Hi folks,
have been away for a week....
but after reading the posts of the last days I got the feeling that we are not talking about the same band anymore.
According to lot of posts it seems as if any 18 year old hobby guitar player plays better than Keith and Ron.

Come on guys....cool down a bit
They may not be THAT brilliant like they used to be...but:
they still got it....and sometimes they even nail it.
and that`s all what counts....

To me there is nothing that can beat the feeling, watching & hearing
this 4 men performing together on stage.

by the way....they used to have crappy moments like playing the wrong key, bumping and playing somehow wrong throughout their whole career,.....
nothing sensational knew about it.
You want a perfect performance ?!....do not watch the Stones.
You want to have a geat time and seing a real Rock`n Roll show ?!
Go to the Stones.

See u on ABBtour
salar

It's as simple as that, really!

You're lucky you've only been away for a week. Some of us that are here every day have had to read this kind of bollocks that you speak of day in/day out. It does get very tedious.

Face it: at this point, we're paying $90-$450 just to be in their presence.

Yeah give Keith a break guys, he is 62. Just glad he's still alive.

John (Stjohnswood)

keefriff99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Face it: at this point, we're paying $90-$450 just
> to be in their presence.


But they still play some guitar, don't they?!

I have no trouble with the guitar work of Keith Richards, it has the high standard of the last two decades. But the guitar work of Ron Wood is terrible. I like the guitar style of Ron Wood, the connection of rhythm and solo, please hear "It's a Gas in Paris" from 1976, "Hey Negrita" e.g. is great guitar work, the solo on "Angie" is wonderful, the same goes for the solo on "YCAGWYW". But during this tour he seems to loose all his creativity and plays many wrong notes, simple soli like on "Tumbling Dice", which he played thousand times, are nothing but nonsense, the same goes for the opener "Start Me Up". Sometimes it seems as if he is searching for the right position of his fingers on the guitar. This isn't sloppy, this is no music. Hendrix used to play sloppy too, sometimes, but it was interesting and it was music.

Perhaps it has something to do that he started drinking again this year?...Or doesn`t he take touring seriously?

He played some pretty ok shows at the Licks tour people say..saw the Copenhagen show and his playing were to messy...no solo at all at Wild Horses...Frankly it seemed like he forgot it..and when he started playing he hit the wrong cords, came in off- beat..really lousy and it ruined the end of the song...gonna see them next summer but Ronnies gotta straighten up his playing for sure..

Salar wrote "ou want to have a geat time and seing a real Rock`n Roll show ?!
Go to the Stones.You want a perfect performance ?!....do not watch the Stones."

I say "Do you want a perfect performance?! ...Do watch noone!" Noone is perfect on stage, unless it's a playback act. Some nostagic guys are always idealizing the past and underrating the present. Listen to Love You Live album. The band's playing is full of mistakes, also full of weak and nerveless moments (for example Tumbilng Dice). Remember the 1978 tour (in my opinion, the most unstable Stones tour ever). "Punky spirit", but also a lot of mistakes. Remember that Keith was 75% "off" at Knewborth, in 1976. But the Stones still have the elements which are making them the most popular live act in the planet. Energy, rock feeling, team spirit and nowadays ... "rock wisdom"!

I haven't seen any concert on this tour yet (i am waiting for the european leg). I just hear the boots. In my opinion Ronnie is clearly better than he was in the european leg of Licks Tour. Keith is OK. The band rocks. I think this tour is the best since 1995. And when i see "typical naggers" (like ROPENI) writing "the show i witnessed was not a great but a good one", i can understand something...

Wild Slivovitz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> keefriff99 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Face it: at this point, we're paying $90-$450
> just
> > to be in their presence.
>
>
> But they still play some guitar, don't they?!

Well of course...but that's secondary to seeing the legendary Stones onstage. Who REALLY goes to a Stones show to see musical revelation anymore? Plenty of bar bands could outplay Keith and Ronnie at this point.

I'm not trying to be nasty or negative but I really think that's the primary appeal of going to see the Stones these days.

keefriff99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wild Slivovitz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > keefriff99 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Face it: at this point, we're paying
> $90-$450
> > just
> > > to be in their presence.
> >
> >
> > But they still play some guitar, don't
> they?!
>
> Well of course...but that's secondary to seeing
> the legendary Stones onstage. Who REALLY goes to
> a Stones show to see musical revelation anymore?
> Plenty of bar bands could outplay Keith and Ronnie
> at this point.
>
> I'm not trying to be nasty or negative but I
> really think that's the primary appeal of going to
> see the Stones these days.


Ok, maybe no one wants to get a musical revelation by the Stones.But the boys still rock big time in concerts, and the guitar work still contributes to that, isn't it?!

Once again to all those who argue:
STAY HOME and let the tickets for the die hard fans who want to go.
Calgary was priced like CAD $500 up for nosebleed seats. And this crowd was amazing. I wish I will see this in Europe also.
Really I was surprised.
Tonite we are ready to rock Seattle and friends just showed up so it will be great.

Enough with the @#$%& "stay home if you don't like it" argument. Anyone who uses that simply wants to bury their head in the sand so they don't have to face unpleasant truths about the Stones these days.

I wanted to have fun when I saw them in August...it was my 8th time and they'd never let me down before, but frankly, the show overall was competent but uninspired. I left feeling unsatisfied.

So guess what?? I probably WILL stay home next time...and that makes me feel extremely sad, but just can't see shelling the money out for a band I love that's just not feeling it anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-31 02:38 by keefriff99.

