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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

Atlantic paid for the PPV showcase from Webster Hall, but record companies rarely have tour support apart from promoting back catalog and in-store signings with shows (something The Stones or Mick solo didn't do). Think about Stones tours. You didn't see Atlantic, EMI, CBS, Virgin, Polydor, or Interscope with their names among the sponsors. The actual tour support from labels is a relatively small marketing budget. As for Mick solo, both 1988 tours were major successes in their respective countries.

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Rocky Dijon
[www.rollingstone.com]

8 shows in Japan, 170K attendees @ Y6500 apiece. 8 shows sold out in hours.

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Rocky Dijon
[www.rollingstone.com]

8 shows in Japan, 170K attendees @ Y6500 apiece. 8 shows sold out in hours.

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Jbeckerfan

Referring to North America. You can't just plan Japan every week.

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Rocky Dijon

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Jbeckerfan

Referring to North America. You can't just plan Japan every week.

You asked for Pollstar account for attendance and grosses for North America just to point out he didn't tour North America?

I get it. Mick has a platinum album and gold album in the States, 5 Top 40 hits in the States, and played sold out tours of Japan and Australia, but he's a failure. Keith wasn't a failure if held to the same standards. This makes sense.

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Jbeckerfan

I wasn't aware that he had never toured North America, only that he hadn't done arenas here. I was mistaken in thinking he had done some shows. I was simply pointing out why he hadn't played arenas; because he couldn't.

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georgie48

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

Atlantic paid for the PPV showcase from Webster Hall, but record companies rarely have tour support apart from promoting back catalog and in-store signings with shows (something The Stones or Mick solo didn't do). Think about Stones tours. You didn't see Atlantic, EMI, CBS, Virgin, Polydor, or Interscope with their names among the sponsors. The actual tour support from labels is a relatively small marketing budget. As for Mick solo, both 1988 tours were major successes in their respective countries.

Record companies don't promote their artists on tour (they do provide leaflets, posters,etc. linked to an album though). It is the other way around. Tours are there (not always) to promote the record companies (read: the album(s) they sell representing the artist). Fans in general don't care either way. They are the lucky ones .... a new album (okay the upcoming Stones album was preceded by lots of tours not related directly to any album) ... and one or more concerts

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Rocky Dijon

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Hairball
Personally, the thought of Mick on a "solo" tour with his band playing mostly Stones tunes is not something I would have been eager to see, let alone pay for.
Maybe in a very small theater or club for apprx. $10 just to see Mick the performer in action, but musically it sounds a bit tribute band-esque...sterile and bland.
But I'm sure many fans would have loved it in arenas and/or even stadioums, just as many enjoy Paul McCartney playing so many Beatles tunes during his shows with his band of side musicians.
Whatever the case, glad it never happened, so contemplating/debating the what-ifs, ands, or buts seems a bit senseless for me so many years after the fact. Ultimately, thankful the Stones continued to roll.

Agree that it was a bit like seeing Macca, but it's easy to say that increasingly since 1989, the Stones have also seemed like a tribute band.

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caschimann
Keith's two solo albums are mostly listenable. Mick's are mostly unlistenable.

Mick focused on himself. Keith just wanted to be free to play music.

Totally Keith-camp-nonsense.
Keith albums are awful to 80%
Micks albums (instesd of. the 2cnd one)
sre pretty good.

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Doxa
A-ha, this thread turned out to be just another Mick vs. Keith dick contest. Nice.

- Doxa

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caschimann

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Mathijs

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Dan

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

I never heard about that Wandering Spirit tour thing. Is this just an educated guess or are there actually some firm sources behind the claim?

- Doxa

Considering the Voodoo Lounge recording and touring cycle was already on the calendar before Wandering Spirit came out, I also highly doubt it.

Also not sure where he gets "getting the tour financed" from as no Mick Jagger solo tour would require the expense and effort behind a Stones tour. Modest self or record company start ups against advances from promoters like any other arena tour of the time. I am sure Mick could have toured the US in 1988 if he wished though the sizes of venues and guarantees he would expect were probably quite different than promoters were willing to offer.

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

When I see a post talking about "Jagger" all the times I stop reading it. Its out of this world talking about Mick like he is a stranger or some CEO from some corporation. Can't stand this "Jagger"-nonsense anymore. Do you guys think you sound very cool talking like this? Unbelievable.
No one ever talked here about Watts, or Wood, or Wyman, or Richards all the time.
Never.
But again again we have the "Jagger"-talkers here.

