Tell Me :  Talk
Talk about your favorite band. 

Previous page Next page First page IORR home

For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.

Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Happy Jack ()
Date: July 21, 2020 02:29

I recently picked the Mono Box set up bc I found it a local music store for a good price. Now I have all of the 2002 remasters but am considering the redundancy in my collection. Is there any need to keep the 2002 remasters if I have the Mono Set? Thanks!

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 21, 2020 04:28

Well, they are in mono and I assume your others are stereo? Going to be pretty big differences with at least some of them I would wager.

jb

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: July 21, 2020 05:30

If I removed all the redundancy in my Stones collection I'd have another room in my house.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 21, 2020 06:26

I bought the Mono Box during a massive sale on Popmarket for a very inexpensive price, and it quickly became an essential part of my collection -it's almost as good as my Beatles Mono Box.
Fond memories of driving up to Santa Clara and back last summer while listening to the entire box start to finish, and as a bonus memory I got to see the Stones live at Levi's stadium.

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: July 21, 2020 07:30

Well the 2002 remasters are hybrid SACD's and I prefer stereo versions of most of the songs.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: July 21, 2020 12:02

Quote
Happy Jack
I recently picked the Mono Box set up bc I found it a local music store for a good price. Now I have all of the 2002 remasters but am considering the redundancy in my collection. Is there any need to keep the 2002 remasters if I have the Mono Set? Thanks!
First of all you should figure out if the box you got is official or counterfeit made in China. If the hubs of the CDs on the play side carry imprints like ifpi B404 (or similar) or IFPI 08N5 (or similar) - the box is counterfeit.

Aftermath, Between The Buttons, TSMR, Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed were issued in stereo in 2002. Part of 12X5 too. For mono box Aftermath, BTB and TSMR contain unique dedicated mono. Some tracks are different masters. BB and LIB are fold downs from stereo (apart of one song - Sympathy For The Devil, this one is dedicated mono mix).

Lukpac (the guy who wrote that well known FAQ about 2002 remasters) A/B for some of the tracks from 2002 and box In Mono. This is his post at Steve Hoffman's music forum from 2016
The Rolling Stones
- Route 66 - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Little By Little - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Tell Me - Different digital transfer from 2002, faded in mastering at 3:47.
12 X 5
- Around And Around - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Confessin' The Blues - Different digital transfer from 2002, probably taken from a mono dub since the intro has a noticeable tape drag on the 2002 (yet the tape drag on Around And Around was apparently unnoticed).
- Empty Heart - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Good Times, Bad Times - Same digital transfer as 2002, which was a stereo transfer. Fade not "helped" in mastering like on the 2002.
- It's All Over Now - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- 2120 - Same digital transfer as 2002, full 3:37 version (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- If You Need Me - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Susie Q - Same digital transfer as 2002.
No. 2
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks), dull/rolled off compared to 2002.
- Time Is On My Side - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- I Can't Be Satisfied - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
Now!
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002, brighter.
- Heart of Stone - Same digital transfer as 2002. Possibly 2 digital remixes from same 3-track transfer? Vocal is lower in mono than folded stereo. Either that or CSG-esque phase manipulation was used to lower the level of the vocal. Matches 2002 Singles Collection.
- What A Shame - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Down The Road Apiece - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Little Red Rooster - Different digital transfer from 2002.
Out of Our Heads [US]
- Mercy Mercy - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Good Times - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Satisfaction - Same digital transfer as 2002.
Out of Our Heads [UK]
- She Said Yeah - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Talkin' About You - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Under Assistant - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- I'm Free - Same digital transfer as 2002.
December's Children
- You Better Move On - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Look What You've Done - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- Get Off Of My Cloud - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Blue Turns To Grey - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
Aftermath [UK]
- Mother's Little Helper - Different digital transfer from 2002 (Singles Collection).
- Stupid Girl - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- Lady Jane - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Slight NR in intro (as on 2002). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- I Am Waiting - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange. Fade is 3 1/2 seconds shorter.
- Think - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange, slightly less high end. Fade is 6 seconds shorter.
Aftermath [US]
- Paint It Black - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift, at least for first half of song. Second half has some odd drift. Faded in mastering at 3:22.
- Under My Thumb - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version.
- I Am Waiting - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is full-length.
- Think - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is almost full-length (it's still a hair longer on the aforementioned needledrop).
Between The Buttons [UK]
- Yesterday's Papers - Generally very similar sounding to a well known needledrop. Oddly, the fade ends abruptly about 1.5 seconds before the needledrop.
- Back Street Girl - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. A couple of odd dropouts in the fade, but otherwise no issues. It seems that the needledrop is a fold-down of the stereo, while this is a unique mono mix. There are subtle differences in reverb in places, notably on the accordion.
- Cool, Calm & Collected - Generally very similar sounding to the aforementioned needledrop, possibly with a bit more clarity. Possibly from a copy tape? At the end of the fade, there's an abrupt cut, followed by a half second of tape hiss, which then seems to edit to leader. It generally sounds pretty good regardless.
- All Sold Out - A bit less bright than the aforementioned needledrop.
- Please Go Home - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. HOWEVER, these aren't the same mix. The needledrop matches the stereo mix. On this mono mix, the repeat echo effects are noticeably different. The tone generator (?) throughout the song is also completely different, especially at the end, which seems to indicate it was added live during the mono and stereo mixes. The needledrop is definitely a fold for this song, and it was assumed that no dedicated mono mix existed, so this is something of a surprise. The ABKCO tape listing does reference an "unissued rough mix?" for this and Back Street Girl; perhaps these come from that tape.
- Who's Been Sleeping Here? - Slightly rolled off in comparison to the needledrop, similar to All Sold Out. Interestingly, the tape ends a half second *earlier* on the needledrop.
Flowers
- Ruby Tuesday - Matches the mono mix on the 1989 Singles Collection, and is a significantly better transfer, with more high end. Based on the end of the fade, it looks as if the tape may be a copy, but the sound is definitely superior to whatever was used or done in 1989.
- Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby - Same transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. 2002 fades the fade ever so slightly, not the case here.
- Let's Spend The Night Together - Different transfer from 2002, a bit bassier and rolled off in comparison. End of fade suggests 2002 might be from a copy tape.
- Lady Jane - Matches Aftermath, other than slight level/EQ difference. The tails of the fades are slightly different on all 3, however.
Their Satanic Majesties Request
- In Another Land - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Quite similar to a well known needledrop.
- She's A Rainbow - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Subjectively has a bit more clarity than aforementioned needledrop, and doesn't have a tape problem just before the whistle in the intro that's present on the needledrop.
- The Lantern - Mono mix (3 bells in intro). Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection definitely has some in intro, and possibly throughout song). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop. Needledrop sounds and looks a bit rolled off in comparison.
- 2000 Light Years From Home - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection seems to have some in intro). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop.

