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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

According to Keith, Mick wanted to sing Tell Me Straight, but Keith declined, so maybe the old geezer still got a say after all. I also doubt that Mick insisted on bringing in Steve when Charlie got ill. I suspect that Keith had a hand in that, far more than what they stated publicly. But that's me speculating.

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

According to Keith, Mick wanted to sing Tell Me Straight, but Keith declined, so maybe the old geezer still got a say after all. I also doubt that Mick insisted on bringing in Steve when Charlie got ill. I suspect that Keith had a hand in that, far more than what they stated publicly. But that's me speculating.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

According to Keith, Mick wanted to sing Tell Me Straight, but Keith declined, so maybe the old geezer still got a say after all. I also doubt that Mick insisted on bringing in Steve when Charlie got ill. I suspect that Keith had a hand in that, far more than what they stated publicly. But that's me speculating.

You might be right in both cases, but then again I don't think the case of Mick's leaderdhip is that of deciding on everything, you know, like being a dictator or an absolute monarch or something. A good leadership contains an ability to make compromises and seeing in where the decision is better to leave on other people...

- Doxa

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Doxa

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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

You have a point there that picking up Jordan changed the band dynamics. But, like I think Retired Dog indicated, that of Jordan taking Charlie's seat was also a kind of gesture from Mick side to have someone Keith is comfortable and familiar with. For such an old dog, famous being very conservative and even stubborn musically for ages, to learn new tricks would have been probably too much. I don't think there is any longer bigger conflict of interests at this stage - you know, like Jordan being "Keith's man" to thread Jagger's leaderdhip, etc. It was best for the Stones, since for the band to roll, a happy, functional Keith is needed.

But that said, I don't see in a theory any reason for Keith not provide solo material with Jordan. I mean, a couple of years ago Mick did that with Charlie and Ronnie. As you for sure recall, Keith said that the songs were "no Stones material", and that Mick needs to release them solo if he wants to release them. Well, if there truely are some unused Keith songs out there that Mick thinks is "not Stones material", that is, something he wants the Stones to release (what else 'Stones material' is but something both Mick and Keith agree on releasing), why wouldn't Keith release that under his own name?

But I think, like Retired Dog and to an extent you also do admit, that the reason why there not might be a new Richards album, is that tank is too empty by now. All energy left is used for the use of the Stones. (Not that Mick is that different - he also seem to direct most of his energy into the Stones activities, unless some sudden touch of muse forcing him to throw a solo song out of his system).

- Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

You have a point there that picking up Jordan changed the band dynamics. But, like I think Retired Dog indicated, that of Jordan taking Charlie's seat was also a kind of gesture from Mick side to have someone Keith is comfortable and familiar with. For such an old dog, famous being very conservative and even stubborn musically for ages, to learn new tricks would have been probably too much. I don't think there is any longer bigger conflict of interests at this stage - you know, like Jordan being "Keith's man" to thread Jagger's leaderdhip, etc. It was best for the Stones, since for the band to roll, a happy, functional Keith is needed.

But that said, I don't see in a theory any reason for Keith not provide solo material with Jordan. I mean, a couple of years ago Mick did that with Charlie and Ronnie. As you for sure recall, Keith said that the songs were "no Stones material", and that Mick needs to release them solo if he wants to release them. Well, if there truely are some unused Keith songs out there that Mick thinks is "not Stones material", that is, something he wants the Stones to release (what else 'Stones material' is but something both Mick and Keith agree on releasing), why wouldn't Keith release that under his own name?

But I think, like Retired Dog and to an extent you also do admit, that the reason why there not might be a new Richards album, is that tank is too empty by now. All energy left is used for the use of the Stones. (Not that Mick is that different - he also seem to direct most of his energy into the Stones activities, unless some sudden touch of muse forcing him to throw a solo song out of his system).

- Doxa

I still think that picking up Jordan hasn't changed the band dynamics at least YET, as long as Jordan sticks to his role as the drummer of the band. In that regard, I held my breath when in a recent interview documented somewhere here he claimed that he would have produced some of the new material differently - there's a fine line that you better not cross in the Stones, and it would be interesting to see what would happen once Steve tries to team up with Keith and challenge Mick a bit too much... But so far, Keith seems to be overly happy with the album and "the young man" Andrew as a producer and apparently shows no interest in using Steve as a collaborator in a new power game that could indeed break up the Stones.

Furthermore, I think that "all energy left is used for the use of the Stones", as you put it, Doxa, is the key element for HD having turned out as a creative success compared to previous albums. There was no "holding back" of excellent material for solo albums that ruined Stones efforts like VL, no power games, no producer who sided up with either Mick or Keith like Don Was (mostly with Keith, see VL and in particular ABB, usually ending up with Mick losing interest). The focus was on the band, on the Stones, not on the egos of the two principals - and it shows!

When was the last time Mick did backing vocals on a Keith lead vocal tune?

