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Sighunt

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Mathijs

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The Joker

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IrelandCalling4

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Sighunt
Boy, when i see this, how I would love to acquire a complete professionally shot 69 show of the Stones at the Garden before I leave this world. Such a shame that what's left over from what the Maysles filmed is just sitting in a vault somewhere gathering dust...

I know, how we all wish we could see that footage. Knowing that there exists a full show (or shows, surely) from 1969, and we may never get to see them. At this point the only people interested would be the super fans, but for us super fans, it would mean the world. Any proshot footage from those years (besides the already released), 1969-1972, would be gold.

I don't understand why they wait to release it. Most of the hardcore buyers will be ashes in 20 years...

According to the Maysles brothers they did not film complete shows. The tape canisters needed reloading every couple of minutes, so they made storyboards of when all the cameras would film and when not, to change the tape canister. They used Baltimore and a try out, they filmed parts of Miami as well, and decided to stay until Altamont to film some more additional footage.

Further, there likely do not exist many more film outtakes as the procedure back then was editing by actually cutting the tape with scissors and pasting it back, and all the outtakes were dropped to the floor and then discarded. So the outtakes that are available are mostly single camera shots that were not used for the movie.

Mathijs

This is a very interesting discussion.When I developed the petition to release the complete audio tracks of the MSG shows, I received a couple of e-mails from Stones fans who attended the private/paid event in the mid 2000's in New York where the last living Maysle brother Albert showed footage of the Stones at MSG 69 that didn't make it in the film and both of these folks claim there was just enough footage (plus what has already been released in Gimme Shelter) to make up (just about) a complete show. That is why I opted in the petition to include the video with the audio. Now I don't know if these folks were bullshitting me or what but that was what was told to me.

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Sighunt

Just as a follow-up to this conversation, I received an e-mail from former IORR poster, Tim aka Plexi who saw this thread and clarified to me that Doug Potash (Stones Doug), founder and head of Shidoobee, told Plexi per his conversation with Albert Maysles that ALL MSG shows were filmed in their entirety. Doug was the one who organized the event with Albert Maysles in the mid 2000's.

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Mathijs

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Sighunt

Just as a follow-up to this conversation, I received an e-mail from former IORR poster, Tim aka Plexi who saw this thread and clarified to me that Doug Potash (Stones Doug), founder and head of Shidoobee, told Plexi per his conversation with Albert Maysles that ALL MSG shows were filmed in their entirety. Doug was the one who organized the event with Albert Maysles in the mid 2000's.

This is not what Maysles have been stating in various interviews, and not according to what was technically possible at the time. They used Eclair NPR cameras with Eastman ECO 7255 reels, exactly the same as for Woodstock. The cameras operated in sync, with a maximum of 8 minutes reel time. Hence, after 8 minutes all cameras had to reload the reel canisters, which took about two minutes. So, of every 80 minutes concert between 15 and 20 minutes would not be filmed. This was exactly the same for Woodstock.

Mathijs

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Sighunt

Very interesting. There is certainly a lot of credibility to what you report. It is not my intention to lead people on with false information. I just reported what has been told to me and shared it. The last thing I want to do is give people false hope about what MSG footage exists or not. And if I did so, i will apologize to the whole Stones fan community who visit this site. Sighunt is a stand-up guy!

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Mathijs

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Sighunt

Just as a follow-up to this conversation, I received an e-mail from former IORR poster, Tim aka Plexi who saw this thread and clarified to me that Doug Potash (Stones Doug), founder and head of Shidoobee, told Plexi per his conversation with Albert Maysles that ALL MSG shows were filmed in their entirety. Doug was the one who organized the event with Albert Maysles in the mid 2000's.

