cooler.'

I knew this would happen. I haven't heard or read a positive word from anyone on television or in print yet (other than one or two in the print media). They're the punchline to a joke again...nothing more. John called their performance "Sad, sad, sad." At least he knew a Stones reference other than "Satisfaction"!

Also, I don't think the Rolling Stones (i. e., Mick) care enough to really work hard and make a great album. It's easier to write a bunch of mediocre songs quickly, record them quickly, then get out there and make a ton of money off the past using the new record as an excuse.

How many copies did Manilow sell then?

maybe there is a need of his muzak for elevators and shopping malls

georgelicks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like ABB, it's a good album but songs like RFD,
> SOL, Neocon are easy targets for everyone, fans or
> critics and even worse if they release these songs
> as singles.

their choice of singles is horrendous. Rain fall Down isnt a bad track, however SOL is an awful selection to mark your return after 8 years. What must people have thought? Neocon is just an awful song. End of story


It hurts the rest of the album.

true...the public reaction to SOL cant have enticed them to buy the album


> They need a new Sticky Fingers style of album, a
> work with emotion and passion and not a new Exile
> or Some Girls. Mick needs to clear his mind and
> write good lyrics, his lyric work on ABB was
> pretty ridiculous.

I dunno. Aside from SOL, ONNYA and Neocon, I thought his lyrics showed a maturity that had been lacking in some time and were some of his best in quite a while.

>>Also, I don't think the Rolling Stones (i. e., Mick) care enough to really work hard and make a great album. It's easier to write a bunch of mediocre songs quickly, record them quickly, then get out there and make a ton of money off the past using the new record as an excuse.


That's the MAIN problem (and the tickets prices is ANOTHER big problem too). They did this album in two cumulative months, the mix in 2 weeks and Ronnie did all his work in 4 days, come on.
And for the tour, I bet my ass that if they charge $40-150 dollars in a new tour (arenas or stadiums) the crowd will be filled with casual and young fans again. If AC/DC or Aerosmith can attract 50% of people under their 30's with reasonable ticket prices, why the hell not the Stones?

>>>true...the public reaction to SOL cant have enticed them to buy the album

In a music forum with over 10,000 voters, SOL was named the 2nd worst UK single of 2005 in a list of 20. Only the Crazy Frog theme surpassed them.


>>I dunno. Aside from SOL, ONNYA and Neocon, I thought his lyrics showed a maturity that had been lacking in some time and were some of his best in quite a while.

Maybe, but he writes with his dick in almost all the record and the people wants to hear about other things too. But, we all know Mick and he always wrote about girls, the difference now is his current age.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-23 01:32 by cirrhosis.

Can we stop the bashing please? ABB is great and I'm glad they put it out. I'm looking forward to see them.

Jack Knife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Super Bowl left their legacy in tatters (70%
> of viewers gave it a C or below...with 40% giving
> it an F?

where did these stats come from?

The mainstream media did not trash ABB. Rolling Stone had it no. 2 in its list of albums of the year.

Barry Manilow no. 1 on U.S. Charts... So what?

His album, "The Greatest Songs of the Fifties", i suppose includes old stuff. Covers? I don't know and i don't care. But probably it's old stuff. It's sales: 156,000 units. All this moaning for 156,000 sales ... As you know in the last years old stuff sells very well in the USA (perhaps not only there). The last "old stuff" album of the Stones, "40Licks", had sold 310,000 units during it's first week. ABB includes new stuff. How can we draw comparisons mixing these two categories (new records- old, stuff & compilations) of albums?

Is the nagging something like way of life for the Stones fans in this board ?? ABB sells very well worldwide. Why the hell some people are thinking that USA is the one and only music market in the planet? ABB sells poorly in the States of course, judjing with the measures of the Stones. There are particular reasons for that. One of them is "Neo- Con": The song obviously brings anger to a part of the media and for sure to Clear Channel Communications. This factor of course brings exremely poor airplay and some bad reviews. Only a blind or a stupid guy cannot see this fact which, in my opinion, is bad for their sales but very good for their reputation as a band who still says something serious and "bothersome".
But even under these conditions, who believes that a total number of sales 650,000 - 700,000 copies nowadays would be a disaster? How many copies have sold the last albums of Oasis, Pearl Jam, Simple Minds in the USA?