Beggars Banquet
- Sympathy For The Devil - Dedicated mono mix, unreleased digitally until now. I don't have a needledrop to compare to, but it sounds pretty good to me. No obvious issues.
- No Expectations - Fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer. Fade is slightly longer.
- Jigsaw Puzzle - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Stray Cat Blues - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Salt of the Earth - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
Let It Bleed
- Gimme Shelter - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync. No NR in intro, or at least less than the 2002.
- Love In Vain - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Midnight Rambler - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
Stray Cats
- I've Been Loving You Too Long - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) fold-down; (2002 was stereo).
- Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man - Original mix (not 1989 remix), uncensored/unedited, fade matches the original mix. However, it is over 2% slower than other versions (edited 2002/2016, unedited/remixed 1989, random YouTube needledrop of the 45, etc).
- 19th Nervous Breakdown - Different from 2002. No remixed/edited on intro. No static around 0:04 common to many (but not all) older releases. Fade stays louder longer, then fades out more quickly. Light static in first few seconds of intro not present elsewhere. Intermittent hiss present throughout entire song between vocal lines, seemingly due to extreme compression on the vocal track. Audible and noticeable in spectral view. Other differences point to this being a different mix than the original mono mix.
- Con Le Mie Lacrime - Seems a bit muted/rolled off, but this may just be the recording. No obvious issues are noticeable.
- Street Fighting Man - Different from the version on the 2002 Singles Collection. Less midrange and more high end. It seems that the 2002 has some slight NR in places while this doesn't. My guess is this is either a new needledrop of the 45, or a less processed version of the needledrop used in 2002. There's no question they are *different* sounding, but I have a feeling some people may prefer one and some the other.
- Honky Tonk Women - Different from the 2002, not from that (stereo) transfer. It seems that the mono mix is dedicated, and not a fold-down. Some of the lead guitar licks are distorted (and aren't in stereo), and in some places the relative levels are a bit different.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Different from the 2002, not from that transfer. The 2002 seems to have NR in many places, this doesn't.

Actually, there are only 38 unique mono masters out of 186 tracks presented in the box. The rest are about the same.

Regarding 2002 remasters. If you have SACD-hybrid discs in digipaks - keep them all. If yours are later single layer re-issues in jewel cases - keep only 12x5, Aftermath, BTB, TSMR, BB, LIB, live albums and compilations.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: SKILLS ()
Date: July 21, 2020 15:13

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
Happy Jack
I recently picked the Mono Box set up bc I found it a local music store for a good price. Now I have all of the 2002 remasters but am considering the redundancy in my collection. Is there any need to keep the 2002 remasters if I have the Mono Set? Thanks!
First of all you should figure out if the box you got is official or counterfeit made in China. If the hubs of the CDs on the play side carry imprints like ifpi B404 (or similar) or IFPI 08N5 (or similar) - the box is counterfeit.

Aftermath, Between The Buttons, TSMR, Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed were issued in stereo in 2002. Part of 12X5 too. For mono box Aftermath, BTB and TSMR contain unique dedicated mono. Some tracks are different masters. BB and LIB are fold downs from stereo (apart of one song - Sympathy For The Devil, this one is dedicated mono mix).

Lukpac (the guy who wrote that well known FAQ about 2002 remasters) A/B for some of the tracks from 2002 and box In Mono. This is his post at Steve Hoffman's music forum from 2016
The Rolling Stones
- Route 66 - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Little By Little - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Tell Me - Different digital transfer from 2002, faded in mastering at 3:47.
12 X 5
- Around And Around - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Confessin' The Blues - Different digital transfer from 2002, probably taken from a mono dub since the intro has a noticeable tape drag on the 2002 (yet the tape drag on Around And Around was apparently unnoticed).
- Empty Heart - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Good Times, Bad Times - Same digital transfer as 2002, which was a stereo transfer. Fade not "helped" in mastering like on the 2002.
- It's All Over Now - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- 2120 - Same digital transfer as 2002, full 3:37 version (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- If You Need Me - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Susie Q - Same digital transfer as 2002.
No. 2
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks), dull/rolled off compared to 2002.
- Time Is On My Side - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- I Can't Be Satisfied - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
Now!
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002, brighter.
- Heart of Stone - Same digital transfer as 2002. Possibly 2 digital remixes from same 3-track transfer? Vocal is lower in mono than folded stereo. Either that or CSG-esque phase manipulation was used to lower the level of the vocal. Matches 2002 Singles Collection.
- What A Shame - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Down The Road Apiece - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Little Red Rooster - Different digital transfer from 2002.
Out of Our Heads [US]
- Mercy Mercy - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Good Times - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Satisfaction - Same digital transfer as 2002.
Out of Our Heads [UK]
- She Said Yeah - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Talkin' About You - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Under Assistant - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- I'm Free - Same digital transfer as 2002.
December's Children
- You Better Move On - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Look What You've Done - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- Get Off Of My Cloud - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Blue Turns To Grey - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
Aftermath [UK]
- Mother's Little Helper - Different digital transfer from 2002 (Singles Collection).
- Stupid Girl - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- Lady Jane - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Slight NR in intro (as on 2002). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- I Am Waiting - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange. Fade is 3 1/2 seconds shorter.
- Think - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange, slightly less high end. Fade is 6 seconds shorter.
Aftermath [US]
- Paint It Black - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift, at least for first half of song. Second half has some odd drift. Faded in mastering at 3:22.
- Under My Thumb - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version.
- I Am Waiting - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is full-length.
- Think - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is almost full-length (it's still a hair longer on the aforementioned needledrop).
Between The Buttons [UK]
- Yesterday's Papers - Generally very similar sounding to a well known needledrop. Oddly, the fade ends abruptly about 1.5 seconds before the needledrop.
- Back Street Girl - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. A couple of odd dropouts in the fade, but otherwise no issues. It seems that the needledrop is a fold-down of the stereo, while this is a unique mono mix. There are subtle differences in reverb in places, notably on the accordion.
- Cool, Calm & Collected - Generally very similar sounding to the aforementioned needledrop, possibly with a bit more clarity. Possibly from a copy tape? At the end of the fade, there's an abrupt cut, followed by a half second of tape hiss, which then seems to edit to leader. It generally sounds pretty good regardless.
- All Sold Out - A bit less bright than the aforementioned needledrop.
- Please Go Home - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. HOWEVER, these aren't the same mix. The needledrop matches the stereo mix. On this mono mix, the repeat echo effects are noticeably different. The tone generator (?) throughout the song is also completely different, especially at the end, which seems to indicate it was added live during the mono and stereo mixes. The needledrop is definitely a fold for this song, and it was assumed that no dedicated mono mix existed, so this is something of a surprise. The ABKCO tape listing does reference an "unissued rough mix?" for this and Back Street Girl; perhaps these come from that tape.
- Who's Been Sleeping Here? - Slightly rolled off in comparison to the needledrop, similar to All Sold Out. Interestingly, the tape ends a half second *earlier* on the needledrop.
Flowers
- Ruby Tuesday - Matches the mono mix on the 1989 Singles Collection, and is a significantly better transfer, with more high end. Based on the end of the fade, it looks as if the tape may be a copy, but the sound is definitely superior to whatever was used or done in 1989.
- Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby - Same transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. 2002 fades the fade ever so slightly, not the case here.
- Let's Spend The Night Together - Different transfer from 2002, a bit bassier and rolled off in comparison. End of fade suggests 2002 might be from a copy tape.
- Lady Jane - Matches Aftermath, other than slight level/EQ difference. The tails of the fades are slightly different on all 3, however.
Their Satanic Majesties Request
- In Another Land - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Quite similar to a well known needledrop.
- She's A Rainbow - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Subjectively has a bit more clarity than aforementioned needledrop, and doesn't have a tape problem just before the whistle in the intro that's present on the needledrop.
- The Lantern - Mono mix (3 bells in intro). Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection definitely has some in intro, and possibly throughout song). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop. Needledrop sounds and looks a bit rolled off in comparison.
- 2000 Light Years From Home - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection seems to have some in intro). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop.

