Tell Me :
Talk
You mean the Virgin pressings? I think that was more '93.
I do. OK well I was unaware of their existence until after I first saw the band live in ‘97 and went looking for more albums and found all those miniature replicas. Either way I’d thought they were the definitive sounding versions of those albums, no?
Get dis one ........ Platinum SHM
UICY-40011
ROCKMAN
I know they were very well loved when originally released but I've seen some discussion here and comparisons of sound charts which has them a bit overly compressed.
Don't trust your ears...believe in the charts! ha ha.
[www.discogs.com]
"It's Only R 'n R" is one of my very favorite Stones albums.
The DSD flat transfer has "Fingerprint File" at the correct speed. "Luxury" has
more Mick Taylor lead guitar at the end. "Time Waits for No one" is slightly longer.
"Tattoo You" I can't recommend a CD.
What do our critics say about the 2020 release of Tattoo You compared to the 1981 mix, etc...
There is a Tattoo You LP from 1981 Japan hailed as the best from the 1981 mixes. I'll research it and report back.
Have you heard Taylor's tasty vibrato ? I didn't. That's Richards to me, a completely different approach than Taylor.
Amazing, throughout the entire song. One of Taylor's best moments in the Studio imo.
He used a whammy bar during the solo and some other parts instead. But it's still there a little. For a little price: towards the end of the song his guitar gets slightly out of tune - you can hear it at ca 3:52.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 23:24 by TheflyingDutchman.
At least I don't hear Taylor at all.
I got UIC-79247 Tattoo You SHM CD, and it sounds fantastic.
No, there are no boxes with flat transfers yet. Unless they will issue the discs mentioned above as a box for 60th anniversary.
PS. If you are talking about London-Decca period there are 10 CDs that allegedly were made basing on flat transfers prepared by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab in 1984. These are:
1. Beggars Banquet [800 084-2]
2. The Rolling Stones [820 047-2] (only early editions from glass master 01 #)
3. 12 x 5 [820 048-2]
4. Out Of Our Heads (US) [820 049-2]
5. Hot Rocks 1 [820 141-2] (only early editions from glass masters 01 * and 02 #)
6. Hot Rocks 2 [820 142-2]
7. Aftermath (UK) [820 050-2]
8. Between The Buttons (US) [820 138-2]
9. Their Satanic Majesties Request [820 129-2]
10. Let It Bleed [820 052-2] (only early editions from glass master 01 *)
The rest of that series probably were also flat transferred. Well, at least they were mastered less aggressively comparing to 2002 and 2016 Ludwig's remasters.
11.‘Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out!’ [820 131-2]
12. Now! [820 133-2]
13. Decembers Children [820 135-2]
14. got LIVE if you want it! [820 137-2]
15. Flowers [820 139-2]
16. More Hot Rocks 1 [820 515-2]
17. More Hot Rocks 2 [820 516-2]
On the other hand they have tons of artifacts from the tapes (clicks, pops, glitches etc.) that were not cleaned during production.
Actually
The Rolling Stones – Tattoo You 1981
Catalog: UICY-79247
Media: SHM-CD
Country: Japan only
Release date: December 4, 2020
Barcode: 4988031397602
Series: Commemorative release to celebrate the 30th anniversary of The Rolling Stones' first performance in Japan.
Packaging: Paper jacket + inner sleeve, reproduction of the first edition of British LP; Poster; Miniature reproduction of first edition Japanese LP Wrapped OBI + series OBI; Additional Japanese booklet with commentary and lyrics in English and Japanese. SHM-CD in protective plastic sleeve. Packed in outer re-sealable plastic sleeve + New Music Fridays sticker.
