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Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 4, 2021 04:48

Quote
billwebster
I'm just listening to "You Got It Made" for the very first time, and I must say that this is one of Keith's best songs he sang for the Stones. Here's hoping the finished version (if there is one) gets an official release rather sooner than later because it's great.

VL was my introduction to this band, and I wouldn't change it.

I can't find it on YouTube but from VOODOO BREW or whatever there is a track maybe 8 minutes long with the infamous "It's a tall order for two queers" line by Keith of he and Ronnie attempting to do backing vocals for You Got It Made. It's awesome.

It's fantastic insight as to why the Stones take so damn long to make an album.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: padre69 ()
Date: April 4, 2021 12:53

No rock’n’roll album should have more than ten songs on it. And that goes specially for VL, BTB and ABB. Five songs on two sides. The cd era with its 80 minute capacity spoiled many albums.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GhostTown2021 ()
Date: April 4, 2021 17:23

Quote
padre69
No rock’n’roll album should have more than ten songs on it. And that goes specially for VL, BTB and ABB. Five songs on two sides. The cd era with its 80 minute capacity spoiled many albums.
Well, I have heard that some people like Exile On Main Street. 18 songs. But hey, whatever floats their (your?) boat.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 4, 2021 17:28

Quote
GhostTown2021

Well, I have heard that some people like Exile On Main Street. 18 songs.

It's not the same problem :
in the 60's/70's making a double album (Zep, Dylan, Hendrix) was a conscious decision (you had to have enough good material) and symbolically it was the sign you were entering the club of important artists.

Padre69's right : with the CD age and its 80-minute duration every album became a double. Hence a few clunkers added to the tracklist to fill the medium.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 4, 2021 18:00

Okay, remove all songs from the album, replace them with outtakes and shorten the format to ten songs. It doesn't matter, a spade is still a spade.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GhostTown2021 ()
Date: April 4, 2021 18:37

Quote
dcba
Quote
GhostTown2021

Well, I have heard that some people like Exile On Main Street. 18 songs.

It's not the same problem :
in the 60's/70's making a double album (Zep, Dylan, Hendrix) was a conscious decision (you had to have enough good material) and symbolically it was the sign you were entering the club of important artists.

Padre69's right : with the CD age and its 80-minute duration every album became a double. Hence a few clunkers added to the tracklist to fill the medium.

I don't see Padre69 making any such claim. Rock'n roll album should be 10 songs, five on each side. AND that some albums were spoiled by the 80 minute capacity.

Besides, there are countless serious artists, who never released double albums. Releasing doubles was just a thing to do at the time, like 70+ minute CD.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: April 4, 2021 19:09

Quote: "I'm certainly not anti-groove, just anti-groove without substance, in the context of this album. They (The Stones) had a number of great grooves. But it was like, OK, what goes on top of it? Where does it go? I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones. I was looking for a sign that they can great real serious about this, still play better than anybody and write better than anybody".

- Don Was, May 1994

Quote: "It's very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for Voodoo Lounge that Don (Was) steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us away very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake... He tried to remake Exile on Main Street or something like that. Plus, the engineer (Don Smith) was also trying to do the same thing. Their mind-set about it was just too retro. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it inherently, but they went over the top; they'd gone too far... I didn't really fight it in the end. I gave up because there was no point in it. I think both Charlie and I didn't really like it, but we could see that that was the direction you could go, and it might be successful. I don't think it really was that successful, because I don't think there's any point in having these over-retro references. I think it was an opportunity missed to go in another direction, which would have been more unusual, a little more radical, although it's always going to sound like the Rolling Stones".

- Mick Jagger, 1995

So, Don was and Don smith wanted to re-create Exile......

It seems to me that if Don was and Don smith had gotten out of the way and just helped Mick Keith and Charlie do what they wanted instead of trying to 'play to the gallery' they would have got what they wanted - As per Exile, an experimental album that no one was 100% sure about when it was released........(Except maybe Mick & Keith who just put down what they liked.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-04 19:11 by EddieByword.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Single Malt ()
Date: April 4, 2021 19:38

Yes, VL would've been so much better album if there was only 1 LP. As a double LP it was too long. 9-10 songs would've been enough.