I will skip the Keith as long this lasts here.
Going like:
Richards has birthday 2morrow.
Richards has a new guitar.
Richards was seen in NY.
The solo Richards did in Hang Fire was great.
I saw Richards and his wife in the Hamptons.

How weird does this sound!!

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retired_dog

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Doxa
A-ha, this thread turned out to be just another Mick vs. Keith dick contest. Nice.

- Doxa

Thing is, Mick was getting too much praise in this thread, so Keith fans felt forced to step out to correct the picture. You simply can't say too much positive things about Mick without the usual backfiring from the "other side".

First and foremost, I'm a Stones fan. Can't understand this Mick vs. Keith thing. Who invented this schism? Jane, is it your Keith marketing strategy?

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GasLightStreet

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caschimann
Keith's two solo albums are mostly listenable. Mick's are mostly unlistenable.

Mick focused on himself. Keith just wanted to be free to play music.

Totally Keith-camp-nonsense.
Keith albums are awful to 80%
Micks albums (instesd of. the 2cnd one)
sre pretty good.

Learn how to quote - and say something with some sense instead of sounding like a millennial.

Keith camp nonsense?



Bullshit.

Music truth.

Keith's albums compared to Mick's are listenable. Only WANDERING SPIRIT has essence.

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lem motlow

This is the only fansite I’ve ever seen like this.it’s just odd,a certain amount of the people just say crazy unrealistic shit about the lead singer.
Everyone, and I mean everyone that listens to rock and roll knows Jagger is the face of the Stones and he runs the show- except here.
I recently read an article about Carl Denson and he said he played a solo too long and got “ called to the boss’s office for that one”- he was talking about Mick

The Steel Wheels tour started in Philly at Veterans Stadium.they played 2 nights to 110,000 people.
If Ron Wood and Mick Taylor we’re on guitar is it any different? Of course not.
But on good old IORR Jagger couldn’t sell out the 18000 seat Philly spectrum.
You guys are different and I mean that in the nicest way.

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caschimann

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Mathijs

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Dan

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

I never heard about that Wandering Spirit tour thing. Is this just an educated guess or are there actually some firm sources behind the claim?

- Doxa

Considering the Voodoo Lounge recording and touring cycle was already on the calendar before Wandering Spirit came out, I also highly doubt it.

Also not sure where he gets "getting the tour financed" from as no Mick Jagger solo tour would require the expense and effort behind a Stones tour. Modest self or record company start ups against advances from promoters like any other arena tour of the time. I am sure Mick could have toured the US in 1988 if he wished though the sizes of venues and guarantees he would expect were probably quite different than promoters were willing to offer.

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

When I see a post talking about "Jagger" all the times I stop reading it. Its out of this world talking about Mick like he is a stranger or some CEO from some corporation. Can't stand this "Jagger"-nonsense anymore. Do you guys think you sound very cool talking like this? Unbelievable.
No one ever talked here about Watts, or Wood, or Wyman, or Richards all the time.
Never.
But again again we have the "Jagger"-talkers here.

I will skip the Keith as long this lasts here.
Going like:
Richards has birthday 2morrow.
Richards has a new guitar.
Richards was seen in NY.
The solo Richards did in Hang Fire was great.
I saw Richards and his wife in the Hamptons.

How weird does this sound!!

Quote
Hairball
Personally, the thought of Mick on a "solo" tour with his band playing mostly Stones tunes is not something I would have been eager to see, let alone pay for.
Maybe in a very small theater or club for apprx. $10 just to see Mick the performer in action, but musically it sounds a bit tribute band-esque...sterile and bland.
But I'm sure many fans would have loved it in arenas and/or even stadioums, just as many enjoy Paul McCartney playing so many Beatles tunes during his shows with his band of side musicians.
Whatever the case, glad it never happened, so contemplating/debating the what-ifs, ands, or buts seems a bit senseless for me so many years after the fact. Ultimately, thankful the Stones continued to roll.

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Rocky Dijon

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lem motlow

This is the only fansite I’ve ever seen like this.it’s just odd,a certain amount of the people just say crazy unrealistic shit about the lead singer.
Everyone, and I mean everyone that listens to rock and roll knows Jagger is the face of the Stones and he runs the show- except here.
I recently read an article about Carl Denson and he said he played a solo too long and got “ called to the boss’s office for that one”- he was talking about Mick

The Steel Wheels tour started in Philly at Veterans Stadium.they played 2 nights to 110,000 people.
If Ron Wood and Mick Taylor we’re on guitar is it any different? Of course not.
But on good old IORR Jagger couldn’t sell out the 18000 seat Philly spectrum.
You guys are different and I mean that in the nicest way.