Matrix: UICY-40002-2 H1T [4xUniversal logo]
SID Mastering code: IFPI L236
SID Mould code: IFPI 4011
JVC Japan pressing
Glass master was first used for preparation of SHM-platinum CD [UICY-40002]
Mastering:
Tape research: Mick McKenna
DSD flat transferred from UK original master tapes by Mick McKenna and Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London, in 2011
Edited in DSD by Masaru Tkagi (SIProject) at Sunrise Studios, Tokyo, in 2011
176.4kHz/24bit transferred from DSD by Yumetoki Suzuki at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, in 2013
HR (High Resolution) cutting from 176.4kHz/24bit at Victor Creative Media, in 2013
Track List
Number-Title Time Dynamic Range (DR)
01-Start Me Up 3:35 DR14
02-Hang Fire 2:22 DR13
03-Slave (Short LP version) 4:56 DR14
04-Little T & A 3:25 DR12
05-Black Limousine 3:35 DR11
06-Neighbours 3:35 DR14
07-Worried About You 5:18 DR14
08-Tops 3:49 DR13
09-Heaven 4:23 DR14
10-No Use In Crying 3:27 DR14
11-Waiting On A Friend 4:36 DR13
Official DR value: DR13
This edition is digital clone to earlier versions SHM-platinum CD [UICY-40002] and SHM-CD [UICY- 75763].
Comparison to other editions:
Toshiba-EMI, 1983 - Official DR value: DR13
CD CBS, 1986 - Official DR value: DR13
CD Virgin, 1994 - Official DR value: DR12
CD UM, 2009 - Official DR value: DR8
SHM-CD, 2020 - Official DR value: DR13
CD UM 40th Anniversary remaster, 2021 - Official DR value: DR5
Track 03-Slave is presented here in short LP version. It is in this form on the very first 1983 CD by Toshiba-EMI [CP35-3032] and CBS CD (no matter country of origin). Long version (6.32) can be found on Virgin and Polydor/UM CDs.
Mastering
Because the album was collected from leftovers recorded over a decade the sound of the disc is patchy, although, attempts to put everything on the same page were done starting 1980-1981.
Three editions of Tattoo You on CD came with short version of Track 03-Slave. And they are close in terms of loudness. These are Toshiba-EMI 1983, CBS 1986 and those based on flat transfer 2011. Japanese ‘black triangle’ Toshiba-EMI CD from 1983 is the quietest one in this group. Tonally bass is less pronounced and there is a jack up above ~10kHz with respect to flat transfer. These features are about the same for all tracks. Either equalized dub tape was used for preparation of this CD or that unique equalization was applied during postproduction to make the CD sound more Hi-Fi. It is to be mentioned that for Toshiba-EMI version there is loud vinyl-like ‘pop’ in the right channel on the mark 0.03 in ‘Start Me Up’. It is absent for all other editions. One can drive a conspiracy theory that Toshiba-EMI version was made from vinyl needledrop. But this is pure speculation. There is virtually no information about tapes that were used and mastering techniques for that 1983-made Japanese CD (which is the very first CD of The Rolling Stones in the world). Although Toshiba-EMI CD is the closest one to flat transfer, the latter sounds better, cleaner, and more neutral. CBS CD is the second close to flat transfer in terms of loudness. It is just slightly louder. However, it is heavily equalized. It looks that CBS CD was treated one track at the time, because the equalization profiles are different for individual tracks with respect to flat transfer.
Virgin 1994 and both UM 2009 and 2021 came with long version of Track 03-Slave. Virgin re-master included additional compressing/clipping and equalizing. It is ~4dB louder than flat transfer, has boost around 200Hz and an increase above 8kHz for all tracks. For some reason for tracks 8-12 trebles were rolled off above 12kHz after initial jack up. This is really weird, as if the latter tracks were done using different mastering approach. The sound of Virgin CD is punchy, it has more boom and brilliance. But simultaneously it is harsher comparing to flat transfer. It is good remaster for rock CD but no audiophile candy. However, many people love this type of sound. Virgin CD is reasonably loud, it roars, you know. But one can find this version too ‘digital’ and boosted.
Both UM versions are over processed and brickwalled. For UM 2009 one can find certain similarities in equalizing choices with Virgin 1994 but it is even more loud and compressed. New 2021 version, on contrary, is ‘Frankenstein-type’ with ridiculous compression (average dynamic range 5) and loudness (~12dB added with respect to flat transfer), but some tracks were mastered almost flat and stay in sync with flat transfer. It seems that apart of Track 03-Slave the rest of the material was originated from flat transfer (or from the tape used for flat transfer in 2011) but a lot of harm was done in digital domain. In terms of sound quality SHM-CD is miles away from butchered UM remasters.