1. Love Is Strong (3.48)
2. You Got Me Rocking (3.35)
3. Sparks Will Fly (3.15)
4. Moon Is Up (3.41)
5. Out Of Tears (5.27)

1. I Go Wild (4.23)
2. Suck On The Jugular (4.26)
3. Baby Break It Down (4.07)
4. Thru and Thru (6.00)

Running time: approx. 39 minutes

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 4, 2021 20:20

Quote
EddieByword
Quote: "I'm certainly not anti-groove, just anti-groove without substance, in the context of this album. They (The Stones) had a number of great grooves. But it was like, OK, what goes on top of it? Where does it go? I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones. I was looking for a sign that they can great real serious about this, still play better than anybody and write better than anybody".

- Don Was, May 1994

Quote: "It's very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for Voodoo Lounge that Don (Was) steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us away very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake... He tried to remake Exile on Main Street or something like that. Plus, the engineer (Don Smith) was also trying to do the same thing. Their mind-set about it was just too retro. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it inherently, but they went over the top; they'd gone too far... I didn't really fight it in the end. I gave up because there was no point in it. I think both Charlie and I didn't really like it, but we could see that that was the direction you could go, and it might be successful. I don't think it really was that successful, because I don't think there's any point in having these over-retro references. I think it was an opportunity missed to go in another direction, which would have been more unusual, a little more radical, although it's always going to sound like the Rolling Stones".

- Mick Jagger, 1995

So, Don was and Don smith wanted to re-create Exile......

It seems to me that if Don was and Don smith had gotten out of the way and just helped Mick Keith and Charlie do what they wanted instead of trying to 'play to the gallery' they would have got what they wanted - As per Exile, an experimental album that no one was 100% sure about when it was released........(Except maybe Mick & Keith who just put down what they liked.

If the Stones had wanted to recreate EXILE... that can be open to any interpretation. Which includes that it could also be BEGGARS because if it was just about the songs, that would be more bluesy folk country songs, for one example, with some blues and some rock'n'rollers, just like what's on EXILE. As in, the spirit. Well that's just what they do or have done at times, just not with entire albums. As in, at what point are the Stones "not supposed" to sound like the Stones? That's garbage. Anything they do sounds like them. They proved that between THE ROLLING STONES and TSMR. That run of albums has so many different sounds, stylings blah blah blah. So they honed what they wanted to do from BEGGARS onward. Worked excellently for quite a while.

'Why bother recreating EXILE when something new can be created with what we want to do?' which they then did with BRIDGES. That must've been a driving point for Mick. HELL NO NOT AGAIN, hence Was not being the sole producer of BTB. It's rather obvious Mick and Keith drove what happened with BTB and the results are way more interesting than VL, regardless of the quality.

There's one piece that's odd though - wouldn't Mick and Keith've pulled those not liked Was songs and finished them? Maybe they really didn't like them after all. Or enough. Maybe Was is kind of right.

Just for the sake of observational clarity I've never confused VOODOO for wanting to sound or be like EXILE. With ER and TY one can hear the SOME GIRLS spirit of some of the songs from those sessions but they don't flat out sound like SG songs. No one will ever confuse Too Tough for wanting to sound like a BLACK AND BLUE song since that's the era it comes from.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: April 4, 2021 21:09

Quote
Single Malt
Yes, VL would've been so much better album if there was only 1 LP. As a double LP it was too long. 9-10 songs would've been enough.

1. Love Is Strong (3.48)
2. You Got Me Rocking (3.35)
3. Sparks Will Fly (3.15)
4. Moon Is Up (3.41)
5. Out Of Tears (5.27)

1. I Go Wild (4.23)
2. Suck On The Jugular (4.26)
3. Baby Break It Down (4.07)
4. Thru and Thru (6.00)

Running time: approx. 39 minutes


Even with some of the mediocre tracks removed, there's still too much mediocrity left to make it a truly worthwile album.