Beggars Banquet
- Sympathy For The Devil - Dedicated mono mix, unreleased digitally until now. I don't have a needledrop to compare to, but it sounds pretty good to me. No obvious issues.
- No Expectations - Fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer. Fade is slightly longer.
- Jigsaw Puzzle - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Stray Cat Blues - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Salt of the Earth - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
Let It Bleed
- Gimme Shelter - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync. No NR in intro, or at least less than the 2002.
- Love In Vain - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Midnight Rambler - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
Stray Cats
- I've Been Loving You Too Long - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) fold-down; (2002 was stereo).
- Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man - Original mix (not 1989 remix), uncensored/unedited, fade matches the original mix. However, it is over 2% slower than other versions (edited 2002/2016, unedited/remixed 1989, random YouTube needledrop of the 45, etc).
- 19th Nervous Breakdown - Different from 2002. No remixed/edited on intro. No static around 0:04 common to many (but not all) older releases. Fade stays louder longer, then fades out more quickly. Light static in first few seconds of intro not present elsewhere. Intermittent hiss present throughout entire song between vocal lines, seemingly due to extreme compression on the vocal track. Audible and noticeable in spectral view. Other differences point to this being a different mix than the original mono mix.
- Con Le Mie Lacrime - Seems a bit muted/rolled off, but this may just be the recording. No obvious issues are noticeable.
- Street Fighting Man - Different from the version on the 2002 Singles Collection. Less midrange and more high end. It seems that the 2002 has some slight NR in places while this doesn't. My guess is this is either a new needledrop of the 45, or a less processed version of the needledrop used in 2002. There's no question they are *different* sounding, but I have a feeling some people may prefer one and some the other.
- Honky Tonk Women - Different from the 2002, not from that (stereo) transfer. It seems that the mono mix is dedicated, and not a fold-down. Some of the lead guitar licks are distorted (and aren't in stereo), and in some places the relative levels are a bit different.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Different from the 2002, not from that transfer. The 2002 seems to have NR in many places, this doesn't.

Actually, there are only 38 unique mono masters out of 186 tracks presented in the box. The rest are about the same.

Regarding 2002 remasters. If you have SACD-hybrid discs in digipaks - keep them all. If yours are later single layer re-issues in jewel cases - keep only 12x5, Aftermath, BTB, TSMR, BB, LIB, live albums and compilations.

Woah that's wonderfully detailed, i'll say this thank goodness Dad bought both as available and original issue LP's, I have his copies of Mono and Stereo "Out of Our Heads"

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Happy Jack ()
Date: July 21, 2020 16:06

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
Happy Jack
I recently picked the Mono Box set up bc I found it a local music store for a good price. Now I have all of the 2002 remasters but am considering the redundancy in my collection. Is there any need to keep the 2002 remasters if I have the Mono Set? Thanks!
First of all you should figure out if the box you got is official or counterfeit made in China. If the hubs of the CDs on the play side carry imprints like ifpi B404 (or similar) or IFPI 08N5 (or similar) - the box is counterfeit.

Aftermath, Between The Buttons, TSMR, Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed were issued in stereo in 2002. Part of 12X5 too. For mono box Aftermath, BTB and TSMR contain unique dedicated mono. Some tracks are different masters. BB and LIB are fold downs from stereo (apart of one song - Sympathy For The Devil, this one is dedicated mono mix).