Toshiba-EMI 1983, CBS 1986, Virgin 1994, UM 2009, and flat transfer 2011-based CDs do not stay in sync with each other, playback speed slightly varies from track to track and from disc to disc. For example, side 1 of the LP is almost in sync for Toshiba-EMI 1983 and flat transfer 2011-based CDs, but for side 2 the playback is a notch faster for flat transfer. If one will synchronize a track from LP side 2 for those CDs at the opening lick, by the end of the track the flat transfer 2011 will be appr. 0.5 sec. ahead with respect to Toshiba-EMI 1983. However, these differences are not that critical for a casual listener.
Bottom line:
‘Tattoo You’ is another messy CD. It seems that every mastering engineer tried to improve the sound quality using own (specific and individual) approach. The results varied from bad to widely acclaimed. But in all re-incarnations, it is no audiophile experience. If you want to have the best possible representation of the original master tape unmolested by additional mastering (and a poster) head for SHM-CD prepared from flat transfer. Otherwise, be ready to invest €€€ in Toshiba-EMI ‘black triangle’ CD (w/o poster). CBS and Virgin versions are also good and have merits on their own. These are much cheaper and easy to get. However, if long version of Track 03-Slave is crucial, the sole good sounding option is 1994 Virgin CD.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-30 17:33 by ironbelly.
Thanks for the graph. I'll use it for further purchases whenever one comes up at a decent price. I do have the Steel Wheels UICY-20202, and it's not impressive.
With Steel Wheels you can safely stick to old CBS or Virgin CD. Actually, Virgin CD in this case is = to CBS CD + appr. 1.4 dB in loudness + some minor clipping. Nothing else was done in 1998, there was no remix and no equalization changes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-31 16:37 by ironbelly.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: May 29, 2022 05:51
I got some excellent advice here on which Tattoo You SHM CD to buy. It sounds great. I'm considering buying Sticky Finger in the same format. Does anyone know which edition is best? There's two options, a Spanish version that's the cheapest, and the known one. Does anyone know which UIC number is the best? Thank you.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: May 29, 2022 06:23
Are there improvements on their 70’s catalog? I was under the impression that the 71-81 studio albums were best in the miniature LP versions that were done in the late 90’s. Is that no longer the case?
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 29, 2022 06:46
Quote
VoodooLounge13
Are there improvements on their 70’s catalog? I was under the impression that the 71-81 studio albums were best in the miniature LP versions that were done in the late 90’s. Is that no longer the case?
You mean the Virgin pressings? I think that was more '93.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: May 29, 2022 07:23
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
VoodooLounge13
Are there improvements on their 70’s catalog? I was under the impression that the 71-81 studio albums were best in the miniature LP versions that were done in the late 90’s. Is that no longer the case?
You mean the Virgin pressings? I think that was more '93.
I do. OK well I was unaware of their existence until after I first saw the band live in ‘97 and went looking for more albums and found all those miniature replicas. Either way I’d thought they were the definitive sounding versions of those albums, no?
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: May 29, 2022 08:41
Get dis one ........ Platinum SHM
UICY-40011
ROCKMAN
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 29, 2022 17:45
Quote
VoodooLounge13Quote
treaclefingersQuote
VoodooLounge13
Are there improvements on their 70’s catalog? I was under the impression that the 71-81 studio albums were best in the miniature LP versions that were done in the late 90’s. Is that no longer the case?
You mean the Virgin pressings? I think that was more '93.
I do. OK well I was unaware of their existence until after I first saw the band live in ‘97 and went looking for more albums and found all those miniature replicas. Either way I’d thought they were the definitive sounding versions of those albums, no?
I know they were very well loved when originally released but I've seen some discussion here and comparisons of sound charts which has them a bit overly compressed.
Don't trust your ears...believe in the charts! ha ha.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: May 29, 2022 18:26
The platinum SHMs are great. The flat transfers are the best to my ears. Exile sounds like the Exile I grew up with.