There's nothing wrong with preferring Keith's albums to Mick's, but the anti-Mick Peter Pan nonsense is just people parroting what Keith used to say in the press. It should be noted that, to some extent, Keith was just listening to Jane. That's perfectly fine, of course, since she was paid to rehabilitate Keith's public persona so he could get the best solo deal or, years later, sell as many copies possible of his book. That's why her role exists. However, for Stones fans to identify with Keith's image wasn't always the best choice and to repeat what used to be Keith's public pronouncements is a bit like self-loathing. The Winos were not The Stones. Great as WANDERING SPIRIT may be, it's not The Stones. It's also true that The Stones were more than just Mick and Keith, crucial as they are. That is all that is left, true, but that's what the final years are all about, of course.

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treaclefingers
Keith's always been jealous of Mick and that's why you see his behaviour the way you have.

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Dan

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georgie48

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

Atlantic paid for the PPV showcase from Webster Hall, but record companies rarely have tour support apart from promoting back catalog and in-store signings with shows (something The Stones or Mick solo didn't do). Think about Stones tours. You didn't see Atlantic, EMI, CBS, Virgin, Polydor, or Interscope with their names among the sponsors. The actual tour support from labels is a relatively small marketing budget. As for Mick solo, both 1988 tours were major successes in their respective countries.

Record companies don't promote their artists on tour (they do provide leaflets, posters,etc. linked to an album though). It is the other way around. Tours are there (not always) to promote the record companies (read: the album(s) they sell representing the artist). Fans in general don't care either way. They are the lucky ones .... a new album (okay the upcoming Stones album was preceded by lots of tours not related directly to any album) ... and one or more concerts

Actually in the pre Napster era, record companies did provide tour support. Money for the artists to on tour, recoupable against future royalties. Not sure how this translated to arena level headliners but it was very common for opening acts in arenas or club level tours to have their way paid by the record company.

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treaclefingers

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Rocky Dijon

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lem motlow

This is the only fansite I’ve ever seen like this.it’s just odd,a certain amount of the people just say crazy unrealistic shit about the lead singer.
Everyone, and I mean everyone that listens to rock and roll knows Jagger is the face of the Stones and he runs the show- except here.
I recently read an article about Carl Denson and he said he played a solo too long and got “ called to the boss’s office for that one”- he was talking about Mick

The Steel Wheels tour started in Philly at Veterans Stadium.they played 2 nights to 110,000 people.
If Ron Wood and Mick Taylor we’re on guitar is it any different? Of course not.
But on good old IORR Jagger couldn’t sell out the 18000 seat Philly spectrum.
You guys are different and I mean that in the nicest way.

There's nothing wrong with preferring Keith's albums to Mick's, but the anti-Mick Peter Pan nonsense is just people parroting what Keith used to say in the press. It should be noted that, to some extent, Keith was just listening to Jane. That's perfectly fine, of course, since she was paid to rehabilitate Keith's public persona so he could get the best solo deal or, years later, sell as many copies possible of his book. That's why her role exists. However, for Stones fans to identify with Keith's image wasn't always the best choice and to repeat what used to be Keith's public pronouncements is a bit like self-loathing. The Winos were not The Stones. Great as WANDERING SPIRIT may be, it's not The Stones. It's also true that The Stones were more than just Mick and Keith, crucial as they are. That is all that is left, true, but that's what the final years are all about, of course.

Keith's always been jealous of Mick and that's why you see his behaviour the way you have. I don't understand though fans regularly taking the piss out of the lead singer of their favourite band. There's no question if it wasn't for MJ, this band wouldn't be hear 60+ years on.

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Jbeckerfan

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Rocky Dijon
[www.rollingstone.com]

8 shows in Japan, 170K attendees @ Y6500 apiece. 8 shows sold out in hours.

Referring to North America. You can't just plan Japan every week.

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lem motlow
In all honesty,and be real in your answers here-

If Mick said Fck U , I’m done with Keith and they paid him 10 million to go away and the Steel Wheels line up was -

Mick Jagger
Ron Wood
Mick Taylor
Bill Wyman
Charlie Watts

Do they sell one less ticket?

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lem motlow
In all honesty,and be real in your answers here-

If Mick said Fck U , I’m done with Keith and they paid him 10 million to go away and the Steel Wheels line up was -

Mick Jagger
Ron Wood
Mick Taylor
Bill Wyman
Charlie Watts

Do they sell one less ticket?