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Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 16, 2022 12:11

Quote
Topi
I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be. Obviously I have no way of knowing. But it's not likely they're giving any kinds of "arena discounts". winking smiley

I guess they have basically priced themselves out of arenas.

Also we have to remember that the Stones have tried that 'arena tour' concept in 2013 (50 AND COUNTING). The ticket prices were considered pretty high then, and there seemingly were problems for the promoter financially, although the Stones did fine. It was also claimed that Jagger was disappointed by the response of audiences during the American leg and by contrast was thrilled by Glastonbury and Hyde Park audiences. It's been (mostly) stadiums since then. It looks like that the stadium concept fits better for the Stones both financially and audiencewise.

It looks like that Bruce (and his promoter) have the same problems as the Stones ten years ago.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-16 12:28 by Doxa.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: hockenheim95 ()
Date: September 16, 2022 12:24

Honestly I prefer stadium gigs over arena gigs. It's way more spectacular. For me arenas are soulless while every stadium has its own unique fascination.

I think a reason why many people prefer arena gigs over stadium gigs is the fact that the stones used to play more rare songs on their arena shows in 1999, 2003 and 2012/13. But this hasn't been the case in 1998, 2005/6 and 2016 where they played their standard stadium set. So I personally would prefer arena shows only with more rare songs. A greatest hits set fits best in a stadium for me!

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 16, 2022 12:32

Quote
Irix
Quote
exhpart

So I don't think 5 million is set in stone (excuse the pun)

Especially with the sharp rise in energy costs and the high inflation - people would probably no longer pay the high (or even higher) ticket prices.

So are you suggesting the Stones' ticket prices are going to go down?

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 16, 2022 12:43

Quote
Doxa


It looks like that Bruce (and his promoter) have the same problems as the Stones ten years ago.

- Doxa

Oh, Bruce doesn't, he's getting paid regardless winking smiley

Think it's too early to say that the Bruce tour is having problems moving tickets. I just randomly looked at some of the dates and the majority of tickets right now on Ticketmaster are "Verified Resale" tickets - meaning the tickets were already sold once and now scalpers are trying to flip them. Hell, for the majority of venues you can't even search for "Standard Admission"/face value tickets any longer, the only options available are either Platinum or Verified Resale. (Sure, you can find some 300's or behind-the-stage seats for face in a place like Tulsa, Oklahoma, but the best seats are long gone across the board).

(Now, some have suggested that Ticketmaster has been branding their own tickets as "Verified Resale" but I have no proof of that.)

Anyways, sorry for straying a bit off-topic here. My point is, the Bruce shows actually appear to have sold pretty well initially, despite the outrage over the prices.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-16 12:55 by Topi.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: September 16, 2022 13:05

Quote
Topi

So are you suggesting the Stones' ticket prices are going to go down?

Maybe? Prices for Pit-Tickets in Germany were cheaper in 2022 (€526) than in 2017 (€799). But in 2022 there were also these €776 TopSeats - [iorr.org] . VIP1-Ticket in 2022 was €799 instead of €1250 in 2017.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: hockenheim95 ()
Date: September 16, 2022 13:21

Quote
Irix
Quote
Topi

So are you suggesting the Stones' ticket prices are going to go down?

Maybe? Prices for Pit-Tickets in Germany were cheaper in 2022 (€526) than in 2017 (€799). But in 2022 there were also these €776 TopSeats - [iorr.org] . VIP1-Ticket in 2022 was €799 instead of €1250 in 2017.

But that were only the pit prices! Average tickets prices in Germany have been very constant since 2017 with higher average prices in smaller venues and lower average prices in bigger venues. Here are the box scores:

Year/venue/audience/earnings/average price per ticket
2017 Hamburg 81.193 | 11.954.300 | 147
2017 München 72.637 | 11.792.289 | 162
2017 Düsseldorf 43.295 | 8.487.199 | 196
2018 Berlin 67.295 | 12.113.470 | 180
2018 Stuttgart 43.291 | 8.785.685 | 203
2022 München 56.144 | 10.509.430 | 187
2022 Schalke 44.981 | 8.293.779 | 184
2022 Berlin 21.285 | 5.733.029 | 269



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-16 13:23 by hockenheim95.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 16, 2022 13:22

Do you know how the average ticket price in Germany compared between 2017/2018 and 2022?

EDIT: thank you, hockenheim95! smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-16 13:22 by Topi.