My feeling about Ronnie these days is this:

That he CAN still play guitar - cf his solo gig earlier this year and some of his stuff on ABB - but that the Stones now is just a gig for him. He can't/won't turn it down. They did 'use' him on the new album but he was brought in when the core work was over. He knows the score.

So, I think he might not be that interested in Stones as a band any more. But as a job - it's well paid - and he gets to stand up and keep his image as a Stone. I think that Mick and Keith cannot have noticed that his commitment and performance are not what they were (to put it politely) - but it's really too much trouble to bother to change things now. The machine still functions, they still sell out shows. So, Ronnie stays.

keefriff99 wrote "Enough with the @#$%& "stay home if you don't like it" argument. Anyone who uses that simply wants to bury their head in the sand so they don't have to face unpleasant truths about the Stones these days"

Do you think YOUR "truths" are THE truths? That's is the one and only problem with the guys who are always nagging here. They think that their opinions are truisms, axiomatics!
A Ronnie's solo can sound bad in the ears of one person and great in the ears of another fan. (People ofren discuss about his solo on YCAGWYW in middle 70s or on CYHMK in 2002/03). But it's a matter of taste, not a truth.
During a great concert, if Ronnie and Keith are losing two notes on one song (out of 20) you can say "Oh, what a horrible concert". But that's a personal valuation, not a truth.
Maybe you are tired of hearing JJF and Satisfaction. Maybe you believe that the Stones are "uninspired" because they perform for the 99% of the audiences who, liked or not, are "dying" for hearing atleast 6-7 "warhorses". But that's a antidemocratic demand, not a truth.

PS Try to be honest. You say now "i wanted to have fun when I saw them in August...it was my 8th time and they'd never let me down before". Really? If i remember correctly, you wrote a lot of negative posts about the band on this board before August... When the hell did you felt first time so "unsatisfied" or "disappointed"? Then, now, during Licks Tour, after Licks, when?

some guys and gals or here are obviously suffering the effects of the massive anxiety brought on by the fact the stones dont hit europe for a while.. keith AND ron have rocked every damned show

BECAUSE IM OLDKR

I don't think I'm who you're thinking of because I hardly posted here between the end of the Licks tour and the start of the ABB tour.

I've had problems with the overall band dynamic, playing to pre-programmed tempos, intrusive keyboards, Chuck instead of Keith conducting the band onstage, guitar volume, inadequate distortion, poor sound for the prices being charged, etc...

These are issues I've had with the band going back to the Licks tour (A lot of people here opened my eyes to these problems, BTW).

But even after I started noticing these things, those criticisms NEVER entered my mind at a show. I was just thrilled to be there and they were always amazing. Then I'd listen to boots and think "yeah, jeez, they screwed that up bad" or "goddamn, those keyboards irritating." But y'know, few people (including myself) notice things like that in real-time...they're too busy rocking out.

But the show I saw in August just fell flat...and with the Stones charging what they're charging, I've EARNED the right to speak my mind.

Stating a critical opinion on SOME aspect of the Stones doesn't mean that I hate them? Just the opposite...I care too much about them to keep my mouth shut.

Do you think saying "Keith and Ronnie aren't what they once were" or "time is catching up to Keith and Ronnie" are OPINIONs? They're not, and anyone who says otherwise loses credibility.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-31 04:17 by keefriff99.

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> some guys and gals or here are obviously suffering
> the effects of the massive anxiety brought on by
> the fact the stones dont hit europe for a while..
> keith AND ron have rocked every damned show
>
> BECAUSE IM OLDKR

There could well be some truth in this.

Amen to Stickydion and ..... to keefriff99.

Go see the shows, enjoy and be HAPPY!

It is expencive, they are older(so are we by the way), the warhorses are there, and so on and so on.... We know all that. If you don't like it, fair enough, just don't go. It's a free world. As for myself, I love The Stones and I just go to the shows and get the best thing I can imagine: The Greatest Rock'n Roll Band In The World; The Rolling Stones.

> During a great concert, if Ronnie and Keith are
> losing two notes on one song (out of 20) you can
> say "Oh, what a horrible concert". But that's a
> personal valuation, not a truth.

Oh, c'mon, that's not why I'm not going, has nothing to do with loosing a couple of notes, in fact that would be the only spontanous thining in the whole concert. The truth is they can be so much better and no dont even try to compare them to their 70s. They have always been exciting, not anymore. The magic is gone. We're in Vegas turf now.

And while youre thinkng about a good answer, listen to IFYCRM from the Paris bootlegs (1976). That tour used to be considered as crap and 1982-82 a comeback. They rock, the magic is there, everything is the Stones, the feel is about Stones. Love it.

"Magic is gone" ... Just your imagination, LA FORUM. Or your prejudice against them...

At last I had the chance to listen to a decent audience ricording of this tour (Philly 2), as it should be heard (loud loud loud) -

Well, what I hear, I like. A lot. Ronnie's performance included.

I don't want to discuss ticket prices or set lists now, only the performance.

I don't know what YOU hear. Of course there can be ups and downs but FOR SURE it can't be worse than any tour after 1989. Under NO point of view.

For all that I care, I know that the magic is still there.

Go on moaning now!!!


C

It is not a matter of playing well or not concerning Ron Wood. It is the difference between music and a series of notes and wrong notes particularly. There is no place for discussion and "personal evaluation", I guess. Of course the style of Ronnie is different from Mick Taylors. And that is right and ok. The connection of rhythm and lead guitar fits to the style of keith Richards much better. I've never mind that he is playing sloppy; many rock and blues guitarists do that, e. g. Jimi Hendrix. I don't like the "clean" and "polite" style of Eric Clapton e. g., particularly concerning Stones stuff. But it should be some kind of music ...