[www.discogs.com]
The platinum editions are very well respected.
DSD flat transferred from UK original analogue master tapes at FX Copyroom, London, 2011.
Edited in DSD at Sunrise Studio, Tokyo, 2011.
176.4kHz/24bit transferred from DSD at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, 2013.
High-Resolution cutting from 176.4kHz/24bit at Victor Creative Media, 2013.
[www.discogs.com]
[www.discogs.com]
The platinum editions are very well respected.
DSD flat transferred from UK original analogue master tapes at FX Copyroom, London, 2011.
Edited in DSD at Sunrise Studio, Tokyo, 2011.
176.4kHz/24bit transferred from DSD at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, 2013.
High-Resolution cutting from 176.4kHz/24bit at Victor Creative Media, 2013.
[www.discogs.com]
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: May 29, 2022 18:30
[www.discogs.com]
"It's Only R 'n R" is one of my very favorite Stones albums.
The DSD flat transfer has "Fingerprint File" at the correct speed. "Luxury" has
more Mick Taylor lead guitar at the end. "Time Waits for No one" is slightly longer.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: May 29, 2022 18:35
"Tattoo You" I can't recommend a CD.
What do our critics say about the 2020 release of Tattoo You compared to the 1981 mix, etc...
There is a Tattoo You LP from 1981 Japan hailed as the best from the 1981 mixes. I'll research it and report back.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: May 29, 2022 19:44
Here is the list of CDs with catalog numbers that were prepared as flat transfer from UK original master tapes.
These are arguably the best sounding versions. Although, Some Girls, Steel Wheels and Flashpoint got some criticism.
UICY-40011 mentioned by Rockman came in the fanciest package of them all. But SHM-CD platinum can have some playback problems with older CD players due to low reflection rate of platinum layer.
Mind, that only UICY-79241 is available on cdjapan. The rest are out of print and hard to get/overpriced on the secondary market
Mind also, that SHM-SACDs are single layer discs that can be played only on SACD player (not regular one)
All other UICY editions (including Spanish version) came with an inferior 2009 Marcussen's brickwalled remaster.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 19:44 by ironbelly.
These are arguably the best sounding versions. Although, Some Girls, Steel Wheels and Flashpoint got some criticism.
UICY-40011 mentioned by Rockman came in the fanciest package of them all. But SHM-CD platinum can have some playback problems with older CD players due to low reflection rate of platinum layer.
Mind, that only UICY-79241 is available on cdjapan. The rest are out of print and hard to get/overpriced on the secondary market
Mind also, that SHM-SACDs are single layer discs that can be played only on SACD player (not regular one)
All other UICY editions (including Spanish version) came with an inferior 2009 Marcussen's brickwalled remaster.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 19:44 by ironbelly.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 29, 2022 20:13
According to people on this website, Keith plays all the guitars on Luxury.I disagree, the lead guitar at the end sounds nothing like Keith.He never played like that.And he never played lead guitar live on LuxuryQuote
exilestones
[www.discogs.com]
"It's Only R 'n R" is one of my very favorite Stones albums.