Re: Sixty tour in USA during Fall??
Posted by: Jeter1984 ()
Date: September 16, 2022 17:37

Quote
Hairball
With only 14 shows per each leg, they will surely return - overpriced tickets, and it's easy money.
Not sure when, but evidently they were scouting out venues according to someone who posts here (I think it was sdstonesguy?).
No new album, same old setlists, no matter to them...they will return.

How can something be 'overpriced' if it sells?

Is there a cheaper, discount version of the Stones I can see elsewhere?

Re: Sixty tour in USA during Fall??
Posted by: hockenheim95 ()
Date: September 16, 2022 18:00

Quote
Jeter1984
Quote
Hairball
With only 14 shows per each leg, they will surely return - overpriced tickets, and it's easy money.
Not sure when, but evidently they were scouting out venues according to someone who posts here (I think it was sdstonesguy?).
No new album, same old setlists, no matter to them...they will return.

How can something be 'overpriced' if it sells?

Is there a cheaper, discount version of the Stones I can see elsewhere?

They sold 16.000 less tickets in Munich 2022 compared to 2017. I would say that's quite a huge difference...and they tried in the end with discounted tickets.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: snoopy2 ()
Date: September 16, 2022 18:15

Quote
Irix
Quote
StonedRambler

Why should they play four shows with 20.000 people per concert if they can have a stadium show and play to the same 80.000 people all at once?

They could be more independent of the weather conditions in an arena and could play shows beyond the summer - e.g. like NYC/NJ in December 2012 or Tokyo in February 1990.

And then they would finally play Alaska! From what I understand Keith prefers colder weather anyway..

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Cooltoplady ()
Date: September 16, 2022 18:30

Quote
snoopy2
Quote
Irix
Quote
StonedRambler

Why should they play four shows with 20.000 people per concert if they can have a stadium show and play to the same 80.000 people all at once?

They could be more independent of the weather conditions in an arena and could play shows beyond the summer - e.g. like NYC/NJ in December 2012 or Tokyo in February 1990.

And then they would finally play Alaska! From what I understand Keith prefers colder weather anyway..

I don’t think there is one person in Alaska that likes The Stones. Too bad.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: September 17, 2022 01:20

Quote
Cooltoplady
Quote
snoopy2
Quote
Irix
Quote
StonedRambler

Why should they play four shows with 20.000 people per concert if they can have a stadium show and play to the same 80.000 people all at once?

They could be more independent of the weather conditions in an arena and could play shows beyond the summer - e.g. like NYC/NJ in December 2012 or Tokyo in February 1990.

And then they would finally play Alaska! From what I understand Keith prefers colder weather anyway..

I don’t think there is one person in Alaska that likes The Stones. Too bad.

I’m just thinking. Eric Clapton played at the Sullivan Sports Arena, Anchorage, on 14 October, 1985, on his way back from the Japan tour. To this day, it remains his one and only Alaskan concert. Back in the day, when British rockers toured Japan, they needed to travel via Anchorage, unless they flew in from North America or Oceania as part of a larger tour. After the Soviet Union broke up, they could fly over Eurasia to visit Japan, which served as a great benefit for them.
Sadly, with Putin’s War commencing, the Eurasian route has become unusable, again — for the time being, at least. I wonder if the Stones could give a chance to the Alaskans on their way to (or from) Japan/Oz/NZ like they did to the South Africans in 1995 and the Arabians in 2014.

Are there any IORR forum members in Alaska?

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Date: September 19, 2022 00:02

While nothing is set in stone, word is the (very) rough plans are Japan, Australia and New Zealand in Feb, and/or Mar, or Apr 2023. Perhaps 7 shows in Japan; 5 Australia, 2 in NZ.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: mariano ()
Date: September 19, 2022 01:19

smoking smiley

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: September 19, 2022 02:48

Quote
fareastlansingman
While nothing is set in stone, word is the (very) rough plans are Japan, Australia and New Zealand in Feb, and/or Mar, or Apr 2023. Perhaps 7 shows in Japan; 5 Australia, 2 in NZ.

I’d be pleased to hear a Japan tour materialize next year, but I’m not holding my breath TBHWY. If it does, I highly doubt the Stones will play as many as seven shows, given the country’s ongoing economic declines. Tokyo x 2, Osaka x 1 would be more realistic.