Lukpac (the guy who wrote that well known FAQ about 2002 remasters) A/B for some of the tracks from 2002 and box In Mono. This is his post at Steve Hoffman's music forum from 2016
The Rolling Stones
- Route 66 - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Little By Little - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Tell Me - Different digital transfer from 2002, faded in mastering at 3:47.
12 X 5
- Around And Around - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Confessin' The Blues - Different digital transfer from 2002, probably taken from a mono dub since the intro has a noticeable tape drag on the 2002 (yet the tape drag on Around And Around was apparently unnoticed).
- Empty Heart - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Good Times, Bad Times - Same digital transfer as 2002, which was a stereo transfer. Fade not "helped" in mastering like on the 2002.
- It's All Over Now - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- 2120 - Same digital transfer as 2002, full 3:37 version (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- If You Need Me - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Susie Q - Same digital transfer as 2002.
No. 2
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks), dull/rolled off compared to 2002.
- Time Is On My Side - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- I Can't Be Satisfied - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
Now!
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002, brighter.
- Heart of Stone - Same digital transfer as 2002. Possibly 2 digital remixes from same 3-track transfer? Vocal is lower in mono than folded stereo. Either that or CSG-esque phase manipulation was used to lower the level of the vocal. Matches 2002 Singles Collection.
- What A Shame - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Down The Road Apiece - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Little Red Rooster - Different digital transfer from 2002.
Out of Our Heads [US]
- Mercy Mercy - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Good Times - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Satisfaction - Same digital transfer as 2002.
Out of Our Heads [UK]
- She Said Yeah - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Talkin' About You - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Under Assistant - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- I'm Free - Same digital transfer as 2002.
December's Children
- You Better Move On - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Look What You've Done - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- Get Off Of My Cloud - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Blue Turns To Grey - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
Aftermath [UK]
- Mother's Little Helper - Different digital transfer from 2002 (Singles Collection).
- Stupid Girl - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- Lady Jane - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Slight NR in intro (as on 2002). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- I Am Waiting - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange. Fade is 3 1/2 seconds shorter.
- Think - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange, slightly less high end. Fade is 6 seconds shorter.
Aftermath [US]
- Paint It Black - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift, at least for first half of song. Second half has some odd drift. Faded in mastering at 3:22.
- Under My Thumb - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version.
- I Am Waiting - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is full-length.
- Think - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is almost full-length (it's still a hair longer on the aforementioned needledrop).
Between The Buttons [UK]
- Yesterday's Papers - Generally very similar sounding to a well known needledrop. Oddly, the fade ends abruptly about 1.5 seconds before the needledrop.
- Back Street Girl - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. A couple of odd dropouts in the fade, but otherwise no issues. It seems that the needledrop is a fold-down of the stereo, while this is a unique mono mix. There are subtle differences in reverb in places, notably on the accordion.
- Cool, Calm & Collected - Generally very similar sounding to the aforementioned needledrop, possibly with a bit more clarity. Possibly from a copy tape? At the end of the fade, there's an abrupt cut, followed by a half second of tape hiss, which then seems to edit to leader. It generally sounds pretty good regardless.
- All Sold Out - A bit less bright than the aforementioned needledrop.
- Please Go Home - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. HOWEVER, these aren't the same mix. The needledrop matches the stereo mix. On this mono mix, the repeat echo effects are noticeably different. The tone generator (?) throughout the song is also completely different, especially at the end, which seems to indicate it was added live during the mono and stereo mixes. The needledrop is definitely a fold for this song, and it was assumed that no dedicated mono mix existed, so this is something of a surprise. The ABKCO tape listing does reference an "unissued rough mix?" for this and Back Street Girl; perhaps these come from that tape.
- Who's Been Sleeping Here? - Slightly rolled off in comparison to the needledrop, similar to All Sold Out. Interestingly, the tape ends a half second *earlier* on the needledrop.
Flowers
- Ruby Tuesday - Matches the mono mix on the 1989 Singles Collection, and is a significantly better transfer, with more high end. Based on the end of the fade, it looks as if the tape may be a copy, but the sound is definitely superior to whatever was used or done in 1989.
- Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby - Same transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. 2002 fades the fade ever so slightly, not the case here.
- Let's Spend The Night Together - Different transfer from 2002, a bit bassier and rolled off in comparison. End of fade suggests 2002 might be from a copy tape.
- Lady Jane - Matches Aftermath, other than slight level/EQ difference. The tails of the fades are slightly different on all 3, however.
Their Satanic Majesties Request
- In Another Land - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Quite similar to a well known needledrop.
- She's A Rainbow - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Subjectively has a bit more clarity than aforementioned needledrop, and doesn't have a tape problem just before the whistle in the intro that's present on the needledrop.
- The Lantern - Mono mix (3 bells in intro). Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection definitely has some in intro, and possibly throughout song). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop. Needledrop sounds and looks a bit rolled off in comparison.
- 2000 Light Years From Home - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection seems to have some in intro). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop.

Beggars Banquet
- Sympathy For The Devil - Dedicated mono mix, unreleased digitally until now. I don't have a needledrop to compare to, but it sounds pretty good to me. No obvious issues.
- No Expectations - Fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer. Fade is slightly longer.
- Jigsaw Puzzle - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Stray Cat Blues - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Salt of the Earth - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
Let It Bleed
- Gimme Shelter - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync. No NR in intro, or at least less than the 2002.
- Love In Vain - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Midnight Rambler - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
Stray Cats
- I've Been Loving You Too Long - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) fold-down; (2002 was stereo).
- Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man - Original mix (not 1989 remix), uncensored/unedited, fade matches the original mix. However, it is over 2% slower than other versions (edited 2002/2016, unedited/remixed 1989, random YouTube needledrop of the 45, etc).
- 19th Nervous Breakdown - Different from 2002. No remixed/edited on intro. No static around 0:04 common to many (but not all) older releases. Fade stays louder longer, then fades out more quickly. Light static in first few seconds of intro not present elsewhere. Intermittent hiss present throughout entire song between vocal lines, seemingly due to extreme compression on the vocal track. Audible and noticeable in spectral view. Other differences point to this being a different mix than the original mono mix.
- Con Le Mie Lacrime - Seems a bit muted/rolled off, but this may just be the recording. No obvious issues are noticeable.
- Street Fighting Man - Different from the version on the 2002 Singles Collection. Less midrange and more high end. It seems that the 2002 has some slight NR in places while this doesn't. My guess is this is either a new needledrop of the 45, or a less processed version of the needledrop used in 2002. There's no question they are *different* sounding, but I have a feeling some people may prefer one and some the other.
- Honky Tonk Women - Different from the 2002, not from that (stereo) transfer. It seems that the mono mix is dedicated, and not a fold-down. Some of the lead guitar licks are distorted (and aren't in stereo), and in some places the relative levels are a bit different.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Different from the 2002, not from that transfer. The 2002 seems to have NR in many places, this doesn't.

Actually, there are only 38 unique mono masters out of 186 tracks presented in the box. The rest are about the same.

Regarding 2002 remasters. If you have SACD-hybrid discs in digipaks - keep them all. If yours are later single layer re-issues in jewel cases - keep only 12x5, Aftermath, BTB, TSMR, BB, LIB, live albums and compilations.
Thank you for the info: first thing I did after I bought them was to check the imprint, they’re legit.
I do have the 2002 remasters in the digipacks, so I will hang on to both.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 21, 2020 16:32

Quote
Happy Jack
I recently picked the Mono Box set up bc I found it a local music store for a good price. Now I have all of the 2002 remasters but am considering the redundancy in my collection. Is there any need to keep the 2002 remasters if I have the Mono Set? Thanks!

