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24FPS

But who cares what he did with Miles Davis? Or how Charlie liked his jazz playing? We're talking about the Greatest ROCK AND ROLL Band in the world. And their bass has been on pause since 1993.

I second that. Darryl doesn't add much, with a few live exceptions where he has his moments.

Darryl is a super pro, with music degrees, he gives bass class etc. He is a teacher... Look at his website

[darryljones.com]

"He teaches classes and conducts clinics around the world.... After several years gigging around the Chicago music scene, Darryl’s international recording and touring career took flight at age 21, with jazz icon Miles Davis. Gigs with Sting, Herbie Hancock, Peter Gabriel, Madonna, Eric Clapton, and others soon followed, and since ‘93 he’s been the bassist for the Rolling Stones. When his schedule permits, he performs with other artists, co-leads a couple of bands, serves the legacy of The Chief with the Miles Electric Band; and in 2017 he debuted The Darryl Jones Project."

However,because he is a session guy, because he is such a dedicated teacher, he misses the laid back approach which is the Stones groove signature. But also, to be fair, the Stones does not hire him to act like a member of the band.

Well Bill... He is just the guy singing "Another Land" and "Yes I'm a rock star" with this tongue-in-cheek, falesly amateur approach.. And his jumping, cartoon-esque bass... And I like it.

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24FPS

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TheflyingDutchman

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TheflyingDutchman
Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch.

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the joker
.... Darryl play the same roots notes, indeed, but Darryl often double the speed (fast , sixteenth notes when the beat is yet 120 bpm, and sometimes triplet) so you have this speedy effect. He is also more precise, "right on the beat", and dry as you note, which add to the punchy effect when he lands on the next measure. He also tends to venture more on the neck (nothing excessive) arryl likely uses three fingers with the right hand, not so often a pick, while Bill uses picks or the edge of his thumb, which has a quite similar "hollow" effect as a pick......

You can hear all this on the Miles track I posted.

But who cares what he did with Miles Davis? Or how Charlie liked his jazz playing? We're talking about the Greatest ROCK AND ROLL Band in the world. And their bass has been on pause since 1993.

I'm so sorry for you to read this. It's completely new to me. Call: 1-1-2.

Ok, so it appears that I can't understand what authentic rock and roll bass should sound like, I did some homework and just played Start me Up from Flashpoint and then from Brixton 95 back to back (I think we all agree that SMU features a beautiful signature Bill bass line in the studio version).

Still don't get it, I can't hear generic-uninspired-non rock and roll bass work in the Brixton version. In fact it rocks.

Can you please help me?

C

I've always found DJ's playing to be rather dull, just chugging along on root notes, not adding much in the way of melodic or rhythmical twists that Bill (and many other great bass players) did.

I suspect that KR or MJ tell him what to do in the studio: ''Just follow my chords!'' - and the end result is less than magical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-28 14:34 by peoplewitheyes.

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liddas
Ok, so it appears that I can't understand what authentic rock and roll bass should sound like, I did some homework and just played Start me Up from Flashpoint and then from Brixton 95 back to back (I think we all agree that SMU features a beautiful signature Bill bass line in the studio version).

Still don't get it, I can't hear generic-uninspired-non rock and roll bass work in the Brixton version. In fact it rocks.

Can you please help me?

C

You may be very true

Darryl has his moments.

But sometimes, too many times, his playing may be a bore, albeit efficient.




But who cares what he did with Miles Davis? Or how Charlie liked his jazz playing?

Agree 100% with 24FPS

Some (naive) cultural reference mustn't dictate our taste

Same old story... Some rock musicians/ listeners feel obliged to have jazz or classical cultural reference so their favorite music would be taken seriously.. They shouldn't...

How put that? Darryl's bass is rich, full of nutrients... But it doesn't tease.. Doesn't engage the listener.. So here maybe why (and it's a big maybe)... Darryl doesn't leave room for the silences/ rests, which are so important for a grooving bass... Bill had a more punctuated style with more breathing... Also, Bill didn't go much in 16th note, which has sometimes a too technical/ "show off" effect

Listen these two versions of Little Queenie

Darryl puts a straight rock line, which does the job

Bill ? He has fun around it, peppering the thing with silence and dancing eyeblink














Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-28 15:25 by The Joker.