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retired_dog


When was the last time Mick did backing vocals on a Keith lead vocal tune?

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maumau

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retired_dog


When was the last time Mick did backing vocals on a Keith lead vocal tune?

The Worst, that I recall

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keefriffhards

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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keefriffhards
Fair comments Retired_dog, i see your points, i was just saying why i feel it's unlikely Keith's unused material will see the light of day at this stage, i kind of disagree with you though when it comes to Steve Jordan, he's a Stone now and i just can't see Keith working with him alone long enough to make a whole album at Keiths pace away from the Stones while the Stones remain active touring/ making another unfinished album.
I don't think I'm being nieve, Mick is the commander remember.
The dynamic has changed in the past few decades, Keith works for Mick rather than with Mick. Mick decides what Keith will do and when he does it, from making albums/ tours, what songs will be playing, who plays with the Stones, how many dates they play, backing singers, who produces the albums etc etc.

You have a point there that picking up Jordan changed the band dynamics. But, like I think Retired Dog indicated, that of Jordan taking Charlie's seat was also a kind of gesture from Mick side to have someone Keith is comfortable and familiar with. For such an old dog, famous being very conservative and even stubborn musically for ages, to learn new tricks would have been probably too much. I don't think there is any longer bigger conflict of interests at this stage - you know, like Jordan being "Keith's man" to thread Jagger's leaderdhip, etc. It was best for the Stones, since for the band to roll, a happy, functional Keith is needed.

But that said, I don't see in a theory any reason for Keith not provide solo material with Jordan. I mean, a couple of years ago Mick did that with Charlie and Ronnie. As you for sure recall, Keith said that the songs were "no Stones material", and that Mick needs to release them solo if he wants to release them. Well, if there truely are some unused Keith songs out there that Mick thinks is "not Stones material", that is, something he wants the Stones to release (what else 'Stones material' is but something both Mick and Keith agree on releasing), why wouldn't Keith release that under his own name?

But I think, like Retired Dog and to an extent you also do admit, that the reason why there not might be a new Richards album, is that tank is too empty by now. All energy left is used for the use of the Stones. (Not that Mick is that different - he also seem to direct most of his energy into the Stones activities, unless some sudden touch of muse forcing him to throw a solo song out of his system).

- Doxa

I still think that picking up Jordan hasn't changed the band dynamics at least YET, as long as Jordan sticks to his role as the drummer of the band. In that regard, I held my breath when in a recent interview documented somewhere here he claimed that he would have produced some of the new material differently - there's a fine line that you better not cross in the Stones, and it would be interesting to see what would happen once Steve tries to team up with Keith and challenge Mick a bit too much... But so far, Keith seems to be overly happy with the album and "the young man" Andrew as a producer and apparently shows no interest in using Steve as a collaborator in a new power game that could indeed break up the Stones.

Furthermore, I think that "all energy left is used for the use of the Stones", as you put it, Doxa, is the key element for HD having turned out as a creative success compared to previous albums. There was no "holding back" of excellent material for solo albums that ruined Stones efforts like VL, no power games, no producer who sided up with either Mick or Keith like Don Was (mostly with Keith, see VL and in particular ABB, usually ending up with Mick losing interest). The focus was on the band, on the Stones, not on the egos of the two principals - and it shows!

When was the last time Mick did backing vocals on a Keith lead vocal tune?

On the contrary Steve Jordan would have done a fantastic job of producing this album, but it's Mick's band so bring in a stranger to the band so we can do what someone else thinks this band should sound like.

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MadMetaphoricalMax
At present, in an emergency and if I had to choose three tracks to listen to before the power fails, it would be Get Close, Depending on You, and Driving Me Too Hard. The rock ballads. The guitars on this just get better and better with more listens - the care and detail and the just right phrasing. To more or less dismiss them as 'Mick's band' - with the apporopriate rictus sneer - is just silly to me, and doesn't stand uo to the scrutiny of what we hear. The three principal players are all over it and at the top of their games on this track, and all the others, really.

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MelBelli

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maumau

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retired_dog


When was the last time Mick did backing vocals on a Keith lead vocal tune?

The Worst, that I recall

This Place is Empty!

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Silver Dagger
Couldn't agree more. Loved the rowdy ones best at first - Bite Your Head Off and Whole Wide World but the more I listen to the album the more I consider these among the best songs they've written for decades. The guitars on Driving Me Too Hard capture the definitive 70s Rolling Stones sound. Vintage stuff.

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goingmad

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MelBelli

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maumau

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retired_dog


When was the last time Mick did backing vocals on a Keith lead vocal tune?

The Worst, that I recall

This Place is Empty!

Infamy!

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kovach
After repeated listens of the album, this has really emerged as a favorite.

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maumau
this song is sriously dawning on me
way beyond the fact that I would love keith to sing it himeslf
another gem

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HardRiffin

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maumau
this song is sriously dawning on me
way beyond the fact that I would love keith to sing it himeslf
another gem