Re: Sixty tour in USA during Fall??
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: September 19, 2022 06:38

Quote
hockenheim95
Quote
Jeter1984
Quote
Hairball
With only 14 shows per each leg, they will surely return - overpriced tickets, and it's easy money.
Not sure when, but evidently they were scouting out venues according to someone who posts here (I think it was sdstonesguy?).
No new album, same old setlists, no matter to them...they will return.

How can something be 'overpriced' if it sells?

Is there a cheaper, discount version of the Stones I can see elsewhere?

They sold 16.000 less tickets in Munich 2022 compared to 2017. I would say that's quite a huge difference...and they tried in the end with discounted tickets.

If that's not a huge difference it's certainly a substantial difference. 16,000 less is 16,000 less. That's not closing off a couple of rows.

Re: Sixty tour in USA during Fall??
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: September 19, 2022 09:38

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
hockenheim95
Quote
Jeter1984
Quote
Hairball
With only 14 shows per each leg, they will surely return - overpriced tickets, and it's easy money.
Not sure when, but evidently they were scouting out venues according to someone who posts here (I think it was sdstonesguy?).
No new album, same old setlists, no matter to them...they will return.

How can something be 'overpriced' if it sells?

Is there a cheaper, discount version of the Stones I can see elsewhere?

They sold 16.000 less tickets in Munich 2022 compared to 2017. I would say that's quite a huge difference...and they tried in the end with discounted tickets.

If that's not a huge difference it's certainly a substantial difference. 16,000 less is 16,000 less. That's not closing off a couple of rows.

20% less is a huge difference!

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 19, 2022 09:50

Now I knew Munich wasn't a sellout, but 16,000 unsold seats is a surprisingly high figure. It didn't look that empty.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: hockenheim95 ()
Date: September 19, 2022 10:07

Quote
Topi
Now I knew Munich wasn't a sellout, but 16,000 unsold seats is a surprisingly high figure. It didn't look that empty.

Eventim knows how to make a stadium look like a sellout. When they start to realize that they won't sell all tickets they start to take every second row out of sale.

Then they give tickets away for radio competitions or even to companies that give them to their employees.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: September 19, 2022 10:12

European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: September 19, 2022 10:18

Quote
AntoineParis
European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

Always the European tour with final London shows. I don't think there will ever be a final tour. Either Mick or Keith would have to pass away. Would Charlie have liked his last concert to have been at a Hard Rock in Miami? We'll never know.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: September 19, 2022 12:51

Quote
24FPS
Quote
AntoineParis
European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

Always the European tour with final London shows. I don't think there will ever be a final tour. Either Mick or Keith would have to pass away. Would Charlie have liked his last concert to have been at a Hard Rock in Miami? We'll never know.

I'm not speaking about an official "Final Tour". It's just the way they're gonna closed the stadium circus era.
We will see... winking smiley

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: September 19, 2022 12:52

Quote
AntoineParis
European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

makes sense. But I guess you mean next summer

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: September 19, 2022 13:40

Quote
hockenheim95
Quote
Topi
Now I knew Munich wasn't a sellout, but 16,000 unsold seats is a surprisingly high figure. It didn't look that empty.

Eventim knows how to make a stadium look like a sellout. When they start to realize that they won't sell all tickets they start to take every second row out of sale.

Then they give tickets away for radio competitions or even to companies that give them to their employees.

Even though Munich 2022 had some empty seats I think the main difference here is that Munich 2017 had a much larger GA arera while Munich 2022 had half the stadium full of reserved seats.

So I guess that is the main reason why Munich had 2022 had a lower capacity. With a larger GA area you simply get more people in there.



Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 19, 2022 14:33

Good point. But if we think the Munich concerts financially (I guess it usually makes sense in regard to the Stones doings), the decision to reduce the GA area was not a wise move. In 2017 they grossed 11,8 million dollars, five years later 'only' 10,5 million dollars (going against the overall tendency them making more money this time in Europe than ever). Usually the pattern is: more expensive seats, less cheap GA: more money.

I guess the leading idea by the promoter is to maximise the profits. Probably this time the tickets were overall a bit too expensive generally to make a best possible result, at least if compared to 2017 result with slightly cheaper tickets. Then we have to remember how much the lack of 16000 people affect to the merchandise sales, etc. Setting the 'right' price is fine arts these days, and sometimes it doesn't quite hit the target perfectly. (To speculate: it could be that they thought they sold out the stadium 'too easily' in 2017, so they thought they could do the same with higher ticket prices in 2022.)