It's not the bass that makes the first version above a bit boring, mainstream rock. It's the guitars and the lead vocals that miss groove and sexappeal ...

so don't blame Darryl (alone)

resotele

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resotele
It's not the bass that makes the first version above a bit boring, mainstream rock. It's the guitars and the lead vocals that miss groove and sexappeal ...

so don't blame Darryl (alone)

resotele

You got a point here

But who is the hen, and who is the egg?

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resotele

Well, that is a bass rather grooving.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-28 19:14 by The Joker.

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TheflyingDutchman

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24FPS

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TheflyingDutchman

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TheflyingDutchman
Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch.

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the joker
.... Darryl play the same roots notes, indeed, but Darryl often double the speed (fast , sixteenth notes when the beat is yet 120 bpm, and sometimes triplet) so you have this speedy effect. He is also more precise, "right on the beat", and dry as you note, which add to the punchy effect when he lands on the next measure. He also tends to venture more on the neck (nothing excessive) arryl likely uses three fingers with the right hand, not so often a pick, while Bill uses picks or the edge of his thumb, which has a quite similar "hollow" effect as a pick......

You can hear all this on the Miles track I posted.

But who cares what he did with Miles Davis? Or how Charlie liked his jazz playing? We're talking about the Greatest ROCK AND ROLL Band in the world. And their bass has been on pause since 1993.

I'm so sorry for you to read this. It's completely new to me. Call: 1-1-2.

I have no idea what you mean. I had to look up '112' to know it's some kind of emergency number in Europe. What's new to you? Darryl and Miles Davis? Call: 911.

If Darryl is ‘generic’ in his playing, is he then also to blame for the ‘generic’ sound the Stones has practised for the last 35 years?
Because I also hear the whole band playing way cleaner and MOR.
Face it guys, the whole sound of The Stones was dramatically changed when Steel Wheels arrived and has been ever since.

Btw. Bill Wyman, as great as he was for the band, was sometimes playing very uninspired as well. Sometimes so uninspired that one wondered if the guy was even interested in being there. And sometimes he played some horrible out-of-tune bass-lines as well. But I guess he gets a pass because he was an original Stone. Right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-28 23:45 by Blueranger.

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The Joker
How put that? Darryl's bass is rich, full of nutrients... But it doesn't tease.. Doesn't engage the listener.. So here maybe why (and it's a big maybe)... Darryl doesn't leave room for the silences/ rests, which are so important for a grooving bass... Bill had a more punctuated style with more breathing... Also, Bill didn't go much in 16th note, which has sometimes a too technical/ "show off" effect

Listen these two versions of Little Queenie

Darryl puts a straight rock line, which does the job

Bill ? He has fun around it, peppering the thing with silence and dancing eyeblink

Why compare? These are two different bands i.e musical approaches.

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Blueranger
Btw. Bill Wyman, as great as he was for the band, was sometimes playing very uninspired as well. Sometimes so uninspired that one wondered if the guy was even interested in being there. And sometimes he played some horrible out-of-tune bass-lines as well. But I guess he gets a pass because he was an original Stone. Right?

Not to my ears. There were times he didn't 'come forward' because the song called for him to lay back. He could play one note and have an emotional impact on a studio track. He doesn't need a pass. Check him out backing Muddy, Buddy and Junior Wells at Montreaux. He sounds completely different, and just as good.

I heard Love is Strong on the radio today. It was playing on my sound system that runs through my entire house and the speaker I was closest to for some reason favored the drums and bass.
I’m pretty sure Daryl plays on that but it instantly showed what was missing with Bill being gone.
The bass stayed with the damn drums the whole time.Keith was playing this slinky rhythm that was moving all over the place, just killing it. Leaving open spaces, shifting off here and there and Bill would’ve went with the guitar for a bit and then jumped back in with Charlie.

It was like the guitar was begging c,mon!but the bass just stuck in the rhythm section like .every. Other. Damn.band.on the planet.

Here's a recording where you can hear Darryl quite well: [youtu.be]

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Blueranger
If Darryl is ‘generic’ in his playing, is he then also to blame for the ‘generic’ sound the Stones has practised for the last 35 years?
Because I also hear the whole band playing way cleaner and MOR.
Face it guys, the whole sound of The Stones was dramatically changed when Steel Wheels arrived and has been ever since.

Btw. Bill Wyman, as great as he was for the band, was sometimes playing very uninspired as well. Sometimes so uninspired that one wondered if the guy was even interested in being there. And sometimes he played some horrible out-of-tune bass-lines as well. But I guess he gets a pass because he was an original Stone. Right?