This is not what Maysles have been stating in various interviews, and not according to what was technically possible at the time. They used Eclair NPR cameras with Eastman ECO 7255 reels, exactly the same as for Woodstock. The cameras operated in sync, with a maximum of 8 minutes reel time. Hence, after 8 minutes all cameras had to reload the reel canisters, which took about two minutes. So, of every 80 minutes concert between 15 and 20 minutes would not be filmed. This was exactly the same for Woodstock.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Sighunt

Very interesting. There is certainly a lot of credibility to what you report. It is not my intention to lead people on with false information. I just reported what has been told to me and shared it. The last thing I want to do is give people false hope about what MSG footage exists or not. And if I did so, i will apologize to the whole Stones fan community who visit this site. Sighunt is a stand-up guy!

Fully understood, and thanks for all your information. In this case I sure hope that I will be proven wrong and that a full MSG shows exists!

And, there is a lot of conflicting information. For example, George Lucas filmed the overview shots from the back of the Altamont terrain, and is credited as camera man. Later information is that his camera jammed from the first moment on and that no footage shot by him was used. But there clearly are shots from the back in the Gimme Shelter...

Mathijs

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Sighunt


One of the folks acted like he was privy to some top secret govt. info and told me he was sworn to secrecy (seriously) and chose not to divulge any info about it.

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NashvilleBlues

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Mathijs

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Sighunt

Just as a follow-up to this conversation, I received an e-mail from former IORR poster, Tim aka Plexi who saw this thread and clarified to me that Doug Potash (Stones Doug), founder and head of Shidoobee, told Plexi per his conversation with Albert Maysles that ALL MSG shows were filmed in their entirety. Doug was the one who organized the event with Albert Maysles in the mid 2000's.

This is not what Maysles have been stating in various interviews, and not according to what was technically possible at the time. They used Eclair NPR cameras with Eastman ECO 7255 reels, exactly the same as for Woodstock. The cameras operated in sync, with a maximum of 8 minutes reel time. Hence, after 8 minutes all cameras had to reload the reel canisters, which took about two minutes. So, of every 80 minutes concert between 15 and 20 minutes would not be filmed. This was exactly the same for Woodstock.

Mathijs

In order to prevent the gaps, why didn’t they stagger when each camera started so that there would never be any gaps? Was recording all cameras in sync more important than getting all the footage? It seems stupid to a layperson like me.

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Mathijs

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NashvilleBlues

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Mathijs

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Sighunt

Just as a follow-up to this conversation, I received an e-mail from former IORR poster, Tim aka Plexi who saw this thread and clarified to me that Doug Potash (Stones Doug), founder and head of Shidoobee, told Plexi per his conversation with Albert Maysles that ALL MSG shows were filmed in their entirety. Doug was the one who organized the event with Albert Maysles in the mid 2000's.

This is not what Maysles have been stating in various interviews, and not according to what was technically possible at the time. They used Eclair NPR cameras with Eastman ECO 7255 reels, exactly the same as for Woodstock. The cameras operated in sync, with a maximum of 8 minutes reel time. Hence, after 8 minutes all cameras had to reload the reel canisters, which took about two minutes. So, of every 80 minutes concert between 15 and 20 minutes would not be filmed. This was exactly the same for Woodstock.

Mathijs

In order to prevent the gaps, why didn’t they stagger when each camera started so that there would never be any gaps? Was recording all cameras in sync more important than getting all the footage? It seems stupid to a layperson like me.

Because those old analog camera's need to have their tape speeds in sync, or else it is impossible to edit the various shots together to form one movie. It further is impossible to add the music to it, which is recorded separately. The tape rotor speed is synced via a cable to an electric motor which is synced by the power supply's frequency.

Mathijs

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automaticchanger
Yes, Sony Portapak video cameras were available, which used 1/2" open reel black and white videotape. This is what was used for the Detroit video, as well as the LA forum footage and Ira Schneider's amateur Altamont recordings. Unfortunately the low resolution of the image was significant enough to be banned by networks, which led to the development of public access television, like WABX Tubeworks in Detroit that originally shot and broadcast a few songs from Detroit.

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automaticchanger
You could get about an hour on the tapes, so combination tape/battery reasons, yes. The Portapak Altamont footage was shot by Ira Schneider, an early video artist from NY - no affiliation with the official Maysles footage or any of the other film sources.