Of course, another thing is how much the actual demand and interest seeing the band in a same venue decreased in five years (difficult to estimate).

But then again, I think all of them can survive with only 10,5 million bucks earnings... grinning smiley

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-19 14:57 by Doxa.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: September 19, 2022 14:56

Quote
Doxa
Good point. But if we think the Munich concerts financially (I guess it usually makes sense in regard to the Stones doings), the decision to reduce the GA area was not a wise move. In 2017 they grossed 11,8 million dollars, five years later 'only' 10,5 million dollars (going against the overall tendency them making more money this time in Europe than ever). Usually the pattern is: more expensive seats, less cheap GA: more money.

I guess the leading idea by the promoter is to maximise the profits. Probably this time the tickets were overall a bit too expensive generally to make a best possible result, at least if compared to 2017 result with slightly cheaper tickets. Then we have to remember how much the lack of 16000 people affect to the merchandise sales, etc. Setting the 'right' price is fine arts these days, and sometimes it doesn't quite hit the target perfectly.

Of course, another thing is how much the actual demand and interest seeing the band in a same venue decreased in five years (difficult to estimate).

But then again, I think all of them can survive with only 10,5 million bucks earnings... grinning smiley

- Doxa

but they lowered the price for pit by nearly 300 Euros – which may explain at least a part of the diffence

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: September 19, 2022 15:11

Quote
AntoineParis
European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

AntoineParis, I have a question. You often behave like a bearer of insider information. I don’t necessarily doubt the authenticity of the information you bring along on this board and I refer to that with interest, for which I thank you.

On the other hand, back in March you posted the following comment regarding a possible additional show between the two Hyde Park dates:

Quote
AntoineParis
Re: RAH gig
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: March 20, 2022 12:21

A gig between hyde park gigs ? Sure

RAH ? Sure no, another place in London

Obviously this didn’t materialize. Can you please elaborate on the matter for us?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-19 15:13 by RisingStone.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 19, 2022 15:17

Quote
slewan


but they lowered the price for pit by nearly 300 Euros – which may explain at least a part of the diffence

If you mean that by comparison to 2017, it could be that they had difficulties in selling those then, so they needed to reduce the price (and there were a lot of very lucky lucky dippers in 2017 grinning smiley). But how much the pit section actually matters financially in a stadium of, say, 70 000 capacity, is another thing.

- Doxa

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: September 19, 2022 15:25

Quote
RisingStone
Quote
AntoineParis
European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

AntoineParis, I have a question. You often behave like a bearer of insider information. I don’t necessarily doubt the authenticity of the information you bring along on this board and I refer to that with interest, for which I thank you.

On the other hand, back in March you posted the following comment regarding a possible additional show between the two Hyde Park dates:

Quote
AntoineParis
Re: RAH gig
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: March 20, 2022 12:21

A gig between hyde park gigs ? Sure

RAH ? Sure no, another place in London

Obviously this didn’t materialize. Can you please elaborate on the matter for us?

I've seen this behaviour from AntoineParis a lot of times during the recent tour as well. Making claims that sound as if he was an insider but a lot of those claims didn't necessarily turn out to be true. I don't know him or if he has any direct connection to the Stones people but my observation is that I would rather take some of his statements with a grain of salt.

Re: Stones tour plans 2023
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: September 19, 2022 15:54

Quote
StonedRambler
Quote
RisingStone
Quote
AntoineParis
European Tour this summer with final London Shows. That's all. Just that. No more gigs after that.

AntoineParis, I have a question. You often behave like a bearer of insider information. I don’t necessarily doubt the authenticity of the information you bring along on this board and I refer to that with interest, for which I thank you.

On the other hand, back in March you posted the following comment regarding a possible additional show between the two Hyde Park dates:

Quote
AntoineParis
Re: RAH gig
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: March 20, 2022 12:21

A gig between hyde park gigs ? Sure

RAH ? Sure no, another place in London

Obviously this didn’t materialize. Can you please elaborate on the matter for us?

I've seen this behaviour from AntoineParis a lot of times during the recent tour as well. Making claims that sound as if he was an insider but a lot of those claims didn't necessarily turn out to be true. I don't know him or if he has any direct connection to the Stones people but my observation is that I would rather take some of his statements with a grain of salt.

Another poster who comments like an insider is Oriongalaxy. His post upthread coincides with AntoineParis’s in that the Stones will play Europe next year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-19 15:58 by RisingStone.

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