I saw your response to the detailed one.

No matter what keep the 2002 reissues. For one, it may very well be the only/last time they sound that good. Ludwig is king. But seeing how ABKCO has been it probably won't be until 2050 that they do some kind of remaster. Although at that point it won't make any sense and people like me will be too old to give a damn anyway and the Stones will have been long gone by 30 years or so but whatever.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Ragnbert ()
Date: July 21, 2020 17:08

Was there ever a stereo mix of Good times, bad times? Never heard that before

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 21, 2020 19:25

I only got BEGGARS, BLEED, GYYYO (I think - I did get the deluxe), HOT ROCKS and METAMORPHOSIS from the 2002 remasters and they sound fantastic. At the time I wasn't thrilled about anything older than 1968.

I may get some of the albums, the UK versions of OUT OF OUR HEADS, AFTERMATH and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS are all I can really think of since I already have the 1986 US editions. I can't think of any reason to get anything else, although the UK BIT HITS and TTPD reissues might be fun to have (even though they are completely unnecessary - some of the songs on TTPD make zero sense, like Sittin' On A Fence and You Better Move On). I don't listen to anything that much. There's nothing older than BTButtons on Spotify anyway and I don't even notice not listening to the old stuff so...

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: timbernardis ()
Date: July 22, 2020 04:17

I may have asked this before, but how do the 2002 SACDs compare to the Japanese SHM releases? Are either of them brickwalled? Is there anywhere else where SHMs are made other than Japan?

Seems the Japanese SHMs are pretty expensive, moreso than the SACDs which are mostly available used, but you can find a number of new/sealed ones on eBay.

And, does anyone have a complete list of the 2002 SACDs, British and American, the digipacks versus the jewel case editions, whatever else?

I've been slowly collecting them, mostly used, from truly old style record shops like Amoeba (Berkeley, San Francisco, LA) and Rasputin Records (Berkeley) as well as on eBay. I aim to get all, and hopefully all in digipacks. Most of those that I have collected thus far are digipacks I think (those are the ones that you can open and have fotos and such inside, correct me if I am wrong).


plexi

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 22, 2020 04:28

I used to find all kinds of great Stones promos in Amoeba Berzerkley and Rasputins. Before that, Rather Ripped and Leopolds and even the Tower in Berkeley. I traded a bunch away but still have a few. Never knew what you would find in the racks in there, usually cheap.

jb

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: timbernardis ()
Date: July 22, 2020 05:15

Rather Ripped, whatever happened to them? I have always just LOVED the name. Used to frequent the place when I was a student at Cal.


plexi

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 22, 2020 06:14

RR closed up one day and was replaced I think by a hair salon.

They had a massive warehouse sale one weekend in west oakland. Incredible stuff there but a big overload. I remember going back two or three times.

jb

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: July 22, 2020 10:20

Quote
timbernardis

And, does anyone have a complete list of the 2002 SACDs, British and American, the digipacks versus the jewel case editions, whatever else?

That should be all SACDs from 2002:


[iorr.org]



[www.Discogs.com]


22 SACDs (+ Promo-Sampler):

England's Newest Hitmakers
12x5
The Rolling Stones Now
Out Of Our Heads
Out of Our Heads - UK Version
December's Children
Big Hits (High Tide & Green Grass)
Aftermath
Aftermath - UK Version
Got Live If You Want It!
Between The Buttons
Between The Buttons - UK Version
Flowers
Their Satanic Majesties Request
Beggars Banquet
Through The Past, Darkly (Big Hits Vol.2)
Let It Bleed
Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Hot Rocks
More Hot Rocks
The Rolling Stones Singles Collection - The London Years
Metamorphosis - UK Version


[www.QuadraphonicQuad.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-22 11:10 by Irix.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: July 22, 2020 12:10

Quote
timbernardis

how do the 2002 SACDs compare to the Japanese SHM releases? Are either of them brickwalled? Is there anywhere else where SHMs are made other than Japan?

The 2002 ABKCO remastered series was done by Bob Ludwig (Gateway Mastering). He also remastered the 1994 Virgin re-issues as well as the 2016-19 RS-ABKCO-releases. Brickwalled - never heard of (in multiple sense). Also never heard of that SHM-CDs/SACDs and UHQ-CDs were made outside of Japan.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: July 22, 2020 12:14

Quote
Ragnbert
Was there ever a stereo mix of Good times, bad times? Never heard that before
Nice catch. That is typo. Probably, Luke just copy-pasted from previous line or something. Good times, bad times is mono everywhere on CD.

Quote
timbernardis
I may have asked this before, but how do the 2002 SACDs compare to the Japanese SHM releases? Are either of them brickwalled? Is there anywhere else where SHMs are made other than Japan?

SACD is Super Audio CD, different, high definition, coding of audio signal. SHM (Super High Material) is material, that is used to make CD. There is a need to separate flies from cockroaches winking smiley

2002 SACD-hybrid discs in digipaks came with 2 layers - regular CD 'redbook' and high definition SACD layer. In the most cases they contain in both layers the same material in terms of music/mastering.

In Japan there were single layer SACD-SHM and CD-SHM re-issues that contain the same 2002 remaster. But they were pressed using SHM material. Digitally they are identical to either SACD or redbook layer of 2002 SACD-hybrid discs.

All editions are not brickwalled but suffer some compression, noise reduction and (in places) narrowing of stereo. For details check
[www.lukpac.org]
Unfortunately, that text is outdated and not error free. This was acknowledged by one of the authors at Steve Hoffman's music forum. There were a couple of unconfirmed/incorrect remarks about old Japanese and West German London CDs, a few bugs here and there, etc.

SHM is Japanese toy.

Quote
timbernardis

And, does anyone have a complete list of the 2002 SACDs, British and American, the digipacks versus the jewel case editions, whatever else?
Well, the situation with SACD-hybrid 2002 discs is a bit messy. For North America they used 9xxxx catalog number. For the ROW (but Japan) 882 xxx-2. For Japan UIGY-7xxx.