The DSD flat transfer has "Fingerprint File" at the correct speed. "Luxury" has
more Mick Taylor lead guitar at the end. "Time Waits for No one" is slightly longer.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 29, 2022 20:24
Quote
Taylor1
According to people on this website, Keith plays all the guitars on Luxury.I disagree, the lead guitar at the end sounds nothing like Keith.He never played like that.And he never played lead guitar live on Luxury
Have you heard Taylor's tasty vibrato ? I didn't. That's Richards to me, a completely different approach than Taylor.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 29, 2022 20:29
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
According to people on this website, Keith plays all the guitars on Luxury.I disagree, the lead guitar at the end sounds nothing like Keith.He never played like that.And he never played lead guitar live on Luxury
Have you heard Taylor's tasty vibrato ? I didn't. That's Richards to me, a completely different approach than Taylor.[/quote. Taylor lead on Dance Little Sister and Don’t Lie to Me,live,1972,sounds similar.Keith never played that fluidly.And ifhe is playing lead, why didn’t he ever play it live? Oh ,I know Tumbling Dice.Please show me one song where Keith plays lead guitar like the one at the end of Luxury
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 20:33 by Taylor1.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 29, 2022 20:32
On "Short and Curlies" you hear Keith"s lead going into Taylor's direction, or the other way round. WtF.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 20:39 by TheflyingDutchman.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 20:39 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 29, 2022 20:38
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanWhat about Taylor’s solo in Dance Little Sister or All Down the Line .All Down the Line solo doesn’t have that vibrato.It sounds like the guitar in Luxury.And Dance Little Sister?The rhythm guitar on Luxury sound like Keith?I can’t think of one song where Keith plays like the solo in LuxuryQuote
Taylor1Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
According to people on this website, Keith plays all the guitars on Luxury.I disagree, the lead guitar at the end sounds nothing like Keith.He never played like that.And he never played lead guitar live on Luxury
Have you heard Taylor's tasty vibrato ? I didn't. That's Richards to me, a completely different approach than Taylor.[/quote.Taylor lead on Dance Little Sister and Don’t Lie to Me,live,1972,sounds similar.Keith never played that fluidly.And ifhe is playing lead, why didn’t he ever play it live? Oh ,I know Tumbling Dice.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 20:39 by Taylor1.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 29, 2022 20:42
Quote
Taylor1Quote
TheflyingDutchmanWhat about Taylor’s solo in Dance Little Sister or All Down the Line .All Down the Line solo doesn’t have that vibrato.It sounds like the guitar in Luxury.And Dance Little Sister?The rhythm guitar on Luxury sound like Keith?I can’t think of one song where Keith plays like the solo in LuxuryQuote
Taylor1Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
According to people on this website, Keith plays all the guitars on Luxury.I disagree, the lead guitar at the end sounds nothing like Keith.He never played like that.And he never played lead guitar live on Luxury
Have you heard Taylor's tasty vibrato ? I didn't. That's Richards to me, a completely different approach than Taylor.[/quote.Taylor lead on Dance Little Sister and Don’t Lie to Me,live,1972,sounds similar.Keith never played that fluidly.And ifhe is playing lead, why didn’t he ever play it live? Oh ,I know Tumbling Dice.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith.
Don't fret, read my previous post.:On "Short and Curlies" you hear Keith"s lead going into Taylor's direction, or the other way round. WtF.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith. "All down the Line" is Taylor on slide, not his typical "finger vibrato".
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 29, 2022 22:11
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanWhat aboutTaylor’s guitar on Dance Little SisterQuote
Taylor1Quote
TheflyingDutchmanWhat about Taylor’s solo in Dance Little Sister or All Down the Line .All Down the Line solo doesn’t have that vibrato.It sounds like the guitar in Luxury.And Dance Little Sister?The rhythm guitar on Luxury sound like Keith?I can’t think of one song where Keith plays like the solo in LuxuryQuote
Taylor1Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
According to people on this website, Keith plays all the guitars on Luxury.I disagree, the lead guitar at the end sounds nothing like Keith.He never played like that.And he never played lead guitar live on Luxury
Have you heard Taylor's tasty vibrato ? I didn't. That's Richards to me, a completely different approach than Taylor.[/quote.Taylor lead on Dance Little Sister and Don’t Lie to Me,live,1972,sounds similar.Keith never played that fluidly.And ifhe is playing lead, why didn’t he ever play it live? Oh ,I know Tumbling Dice.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith.
Don't fret, read my previous post.:On "Short and Curlies" you hear Keith"s lead going into Taylor's direction, or the other way round. WtF.
Listen to "If You Really Want To Be My Friend". That's a typical Taylor guitar solo. Melodic approach and vibrato, very different than Keith. "All down the Line" is Taylor on slide, not his typical "finger vibrato".
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 29, 2022 22:17
Quote
Taylor1
What aboutTaylor’s guitar on Dance Little Sister
Amazing, throughout the entire song. One of Taylor's best moments in the Studio imo.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 29, 2022 22:24
But where is the vibratoQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
What aboutTaylor’s guitar on Dance Little Sister
Amazing, throughout the entire song. One of Taylor's best moments in the Studio imo.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 29, 2022 23:08
Quote
Taylor1But where is the vibratoQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
What aboutTaylor’s guitar on Dance Little Sister
Amazing, throughout the entire song. One of Taylor's best moments in the Studio imo.
