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Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 7, 2023 12:55

Quote
Spud

In the years that followed, folks simply forgot how good, how rewarding and enjoyable recorded music could and should sound.

But not all - there're people like Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree) who still know how good digital music can sound. And then there're people e.g. at MoFi/MFSL or Analogue Productions who do very good masterings for SACD. Plus there're still some fans who appreciate this excellent sound quality. Digital can definitely sound very good - but Universal/Sony/Warner seem barely interested in.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 7, 2023 13:01

Quite so ...but these guys ae the exception rather than the rule.

And those of us who appreciate this quality are perceived as "audio anoraks", in a time when everybody should be able to enjoy that quality of source material.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 7, 2023 16:13

Quote
Spud
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Spud
Digital audio today is potentially great..

The problem is that the industry has not settled on a universal format or on any accepted standards for true High Fidelity reproduction.

It could be better than records...

...but it isn't because the industry is only interested in catering for the mass low and mid-fi markets, where brick wall compression provides a superficially more impressive sound.

Startling that they can't just provide 2 options, certainly for downloading. It really wouldn't cost any more real money.

thumbs up

That's right ...and it's what the industry should be doing with all commercially released music .
Think of it a bit like the old days of vinyl & cassette.

The vinyl was the quality format, with cassettes complimenting it for convenience & mobility.

I think it was CD that started the rot in the mid 80's.

Despite it's getting a bit better over the years, it was just not good enough and was accepted very prematurely as the mass market medium for quality music reproduction.

In the years that followed, folks simply forgot how good, how rewarding and enjoyable recorded music could and should sound.

Expectations had fallen, leaving the music industry then free to get away with whatever digital murder it chose to commit!

The only thing is that we haven't actually forgotten...at least not everyone which is why we're having the conversation. The mystery to me is that in a competitive capitalist system, why they aren't trying to maximize their return by offering those quality versions?

Maybe that's the bluray/CD box set in this case?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 7, 2023 16:50

Quote
treaclefingers

The mystery to me is that in a competitive capitalist system, why they aren't trying to maximize their return by offering those quality versions?

Because they can maximize their return also with minimum effort (low quality). Lots of people seem to be satisfied with listening their music in mono via Smartphone- or Bluetooth speaker.

In an October 2023 interview, a German journalist asked Jean-Michel Jarre why there's no Dolby Atmos on Spotify. JMJ replied: "Spotify isn't interested because they don't see any business in it. It would be easier for them if they could stream in mono" - [Heise.de] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-07 17:10 by Irix.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 7, 2023 17:08

Quote
Irix
Quote
treaclefingers

The mystery to me is that in a competitive capitalist system, why they aren't trying to maximize their return by offering those quality versions?

Because they can maximize their return also with minimum effort (low quality). Lots of people seem to be satisfied with listening their music in mono via Smartphone- or Bluetooth speaker.

I understand that, but that's not maximizing. They can maximize by offering the low quality version AND the high quality version as the cost difference is negligible.

There's obviously also a demand for high quality - perhaps not in the same volume (pun intended) or else we wouldn't all be jumping up and down screaming about it.

They're leaving money on the table.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 7, 2023 17:20

Quote
treaclefingers

There's obviously also a demand for high quality - perhaps not in the same volume (pun intended) or else we wouldn't all be jumping up and down screaming about it.

Yes, there's also some demand for high quality - but there're too few companies like MoFi/MFSL and probably the large record companies (Universal/Sony/Warner) get not enough revenue from these special remasters.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: December 7, 2023 17:46

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
VoodooLounge13
So get this - treacle is gonna love this after my UDiscover Canada haul last year LOL..........

Today I received another eyes/tongue blue vinyl copy of HD along with another replacement German only litho print!!! That is the 2nd replacement set I've received, 3 total. And FNAC kept forgetting to send me the Fuschia one, so I have a duplicate of that as well. I also have received duplicates of the black vinyl, picture vinyl, 10" SSOH, and the CD Single of SSOH!!!!!

Hoping I can unload all these to re-coop a little of what I spent!! LOL But can ya believe!!! I also received a duplicate of the Stripped Paradiso vinyl. It's unbelievable!!

OK, I've gone from being supportive to full blown jealousy!