Now the funny things. Those discs were pressed at least at three different plants.
For North America
- the initial run was pressed by Sonopress in Germany (Made in Germany on the label)
- by Sony in Japan (Made in Japan on the label).
The re-issues
- by Sony in the USA (Made in US on the label)
Digipaks printed in the USA with barcode 0 18771 xxxxx
German and Japanese CDs usually came with Certificate of Authenticity, those made by US - w/o.
Also, discs can be distinguished by the central part. Matrix style and hubs are different for different plants.
Known mastering issue - the very first run of Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out that was pressed in Germany by Sonopress (Matrix - [SONOPRESS 50411627/9005-2 01]) contained Stray Cat Blues with shortened intro. All other pressings came with corrected mastering.

For Europe and the ROW discs were pressed
- by Sonopress in Germany (Made in EU on the label)
- by Sony in Japan (Made in Japan on the label).
Digipaks printed in EU with barcode 0 42288 2xxxxx
Actually, it is hard to tell which pressing was earlier and what CD will be in digipak. The fact is that both Sonopress and Sony discs could be found with COA, while later re-issues by Sonopress w/o COA.
Known mastering variation - Hot Rocks [882 305-2] with matrix 50488979/UNIVERSAL 882312-2 D 01 IFPI LB46 contains stereo version of Mothers Little Helper in SACD layer, while mono version for redbook. Apparently, this mistake is absent for Japanese and US made discs (although I was not able to get 100% clear confirmation).

In Japan they utilized the very same digipaks as for Europe and the ROW but add wide OBI that covers the back side of the digipak with info for Japanese market (barcode 4 988005 xxxxxx) + b/w bi-lingual booklet that contains small essay by Mike Koshitany (in Japanese) and lyrics in English and Japanese . Best part of the CDs for Japanese market were pressed in Japan by Sony. So technically, Japanese set UIGY-7001 - UIGY-7026 is nothing special but Japanese extras.

That Remastered 2002 promo that is listed in the table as a reddbook only is relatively rare edition that was sent to the radio stations in Europe. It came with the same digipak as SACD-hybrid and with the very same label print but contains only redbook layer. Unlike the well known SACD-hybrid promo this redbook is a kind of hard to find one.

Those single layer redbook CDs in jewel cases... It is too boring to list catalog numbers. The same with endless Japanese paper sleeve limited and special re-issues winking smiley.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-22 19:13 by ironbelly.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: July 22, 2020 12:15

Rolling Stones in Mono Box, Review - [TheAudiophileMan.com] .

Available as Download in DSD (same format as used on SACD) - [Store.AcousticSounds.com] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-22 12:30 by Irix.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: July 22, 2020 13:34

Quote
Irix
Rolling Stones in Mono Box, Review - [TheAudiophileMan.com] .
That is a great review with a lot of technical details.
Here is from Bob Ludwig about preparation of 2002 re-issues
______
From Pro Audio Review:

Facility: Gateway Mastering
Mastering Engineer: Bob Ludwig
Project: Remastering 22 Rolling Stones Albums
Record Label: ABKCO
Tape Transfer: ATR Ampex 350 1/4" with Dave Hill Aria Electronics
Phono Reference: Well-Tempered Labs Turntable, Grado Cartridge,Manley Steelhead Preamp
Dynamics: Millennia Media Origin STT-1, Manley Vari-MU, NTP 179-120
Equalization: Manley Massive Passive, GML 9500 Mastering EQ, Neumann OE Duo
Noise Processing: Cube-Tec Audio Cube Workstation, CEDAR DH-2 dehisser, Weiss Engineering DS1 Dynamics Processor
Converters: EMM Labs Analog to DSD Converter, dCS 974 Digital to Digital Converter (DSD - PCM - DSD)
DSD Workstation: Sony Sonoma

PAR: What was your general process in mastering the Stones project?

BL: I would put up a song and EQ it the way I thought it should be.Then I checked it against the original London and Decca as originally intended and approved. I also checked the singles if the original was mono. Next, the 1986 CD would be checked, as this was the source for 90% of the people who knew these songs. Often we had the originals beat right away, but sometimes there was something magical about the vinyl pressing that a lot of effort to duplicate, and then better.

PAR: How did you approach the use of dynamic processing?

BL: Even 35 years ago records were compressed to make the music ROCK! For some tracks I used my vintage Neumann Disk Mastering Console and Manley, Millennia Media or NTP analog compressors to get the "correct" sound. Compressing them further for mere level sake alone was not done. Thus, they are compressed as needed, but not squished. I wanted these reissues to have as much musical longevity as possible, and high compression tires the ears.

PAR: Did you use much noise reduction?

BL: Very little. When there were spots that required its use, if it was possible in the analog world, I would do it there. If not, we went to the high resolution PCM world. If neither sounded that great, we just let the noise be. The only PCM in the whole series are those parts that were really necessary. Each corrected part was meticulously excerpted and edited back into the DSD master. One song had some significant sibilance problems, and I think 23 individual de-essed attacks of a word were edited back in by hand. A true pain in the neck, especially on the Sonoma DSD Workstation, but it kept the ultimate quality we were striving for.

PAR: The quality of the SACD layer is stunning. The CD layer also sounds much better than any previous releases I've heard.

BL: The downsampling from SACD to PCM used the latest Sony SBMD process, so the CD sound is a breakthrough as well. Being that everyone who buys a remastered Stones disc will have automatically have purchased a SACD disc, I hope that they will seek out a friend who owns a SACD player, hear the disc on that and get even more analog-like warmth and clarity than the CD layer affords.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: DEmerson ()
Date: August 3, 2020 18:07

The play side of my Mono box CDs show DIDX-1081497 (or other number).
Real - or counterfeit you think?

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 3, 2020 18:19

Quote
DEmerson
The play side of my Mono box CDs show DIDX-1081497 (or other number).
Real - or counterfeit you think?
Depends on the font and ifpi Mould Sid code.
Here are examples.