You have a point here. No matter how different Bill and Darryl are as bass players, I don't think that difference to the over-all sound is that important if we compare STEEL WHEELS and VOODOO LOUNGE tours. From 1989 on the band wasn't any longer the same funny, wild, wobble one we remember from Bill's glory years (of which we seemingly have fond memories). I guess if Keith would still lead the band, and him and Ronnie play like they used to and have such a central role to their sound, Darryl might sound more relaxed and free-going. Due to their very structured, 'professional' over-all sound of 1989 I don't find Bill's bass playing either that unique or idiosyncratic as it once was. So I don't think replacing him with a pro session player like Darryl really was that dramatic.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-29 20:05 by Doxa.

None of this has anything to do with Darryl's music sheets. The only part I thought was unfortunate was the second post is essentially "Screw Darryl, why would you even care?" That aside, there have been some good points made in the thread.

I love Darryl as part of the band on VOODOO LOUNGE. On BRIDGES, the tracks with Jeff Sarli stand out in the same way Joey Spaminato would have. It's great on new material. I'm not sure how JJF would sound with a Sarli or Spaminato on bass.

I suspect Keith cutting JJF with Aretha had a big impact on the later Stones sound. Randy Jackson's bass is closer to funk than rock. That became what they went for, at least in concert, with Darryl.

Another big factor is age. Listen to "Watching the River Flow" and you could be listening to Mick backed by faceless session men. The Frankenstein effect of the four classic albums with reworked outtakes is, at times, equally disconcerting. Ronnie today plays very different to Ronnie in the 1970s. Hearing him on LOST AND FOUND is as jarring as suddenly hearing Matt Clifford play on a familiar outtake or having 21st Century Mick sing "You Win Again" with 1978 Keith harmonizing. It doesn't matter how good they are, it sounds off because they should have simply recut the songs. And that's just the studio.

In concert, Mick, Keith, and Ronnie have definitely showed time catching up with them. Charlie slowed down his last couple tours considerably. Steve Jordan, who I loved with Keith solo, did not seem to click with Darryl and Mick, in particular, seemed lost onstage without Charlie. The last tour, particularly with (of all songs) "Out of Time," seemed to have all of them, including the rhythm section, find their way at last.

Perfectly stated, Lem. Love Is Strong is exactly the song that comes to mind, let down by a stodgy, uninspired baseline.

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lem motlow
I heard Love is Strong on the radio today. It was playing on my sound system that runs through my entire house and the speaker I was closest to for some reason favored the drums and bass.
I’m pretty sure Daryl plays on that but it instantly showed what was missing with Bill being gone.
The bass stayed with the damn drums the whole time.Keith was playing this slinky rhythm that was moving all over the place, just killing it. Leaving open spaces, shifting off here and there and Bill would’ve went with the guitar for a bit and then jumped back in with Charlie.

It was like the guitar was begging c,mon!but the bass just stuck in the rhythm section like .every. Other. Damn.band.on the planet.

Our missed Bill:



[/quote]

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emotionalbarbecue

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lem motlow
I heard Love is Strong on the radio today. It was playing on my sound system that runs through my entire house and the speaker I was closest to for some reason favored the drums and bass.
I’m pretty sure Daryl plays on that but it instantly showed what was missing with Bill being gone.
The bass stayed with the damn drums the whole time.Keith was playing this slinky rhythm that was moving all over the place, just killing it. Leaving open spaces, shifting off here and there and Bill would’ve went with the guitar for a bit and then jumped back in with Charlie.

It was like the guitar was begging c,mon!but the bass just stuck in the rhythm section like .every. Other. Damn.band.on the planet.

Our missed Bill:

[/quote]

Thanks. Man, that licky, watery sound.... The very opposite of the dry sound.

When I hear The Stones live with Bill that old cliche that’s been written appears to my ears to be true. Keith’s a little ahead, Charlie’s on the money, and Bills a little behind. It’s all milliseconds around the beat. The Stones never sounded the same without that wobble created by those 3 guys and their interpretation of where the beat lands. Darryl’s the kind of player who will always be smack on the beat. It takes away a little of the mess and danger there was with Bill.

Any updates on the music sheets?

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Koen
Any updates on the music sheets?

[darryljones.com]

[twitter.com]

Article posted by Andrew Loog Oldham

video: [www.youtube.com]

New music featuring Darryl Jones, with Niels Lan Doky, Bill Evans, Harvey Mason