He used a whammy bar during the solo and some other parts instead. But it's still there a little. For a little price: towards the end of the song his guitar gets slightly out of tune - you can hear it at ca 3:52.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-29 23:24 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 30, 2022 01:02
There are at least 2other guitars on Luxury.Are they Keith?Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1But where is the vibratoQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
What aboutTaylor’s guitar on Dance Little Sister
Amazing, throughout the entire song. One of Taylor's best moments in the Studio imo.
He used a whammy bar during the solo and some other parts instead. But it's still there a little. For a little price: towards the end of the song his guitar gets slightly out of tune - you can hear it at ca 3:52.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 30, 2022 01:09
Quote
Taylor1There are at least 2other guitars on Luxury.Are they Keith?Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1But where is the vibratoQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
What aboutTaylor’s guitar on Dance Little Sister
Amazing, throughout the entire song. One of Taylor's best moments in the Studio imo.
He used a whammy bar during the solo and some other parts instead. But it's still there a little. For a little price: towards the end of the song his guitar gets slightly out of tune - you can hear it at ca 3:52.
At least I don't hear Taylor at all.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: May 30, 2022 06:56
I refuse to rebuy all these again lol
What about any of the expensive box sets that have been done? Do they have the flat transfers or no?
What about any of the expensive box sets that have been done? Do they have the flat transfers or no?
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: May 30, 2022 10:23
Quote
exilestones
"Tattoo You" I can't recommend a CD.
What do our critics say about the 2020 release of Tattoo You compared to the 1981 mix, etc...
There is a Tattoo You LP from 1981 Japan hailed as the best from the 1981 mixes. I'll research it and report back.
I got UIC-79247 Tattoo You SHM CD, and it sounds fantastic.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: May 30, 2022 11:03
Nobody force you to rebuy. But you'll do it anyway. It is in our natureQuote
VoodooLounge13
I refuse to rebuy all these again lol
What about any of the expensive box sets that have been done? Do they have the flat transfers or no?
No, there are no boxes with flat transfers yet. Unless they will issue the discs mentioned above as a box for 60th anniversary.
PS. If you are talking about London-Decca period there are 10 CDs that allegedly were made basing on flat transfers prepared by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab in 1984. These are:
1. Beggars Banquet [800 084-2]
2. The Rolling Stones [820 047-2] (only early editions from glass master 01 #)
3. 12 x 5 [820 048-2]
4. Out Of Our Heads (US) [820 049-2]
5. Hot Rocks 1 [820 141-2] (only early editions from glass masters 01 * and 02 #)
6. Hot Rocks 2 [820 142-2]
7. Aftermath (UK) [820 050-2]
8. Between The Buttons (US) [820 138-2]
9. Their Satanic Majesties Request [820 129-2]
10. Let It Bleed [820 052-2] (only early editions from glass master 01 *)
The rest of that series probably were also flat transferred. Well, at least they were mastered less aggressively comparing to 2002 and 2016 Ludwig's remasters.
11.‘Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out!’ [820 131-2]
12. Now! [820 133-2]
13. Decembers Children [820 135-2]
14. got LIVE if you want it! [820 137-2]
15. Flowers [820 139-2]
16. More Hot Rocks 1 [820 515-2]
17. More Hot Rocks 2 [820 516-2]
On the other hand they have tons of artifacts from the tapes (clicks, pops, glitches etc.) that were not cleaned during production.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: May 30, 2022 11:25
Quote
24FPSQuote
exilestones
"Tattoo You" I can't recommend a CD.
What do our critics say about the 2020 release of Tattoo You compared to the 1981 mix, etc...
There is a Tattoo You LP from 1981 Japan hailed as the best from the 1981 mixes. I'll research it and report back.
I got UIC-79247 Tattoo You SHM CD, and it sounds fantastic.