Jack Knife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Barry Manilow can outsell the Rolling Stones
> then I am BEGGING them...please stop.
>
> Some people here think record sales and awards
> don't matter, but those people live alone in an
> ice bubble on Pluto. The Rolling Stones don't
> exist in a vacuum for our pleasure. I think their
> set-lists and '"Rarities"' prove that.
>
> Also, after the barrage of mean, vicious comments
> about their Super Bowl performance from the public
> and the media, I hope they realize it's over.
>
> Mick once said when asked about when he would know
> it was time to quit and he said something like, "I
> don't know...you'll just know."
>
> You haven't had a number one album in 25
> years...haven't had a hit in 17 years...Paul
> McCartney gets mutiple Grammy nominations, you get
> one...your first album in 8 years doesn't even
> sell 500, 000 copies in 6 months and tanks...the
> music industry and press hate you...and people had
> rather listen to BARRY MANILOW than you.
>
> What more do you want...a sign directly from God?
>
> IT'S OVER.


You know what is so funny about all this " the Stones have finished" threads ?

That we can find the same comments almost 10 years ago....and 20 years ago...and also 30 years ago...but what happens ?
The truth is that the Rolling Stones in 2006 are still "successful" enough to break new records in Rock history....a new record which is judged as very good by people who know about music...and a massive world tour again.

Jack Knife wrote : "The Super Bowl left their legacy in tatters (70% of viewers gave it a C or below...with 40% giving it an F? I KNEW that would be the reaction. I don't know why Mick thought they'd be embraced). It certainly didn't bring in new fans or album sales. It turned OFF more people than anything else (still not sure why). I'm just saying that while they still have a SHRED of a legacy left...they should stop. The general public, the music industry and the media really, really HATE them."


There were a lot of polls, with different results. All of them, of course, with the footnote "are not conducted in a scientific fashion". I just saw the results of NBC4. A=19%, B=11%, C=18%, D=22%, F=30%. A-C= 48%. If you consider these results as discouraging, sorry, in my opinion you are 105% wrong. I say these are marvellous results! Man, we have not elections here. We have a huge public who takes an interest in football, not neccessary in music. And the people who are interested in the music have of course various tastes, especially in the USA where pop, country and hip hop are more popular than rock. A person who don't like the Stones music, with these polls has the opportunity to express his preference, not his opinion about the quality of the performance. If i don't like MC Hammer, what could vote after a MC Hammer's performance?


Jack Knife, if the Stones were performing at Super Bowl in 1972 or 1975, their percentages would be much more lower! Why? Because then they were less acceptable by the older people. So simple. "General public" means nothing when we are talking about music and about the Stones. At the end of this tour the Stones will have attract more than 1.5 million of people in the USA and about 5 million worlwide. According to your logic, we will have a "disaster", because these numbers are making a weakest minority in the States and in the whole planet...

Jack Knife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Barry Manilow can outsell the Rolling Stones
> then I am BEGGING them...please stop.
>
> Some people here think record sales and awards
> don't matter, but those people live alone in an
> ice bubble on Pluto. The Rolling Stones don't
> exist in a vacuum for our pleasure. I think their
> set-lists and '"Rarities"' prove that.
>
> Also, after the barrage of mean, vicious comments
> about their Super Bowl performance from the public
> and the media, I hope they realize it's over.
>
> Mick once said when asked about when he would know
> it was time to quit and he said something like, "I
> don't know...you'll just know."
>
> You haven't had a number one album in 25
> years...haven't had a hit in 17 years...Paul
> McCartney gets mutiple Grammy nominations, you get
> one...your first album in 8 years doesn't even
> sell 500, 000 copies in 6 months and tanks...the
> music industry and press hate you...and people had
> rather listen to BARRY MANILOW than you.
>
> What more do you want...a sign directly from God?
>
> IT'S OVER.
>
>
Umm mayby record sales have not been great but christ look at ticket sales have been fantastic. when this tourr is over it will most likley be the highest grossing tour ever by any band, Can Barry Manilow sell out stadiums? of course not and I don't see throwing Macca in the comparising either his latest record flopped much worse then ABB in sales so wtf? Screw the critics play for yourselves.

georgelicks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a real shame for the Stones that they didn't
> generated a SINGLE classic since 1981, I can't
> think on another case like this, a band that
> didn't put 1 CLASSIC out of 6 albums since 1983.


And we, hard-core fans, still claim they are the number 1 band in the world and keep on bashing (I don't understand why) on bands like U2.