Merry Christmas!


Have you finally received all that you'd ordered??

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 7, 2023 18:37

Quote
VoodooLounge13
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
VoodooLounge13
So get this - treacle is gonna love this after my UDiscover Canada haul last year LOL..........

Today I received another eyes/tongue blue vinyl copy of HD along with another replacement German only litho print!!! That is the 2nd replacement set I've received, 3 total. And FNAC kept forgetting to send me the Fuschia one, so I have a duplicate of that as well. I also have received duplicates of the black vinyl, picture vinyl, 10" SSOH, and the CD Single of SSOH!!!!!

Hoping I can unload all these to re-coop a little of what I spent!! LOL But can ya believe!!! I also received a duplicate of the Stripped Paradiso vinyl. It's unbelievable!!

OK, I've gone from being supportive to full blown jealousy!

Merry Christmas!


Have you finally received all that you'd ordered??

yes, finally! I have a plethora of vinyl and CD/Blu Rays.

I hear they're releasing pt. deux of the vinyl singles box set as early as Feb 2024, so not to worry, more spending opportunities.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: December 7, 2023 22:29

Will wait for that one to drop in price some!!! Have a dishwasher I need to have installed in February!!!

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 7, 2023 22:46

NO ...move ta paper plates and get the singles box Voodoo..... HuuuHHuuuuaaaa



ROCKMAN

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 7, 2023 23:23

Quote
Rockman
NO ...move ta paper plates and get the singles box Voodoo..... HuuuHHuuuuaaaa

And if the paper plates are coated, you can rinse them quickly under the tap, saving even more!

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 7, 2023 23:29

....man that's scrooooogin' ......



ROCKMAN

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: December 8, 2023 01:16

You guys are too much! LOL. I’d install myself and save all the $$$ for the box but this is a new install and will require a little cutting of the existing cabinetry, electrical work, etc so leaving it to the pros!!!

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 8, 2023 01:22

Yeah ...didnt know those ladies of the night were so talented



ROCKMAN

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: stargroover ()
Date: December 8, 2023 01:37

Still enjoying and listening to the album.
Hoping there will be vinyl of the club gig show,any news other than the cd?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: December 8, 2023 06:54

Quote
Rockman
Yeah ...didnt know those ladies of the night were so talented

Carpentry is their pride and joy, Rock! Quality plumbing, sparks flying, handling all that wood. Y’know a good measure of lumber goes a long way toward setting a box straight for life!!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 8, 2023 11:20

Quote
stargroover

any news other than the cd?

Yes, streaming & download also available - but there's currently no link.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 8, 2023 11:38

Quote
Irix
Quote
treaclefingers

There's obviously also a demand for high quality - perhaps not in the same volume (pun intended) or else we wouldn't all be jumping up and down screaming about it.

Yes, there's also some demand for high quality - but there're too few companies like MoFi/MFSL and probably the large record companies (Universal/Sony/Warner) get not enough revenue from these special remasters.


Another part of the equation, I think, is that advancing technology these days is employed primarily in the multi media side of the market, Blue Ray, Dolby Atmos surround and and whatever else is on the horizon.

What's missing is a dedicated and consistent Digital format for high quality stereo sound only.

Sadly, there possibly just isn't the demand for this... and those of us sitting in comfy chairs between two speakers just listening to the music are probably dinosaurs on the very edge of extinction.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 8, 2023 12:00

Quote
Spud

What's missing is a dedicated and consistent Digital format for high quality stereo sound only.

There is since many years: HiRes-PCM, 24bit, up to 768kHz. Or DSD, 1bit, up to 22MHz.

The real issue is the 'poor' mastering quality by Universal/Sony/Warner Music. As mentioned above, there're exceptions like e.g. Steven Wilson or Giles Martin.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 8, 2023 12:25

Totally agree...but the industry as a whole just isn't committed to promoting this high quality audio only format.

..and yes ...their attitude is confirmed in this continued overly loud & compressed mastering to cater primarily for playback via low quality and portable devices.