Perfectly legal US edition


Matrix: DIDX-1081497 1 (+barcode)
Stampler: A01 (typical SONY style) (at the image at 9 o'clock)
SID Mastering Code: IFPI L329
SID Mould Code: IFPI 50BG (barely seen on clear plastic ring, see separate image)

Chinese replica (this one is for The Rolling Stones but not for The Rolling Stones No.2. However, the font used for matrix and and other details would be the same)

Pay attention to
- the font that is used for DIDX
- absence of stampler code
- different barcode style
- funny ifpi B404 at 5 o'clock

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: DEmerson ()
Date: August 3, 2020 18:42

Thanks! I ‘think’ mine may be counterfeit.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 3, 2020 19:15

Quote
DEmerson
Thanks! I ‘think’ mine may be counterfeit.
If you got it from stripped down box or purchase the box from ebay or Knight Shop (or similar half price internet retailer) the answer is - yes. There were tons of counterfeit boxes on internet priced between 30 and 50 Euros some time ago. Knight Shop even made very aggressive advertising campaign on Facebook.
The positive thing - this time guys from China made 1-to-1 digital clones, digital content and mastering is the same as for original boxes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-03 19:15 by ironbelly.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: DEmerson ()
Date: August 3, 2020 20:12

thanks again Ironbelly. I did finally see (w. a magnifying glass) a tiny ifpi B404. And almost looks like a Chinese symbol next to it. So yeah - looks like mine is counterfeit. But - from what you just wrote - anyone who has the real thing and a 'fake' able to tell the difference sound wise?

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: August 3, 2020 21:43

Quote
DEmerson
thanks again Ironbelly. I did finally see (w. a magnifying glass) a tiny ifpi B404. And almost looks like a Chinese symbol next to it. So yeah - looks like mine is counterfeit. But - from what you just wrote - anyone who has the real thing and a 'fake' able to tell the difference sound wise?

Barry Diament (the guy who mastered Led Zeppelin in the mid 80s) once said that CDs made from the same CD master tape, but pressed in different factories, sound different. You can not discount that. The reasons are in differences in technological process (shape of the pits, transparency and uniformity of polycarbonate, reflective properties of the metal layer etc.) and how your player treat and correct read errors and extrapolate digital signal to analogue.

However, I tested both legit and counterfeit discs from In Mono box using audio software and I can assure you that they are bit by bit digital clones. I.e. check sums of the files ripped in secure mode using computer were the same for legit and fake.

Thus, if you have top equipment and golden hearing there is a chance you will hear differences between two pressings. But I am sure those differences will be subtle if any at all.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: August 3, 2020 22:54

Quote
Happy Jack
Quote
ironbelly
Quote
Happy Jack
I recently picked the Mono Box set up bc I found it a local music store for a good price. Now I have all of the 2002 remasters but am considering the redundancy in my collection. Is there any need to keep the 2002 remasters if I have the Mono Set? Thanks!
First of all you should figure out if the box you got is official or counterfeit made in China. If the hubs of the CDs on the play side carry imprints like ifpi B404 (or similar) or IFPI 08N5 (or similar) - the box is counterfeit.

Aftermath, Between The Buttons, TSMR, Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed were issued in stereo in 2002. Part of 12X5 too. For mono box Aftermath, BTB and TSMR contain unique dedicated mono. Some tracks are different masters. BB and LIB are fold downs from stereo (apart of one song - Sympathy For The Devil, this one is dedicated mono mix).

Lukpac (the guy who wrote that well known FAQ about 2002 remasters) A/B for some of the tracks from 2002 and box In Mono. This is his post at Steve Hoffman's music forum from 2016
The Rolling Stones
- Route 66 - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Little By Little - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Tell Me - Different digital transfer from 2002, faded in mastering at 3:47.
12 X 5
- Around And Around - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Confessin' The Blues - Different digital transfer from 2002, probably taken from a mono dub since the intro has a noticeable tape drag on the 2002 (yet the tape drag on Around And Around was apparently unnoticed).
- Empty Heart - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Good Times, Bad Times - Same digital transfer as 2002, which was a stereo transfer. Fade not "helped" in mastering like on the 2002.
- It's All Over Now - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- 2120 - Same digital transfer as 2002, full 3:37 version (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- If You Need Me - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Susie Q - Same digital transfer as 2002.
No. 2
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks), dull/rolled off compared to 2002.
- Time Is On My Side - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- I Can't Be Satisfied - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
Now!
- Everybody Needs Somebody To Love - Same digital transfer as 2002, brighter.
- Heart of Stone - Same digital transfer as 2002. Possibly 2 digital remixes from same 3-track transfer? Vocal is lower in mono than folded stereo. Either that or CSG-esque phase manipulation was used to lower the level of the vocal. Matches 2002 Singles Collection.
- What A Shame - Different digital transfer from 2002.
- Down The Road Apiece - Different digital transfer from 2002, brighter.
- Little Red Rooster - Different digital transfer from 2002.
Out of Our Heads [US]
- Mercy Mercy - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Good Times - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Satisfaction - Same digital transfer as 2002.
Out of Our Heads [UK]
- She Said Yeah - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Talkin' About You - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
- Under Assistant - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- I'm Free - Same digital transfer as 2002.
December's Children
- You Better Move On - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Look What You've Done - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo).
- Get Off Of My Cloud - Same digital transfer as 2002.
- Blue Turns To Grey - Same digital transfer as 2002, same chewed up intro.
Aftermath [UK]
- Mother's Little Helper - Different digital transfer from 2002 (Singles Collection).
- Stupid Girl - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- Lady Jane - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Slight NR in intro (as on 2002). Nearly identical except slight level shift.
- I Am Waiting - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange. Fade is 3 1/2 seconds shorter.
- Think - Compared to a well known needledrop, slightly more midrange, slightly less high end. Fade is 6 seconds shorter.
Aftermath [US]
- Paint It Black - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection). Nearly identical except slight level shift, at least for first half of song. Second half has some odd drift. Faded in mastering at 3:22.
- Under My Thumb - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version.
- I Am Waiting - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is full-length.
- Think - Nearly identical to the corresponding UK version, except the fade is almost full-length (it's still a hair longer on the aforementioned needledrop).
Between The Buttons [UK]
- Yesterday's Papers - Generally very similar sounding to a well known needledrop. Oddly, the fade ends abruptly about 1.5 seconds before the needledrop.
- Back Street Girl - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. A couple of odd dropouts in the fade, but otherwise no issues. It seems that the needledrop is a fold-down of the stereo, while this is a unique mono mix. There are subtle differences in reverb in places, notably on the accordion.
- Cool, Calm & Collected - Generally very similar sounding to the aforementioned needledrop, possibly with a bit more clarity. Possibly from a copy tape? At the end of the fade, there's an abrupt cut, followed by a half second of tape hiss, which then seems to edit to leader. It generally sounds pretty good regardless.
- All Sold Out - A bit less bright than the aforementioned needledrop.
- Please Go Home - Much better than the aforementioned needledrop, which sounds very rolled off and muffled in comparison. HOWEVER, these aren't the same mix. The needledrop matches the stereo mix. On this mono mix, the repeat echo effects are noticeably different. The tone generator (?) throughout the song is also completely different, especially at the end, which seems to indicate it was added live during the mono and stereo mixes. The needledrop is definitely a fold for this song, and it was assumed that no dedicated mono mix existed, so this is something of a surprise. The ABKCO tape listing does reference an "unissued rough mix?" for this and Back Street Girl; perhaps these come from that tape.
- Who's Been Sleeping Here? - Slightly rolled off in comparison to the needledrop, similar to All Sold Out. Interestingly, the tape ends a half second *earlier* on the needledrop.
Flowers
- Ruby Tuesday - Matches the mono mix on the 1989 Singles Collection, and is a significantly better transfer, with more high end. Based on the end of the fade, it looks as if the tape may be a copy, but the sound is definitely superior to whatever was used or done in 1989.
- Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby - Same transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. 2002 fades the fade ever so slightly, not the case here.
- Let's Spend The Night Together - Different transfer from 2002, a bit bassier and rolled off in comparison. End of fade suggests 2002 might be from a copy tape.
- Lady Jane - Matches Aftermath, other than slight level/EQ difference. The tails of the fades are slightly different on all 3, however.
Their Satanic Majesties Request
- In Another Land - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Quite similar to a well known needledrop.
- She's A Rainbow - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Subjectively has a bit more clarity than aforementioned needledrop, and doesn't have a tape problem just before the whistle in the intro that's present on the needledrop.
- The Lantern - Mono mix (3 bells in intro). Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection definitely has some in intro, and possibly throughout song). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop. Needledrop sounds and looks a bit rolled off in comparison.
- 2000 Light Years From Home - Same digital transfer as 2002 (Singles Collection), slight level/EQ difference. Apparently no NR (2002 Singles Collection seems to have some in intro). A bit more clarity (and tape hiss) than needledrop.