Actually
The Rolling Stones – Tattoo You 1981
Catalog: UICY-79247
Media: SHM-CD
Country: Japan only
Release date: December 4, 2020
Barcode: 4988031397602
Series: Commemorative release to celebrate the 30th anniversary of The Rolling Stones' first performance in Japan.
Packaging: Paper jacket + inner sleeve, reproduction of the first edition of British LP; Poster; Miniature reproduction of first edition Japanese LP Wrapped OBI + series OBI; Additional Japanese booklet with commentary and lyrics in English and Japanese. SHM-CD in protective plastic sleeve. Packed in outer re-sealable plastic sleeve + New Music Fridays sticker.
Matrix: UICY-40002-2 H1T [4xUniversal logo]
SID Mastering code: IFPI L236
SID Mould code: IFPI 4011
JVC Japan pressing
Glass master was first used for preparation of SHM-platinum CD [UICY-40002]
Mastering:
Tape research: Mick McKenna
DSD flat transferred from UK original master tapes by Mick McKenna and Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London, in 2011
Edited in DSD by Masaru Tkagi (SIProject) at Sunrise Studios, Tokyo, in 2011
176.4kHz/24bit transferred from DSD by Yumetoki Suzuki at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, in 2013
HR (High Resolution) cutting from 176.4kHz/24bit at Victor Creative Media, in 2013
Track List
Number-Title Time Dynamic Range (DR)
01-Start Me Up 3:35 DR14
02-Hang Fire 2:22 DR13
03-Slave (Short LP version) 4:56 DR14
04-Little T & A 3:25 DR12
05-Black Limousine 3:35 DR11
06-Neighbours 3:35 DR14
07-Worried About You 5:18 DR14
08-Tops 3:49 DR13
09-Heaven 4:23 DR14
10-No Use In Crying 3:27 DR14
11-Waiting On A Friend 4:36 DR13
Official DR value: DR13
This edition is digital clone to earlier versions SHM-platinum CD [UICY-40002] and SHM-CD [UICY- 75763].
Comparison to other editions:
Toshiba-EMI, 1983 - Official DR value: DR13
CD CBS, 1986 - Official DR value: DR13
CD Virgin, 1994 - Official DR value: DR12
CD UM, 2009 - Official DR value: DR8
SHM-CD, 2020 - Official DR value: DR13
CD UM 40th Anniversary remaster, 2021 - Official DR value: DR5
Track 03-Slave is presented here in short LP version. It is in this form on the very first 1983 CD by Toshiba-EMI [CP35-3032] and CBS CD (no matter country of origin). Long version (6.32) can be found on Virgin and Polydor/UM CDs.
Mastering
Because the album was collected from leftovers recorded over a decade the sound of the disc is patchy, although, attempts to put everything on the same page were done starting 1980-1981.
Three editions of Tattoo You on CD came with short version of Track 03-Slave. And they are close in terms of loudness. These are Toshiba-EMI 1983, CBS 1986 and those based on flat transfer 2011. Japanese ‘black triangle’ Toshiba-EMI CD from 1983 is the quietest one in this group. Tonally bass is less pronounced and there is a jack up above ~10kHz with respect to flat transfer. These features are about the same for all tracks. Either equalized dub tape was used for preparation of this CD or that unique equalization was applied during postproduction to make the CD sound more Hi-Fi. It is to be mentioned that for Toshiba-EMI version there is loud vinyl-like ‘pop’ in the right channel on the mark 0.03 in ‘Start Me Up’. It is absent for all other editions. One can drive a conspiracy theory that Toshiba-EMI version was made from vinyl needledrop. But this is pure speculation. There is virtually no information about tapes that were used and mastering techniques for that 1983-made Japanese CD (which is the very first CD of The Rolling Stones in the world). Although Toshiba-EMI CD is the closest one to flat transfer, the latter sounds better, cleaner, and more neutral. CBS CD is the second close to flat transfer in terms of loudness. It is just slightly louder. However, it is heavily equalized. It looks that CBS CD was treated one track at the time, because the equalization profiles are different for individual tracks with respect to flat transfer.