I'm just thankful that I can still buy records...ever hopeful that a nice flat digital master will be provided for a vinyl mastering engineer with a bit of skill and taste grinning smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-08 12:59 by Spud.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: December 8, 2023 12:28

Guys, this is an album recorded in 2023 and Mick wanted it to sound like it was recorded and mixed in 2023.
If you want an album to sound like 2023 then having it a bit brickwalled and compressed is part of its sonic identity.

Its another thing if an old recording gets remastered and compressed some decades after it was recorded but this album was meant to sound like that. If you like it or not.

I love it.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 8, 2023 13:05

Quote
StonedRambler

If you want an album to sound like 2023 then having it a bit brickwalled and compressed is part of its sonic identity.

Not necessarily. Listen to the Dolby Atmos version of 'Hackney Diamonds', done by Giles Martin. There're no brickwalled or compressed parts. Same with the Vinyl - [MagicVinylDigital.net] .

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 8, 2023 13:39

Yep...the vinyl has a much more natural and musical dynamic than the CD .

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 8, 2023 14:46

Quote
Spud
Quote
Irix
Quote
treaclefingers

There's obviously also a demand for high quality - perhaps not in the same volume (pun intended) or else we wouldn't all be jumping up and down screaming about it.

Yes, there's also some demand for high quality - but there're too few companies like MoFi/MFSL and probably the large record companies (Universal/Sony/Warner) get not enough revenue from these special remasters.


Another part of the equation, I think, is that advancing technology these days is employed primarily in the multi media side of the market, Blue Ray, Dolby Atmos surround and and whatever else is on the horizon.

What's missing is a dedicated and consistent Digital format for high quality stereo sound only.

Sadly, there possibly just isn't the demand for this... and those of us sitting in comfy chairs between two speakers just listening to the music are probably dinosaurs on the very edge of extinction.

The loud, uber-compressed versions of music...I don't understand it. Listening for long periods of time hurts the ears.

You can't even 'turn it up' like in the olden days because it sounds so "shrill", if I can use a word that may not accurately describe the sound, but does accurately describe my interpretation of it.

Listening to music like this on earbuds or headphones like the kids are doing...I can't imagine what that does to your hearing over an extended period of time. It can't be good. Anyway, as implied there aren't enough people who care, or even know the difference. There needs to be some sort of impetus to change this, I thought their ability to make more money offering a high quality alternative might be this, but apparently not.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 8, 2023 14:59

Quote
treaclefingers
... there aren't enough people who care, or even know the difference...

That is, sadly, the root of the issuesad smiley

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: UrbanSteel ()
Date: December 8, 2023 15:10


Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 8, 2023 16:50

Quote
UrbanSteel

Hooray !

Much more to the point than our incessant moaning about sound quality grinning smiley

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: December 8, 2023 17:10


Large picture


In Germany:

"Annual Music Charts 2023: Rolling Stones and 'Komet' win

'Hackney Diamonds' has only been on the market since the end of October. But the Rolling Stones' new album has already sold so well that it has now even topped the Official German Annual Charts 2023, determined by GfK Entertainment. Mick Jagger & Co. are on the verge of achieving platinum status, beating their compatriots from Depeche Mode ('Memento Mori', two), among others. The bronze medal also goes to a cult band, namely Metallica ('72 Seasons').

Mick Jagger accepted the well-deserved 'Number 1 Award' of the Official German Annual Charts and sent a message to the fans: 'Thank you Germany, what a way to end the year!'. Ron Wood added: 'Wow, I can't believe that 'Hackney Diamonds' is the album of the year in Germany, what an honour. Thank you to everyone who bought the album. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did when we made it. I hope to see you in Germany again soon!'. Keith Richards, who turns 80 in ten days, also expressed his enthusiasm: 'Thank you, Germany. What a great birthday present! You are the best!!!! Keith'
" - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] , [www.Facebook.com] .

'Hackney Diamonds' is still #4 in the general Top-100 album charts on 8-Dec-2023 - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] . And #1 in the German annual album charts - [Twitter.com] .



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2023-12-08 18:15 by Irix.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: December 8, 2023 23:20

Having listened through the album a couple of times I still wouldn't rank it higher than any album before 1983 (with an exception for TSMR).
But it's maybe the best post 1983 album. Still I'm happy that they finally released a new album after such a long wait.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 8, 2023 23:25

Go Hack ....



ROCKMAN

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