Beggars Banquet
- Sympathy For The Devil - Dedicated mono mix, unreleased digitally until now. I don't have a needledrop to compare to, but it sounds pretty good to me. No obvious issues.
- No Expectations - Fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer. Fade is slightly longer.
- Jigsaw Puzzle - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Stray Cat Blues - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
- Salt of the Earth - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync.
Let It Bleed
- Gimme Shelter - Seems to be a fold down of the 2002 stereo transfer, but the two don't quite stay in sync. No NR in intro, or at least less than the 2002.
- Love In Vain - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- Midnight Rambler - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Same digital transfer as 2002 (fold-down; 2002 was stereo), slight level/EQ difference.
Stray Cats
- I've Been Loving You Too Long - Same digital transfer as 2002 (More Hot Rocks) fold-down; (2002 was stereo).
- Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man - Original mix (not 1989 remix), uncensored/unedited, fade matches the original mix. However, it is over 2% slower than other versions (edited 2002/2016, unedited/remixed 1989, random YouTube needledrop of the 45, etc).
- 19th Nervous Breakdown - Different from 2002. No remixed/edited on intro. No static around 0:04 common to many (but not all) older releases. Fade stays louder longer, then fades out more quickly. Light static in first few seconds of intro not present elsewhere. Intermittent hiss present throughout entire song between vocal lines, seemingly due to extreme compression on the vocal track. Audible and noticeable in spectral view. Other differences point to this being a different mix than the original mono mix.
- Con Le Mie Lacrime - Seems a bit muted/rolled off, but this may just be the recording. No obvious issues are noticeable.
- Street Fighting Man - Different from the version on the 2002 Singles Collection. Less midrange and more high end. It seems that the 2002 has some slight NR in places while this doesn't. My guess is this is either a new needledrop of the 45, or a less processed version of the needledrop used in 2002. There's no question they are *different* sounding, but I have a feeling some people may prefer one and some the other.
- Honky Tonk Women - Different from the 2002, not from that (stereo) transfer. It seems that the mono mix is dedicated, and not a fold-down. Some of the lead guitar licks are distorted (and aren't in stereo), and in some places the relative levels are a bit different.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want - Different from the 2002, not from that transfer. The 2002 seems to have NR in many places, this doesn't.

Actually, there are only 38 unique mono masters out of 186 tracks presented in the box. The rest are about the same.

Regarding 2002 remasters. If you have SACD-hybrid discs in digipaks - keep them all. If yours are later single layer re-issues in jewel cases - keep only 12x5, Aftermath, BTB, TSMR, BB, LIB, live albums and compilations.
Thank you for the info: first thing I did after I bought them was to check the imprint, they’re legit.
I do have the 2002 remasters in the digipacks, so I will hang on to both.


What is 'Stray Cats'?;

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 3, 2020 23:00

Quote
Four Stone Walls

What is 'Stray Cats'?;



Mono-Box (2016) - STRAY CATS: This bonus album is a round-up of various single versions of album tracks, B-sides and other odds and ends from 1960s Stones’ recordings. It includes two covers of The Coasters’ Poison Ivy. Barrett Strong’s 1959 hit Money, as well as Fortune Teller – the Stones’ brisk version of a 1962 B-side by the New Orleans singer Benny Spellman. Mick sings, As Tears Go By in Italian and there’s Stoned, the instrumental flip of I Wanna Be Your Man along with the 1965 outtake of Otis Redding’s I’ve Been Loving You Too Long (freed of the fake applause applied to disguise its studio origin when the track appeared on the 1966 LP Got Live If You Want It); and the electric-Chicago B-side Who’s Driving Your Plane. - [TheAudiophileMan.com] , [en.Wikipedia.org] , [www.Discogs.com] , [www.abkco.com] , [iorr.org] .

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: August 3, 2020 23:28

Thank you. Sounds like it's worth having. But not available alone.

Was this series a Stones' release or Universal?

And as I mentioned on the Going Down thread, the Stones' Wyman, was working on something like this before Decca released Metamorphosis.

Re: Rolling Stones in Mono Box vs 2002 Remasters
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 3, 2020 23:35

Quote
Four Stone Walls

Sounds like it's worth having. But not available alone.

You can buy the 'Stray Cats'-Tracks individually on [www.Qobuz.com] , iTunes - [Music.Apple.com] .

Quote
Four Stone Walls

Was this series a Stones' release or Universal?

It was a release by ABKCO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-03 23:40 by Irix.



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Online Users

Guests: 316
Record Number of Users: 184 on May 17, 2018 22:46
Record Number of Guests: 3948 on December 7, 2015 15:07

Previous page Next page First page IORR home