What about this choice:

1. Love Is Strong
2. You Got Me Rocking ("No Security" live arrangement)
3. Evening Gown
4. Hate It When You Leave
5. Sparks Will Fly

1. I Go Wild
2. Sweet Thing
3. Don't Tear Me Up
4. Angel In My Heart
5. Wandering Spirit

It's the quality of songwriting that makes a great Stones album. It was not meant to be because they chose to use their best tracks for solo albums. No producer can polish weak songwriting into great tunes. Even the best outtakes from the "Voodoo" box sets are nice at best, but would not change the general picture. A whole bunch of these "Voodoo"-outtakes are just plain rubbish, and it's easy to see why they received no further attention.

Yes, they missed the chance to produce a great and lasting Stones album, an album of quality material that at least I have no problem to listen to from start to finish. The songs were there, but their band - solo decisions f***ed it up entirely.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-04 21:11 by retired_dog.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Date: April 4, 2021 21:51

If that is allowed...

Side A:

1. Sweet Thing
2. Wicked As It Seems (Mick on vocals)
3. Love Is Strong
4. The Worst
5. Somebody Else Might (Mick on vocals)

Side B:

6. Wired All Night
7. Moon Is Up
8. Don't Tear Me Up
9. Evening Gown
10. Hate It When You Leave

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: April 4, 2021 22:45

Quote
DandelionPowderman
If that is allowed...

Side A:

1. Sweet Thing
2. Wicked As It Seems (Mick on vocals)
3. Love Is Strong
4. The Worst
5. Somebody Else Might (Mick on vocals)

Side B:

6. Wired All Night
7. Moon Is Up
8. Don't Tear Me Up
9. Evening Gown
10. Hate It When You Leave


Of course it's allowed... in fact everything is allowed to prove that back then, the problem was not a dried-up creative well, but a lack of focus on the band.

A great selection too, btw.!

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: April 4, 2021 23:16

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
billwebster
I'm just listening to "You Got It Made" for the very first time, and I must say that this is one of Keith's best songs he sang for the Stones. Here's hoping the finished version (if there is one) gets an official release rather sooner than later because it's great.

VL was my introduction to this band, and I wouldn't change it.

I can't find it on YouTube but from VOODOO BREW or whatever there is a track maybe 8 minutes long with the infamous "It's a tall order for two queers" line by Keith of he and Ronnie attempting to do backing vocals for You Got It Made. It's awesome.

It's fantastic insight as to why the Stones take so damn long to make an album.

Yes, it is. It is called "Studio Fun With Ron and Keith" on the boot I have.



Also, Ronnie says, "Where are we, Keith"

Keith: "At the corner of 'Walk' and 'Don't Walk'."

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: April 4, 2021 23:31

Which is worse: a Wasted Opportunity or a Missed Opportunity ?

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: April 5, 2021 00:40

...Hang on I'll ring LD ....
She'll know ... thru her own fault she copped both



ROCKMAN

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 7, 2021 02:39

Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
billwebster
I'm just listening to "You Got It Made" for the very first time, and I must say that this is one of Keith's best songs he sang for the Stones. Here's hoping the finished version (if there is one) gets an official release rather sooner than later because it's great.

VL was my introduction to this band, and I wouldn't change it.

I can't find it on YouTube but from VOODOO BREW or whatever there is a track maybe 8 minutes long with the infamous "It's a tall order for two queers" line by Keith of he and Ronnie attempting to do backing vocals for You Got It Made. It's awesome.

It's fantastic insight as to why the Stones take so damn long to make an album.

Yes, it is. It is called "Studio Fun With Ron and Keith" on the boot I have.



Also, Ronnie says, "Where are we, Keith"

Keith: "At the corner of 'Walk' and 'Don't Walk'."

I can't find my knob.

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