Virgin 1994 and both UM 2009 and 2021 came with long version of Track 03-Slave. Virgin re-master included additional compressing/clipping and equalizing. It is ~4dB louder than flat transfer, has boost around 200Hz and an increase above 8kHz for all tracks. For some reason for tracks 8-12 trebles were rolled off above 12kHz after initial jack up. This is really weird, as if the latter tracks were done using different mastering approach. The sound of Virgin CD is punchy, it has more boom and brilliance. But simultaneously it is harsher comparing to flat transfer. It is good remaster for rock CD but no audiophile candy. However, many people love this type of sound. Virgin CD is reasonably loud, it roars, you know. But one can find this version too ‘digital’ and boosted.
Both UM versions are over processed and brickwalled. For UM 2009 one can find certain similarities in equalizing choices with Virgin 1994 but it is even more loud and compressed. New 2021 version, on contrary, is ‘Frankenstein-type’ with ridiculous compression (average dynamic range 5) and loudness (~12dB added with respect to flat transfer), but some tracks were mastered almost flat and stay in sync with flat transfer. It seems that apart of Track 03-Slave the rest of the material was originated from flat transfer (or from the tape used for flat transfer in 2011) but a lot of harm was done in digital domain. In terms of sound quality SHM-CD is miles away from butchered UM remasters.
Toshiba-EMI 1983, CBS 1986, Virgin 1994, UM 2009, and flat transfer 2011-based CDs do not stay in sync with each other, playback speed slightly varies from track to track and from disc to disc. For example, side 1 of the LP is almost in sync for Toshiba-EMI 1983 and flat transfer 2011-based CDs, but for side 2 the playback is a notch faster for flat transfer. If one will synchronize a track from LP side 2 for those CDs at the opening lick, by the end of the track the flat transfer 2011 will be appr. 0.5 sec. ahead with respect to Toshiba-EMI 1983. However, these differences are not that critical for a casual listener.
Bottom line:
‘Tattoo You’ is another messy CD. It seems that every mastering engineer tried to improve the sound quality using own (specific and individual) approach. The results varied from bad to widely acclaimed. But in all re-incarnations, it is no audiophile experience. If you want to have the best possible representation of the original master tape unmolested by additional mastering (and a poster) head for SHM-CD prepared from flat transfer. Otherwise, be ready to invest €€€ in Toshiba-EMI ‘black triangle’ CD (w/o poster). CBS and Virgin versions are also good and have merits on their own. These are much cheaper and easy to get. However, if long version of Track 03-Slave is crucial, the sole good sounding option is 1994 Virgin CD.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-30 17:33 by ironbelly.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: May 30, 2022 23:28
Quote
ironbelly
Here is the list of CDs with catalog numbers that were prepared as flat transfer from UK original master tapes.
These are arguably the best sounding versions. Although, Some Girls, Steel Wheels and Flashpoint got some criticism.
UICY-40011 mentioned by Rockman came in the fanciest package of them all. But SHM-CD platinum can have some playback problems with older CD players due to low reflection rate of platinum layer.
Mind, that only UICY-79241 is available on cdjapan. The rest are out of print and hard to get/overpriced on the secondary market
Mind also, that SHM-SACDs are single layer discs that can be played only on SACD player (not regular one)
All other UICY editions (including Spanish version) came with an inferior 2009 Marcussen's brickwalled remaster.
Thanks for the graph. I'll use it for further purchases whenever one comes up at a decent price. I do have the Steel Wheels UICY-20202, and it's not impressive.
Re: Sticky Fingers SHM CD
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: May 31, 2022 10:49
No wonder. That one is based on 2009 Marcussen's remaster. This is the case nothing can help and SHM is pure 'cash in' on audiophiles.Quote
24FPS
Thanks for the graph. I'll use it for further purchases whenever one comes up at a decent price. I do have the Steel Wheels UICY-20202, and it's not impressive.
With Steel Wheels you can safely stick to old CBS or Virgin CD. Actually, Virgin CD in this case is = to CBS CD + appr. 1.4 dB in loudness + some minor clipping. Nothing else was done in 1998, there was no remix and no equalization changes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-31 16:37 by ironbelly.
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