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They have a warehouse of all this stuff. Theres a clip in the 'Being Mick' movie showing reels of old sessions that were being pulled out of an archive as their back catalogue was being remastered/remixed and you could see lists of loads of songs that they've never released. Pretty much every show since the early 70's has supposedly been professionally recorded.
If they dont show much interest in organising their archives and presenting potential releases to them for their final approval, there are plenty of fans who would be quite happy to bite their arms off to help them out. Bill Wyman isn't getting any younger.
I wonder from who you heard that the band doesn't have so much?
I was invited to see a part of a concert from a basement room, where there was a very professional setup run by a video director who was "stearing" five cameramen at the time via 5 TV screens simultaneously (an amazing experience to see!).
He told me that everything from start to finish was recorded for every show for many, many years. There are people both in the U.K. and Belgium responsible for garding loads of studio recordings. So yes, they have soooooooo much, you wouldn't believe it.
And, if they really want to, they can polish poorer recordings (did you see Four Flicks?) to a very satisfying, suitable for not easy to satisfy fans, level.
I would say, they have a luxury "problem"
An embarrassment of riches, if you will?
I think it would add clarity if liner notes stated that, for example, the Roundhouse show is incomplete because the tapes with the remaining tracks were damaged/missing. It would clear up a lot of speculation around these situations.
That's a teaser
What's the definition of luck here?
Totally depending on very occasionally surfacing old Beatles stuff or ....
celebrating the 58th "birthday of the "still alive and kicking" Rolling Stones?
Well, although living in a temporary ghost town, and enjoying that lovely song, I know my answer
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London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 13, 2020 23:31
Why did the Stones release five songs from this show. The sound quality and performances are great, Midnight Rambler is my favorite live version.Too bad they can't clean up the horrible sound of Ladies and Gentlemen to soundlike Roundhouse.I know there are bootlegs of Roundhouse,but they have crappy sound.Will they ever release the completeRoundhouse concert with the quality of the five songs
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 13, 2020 23:34
Wait there .... I'll phone Mick right now
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: July 14, 2020 00:27
The "problem" with the Stones is that there is little common sense in what they do or not do with material they have available (and they have sooooooo much, you wouldn't believe it). To me it appears like "okay, how about doing this or that with some available material", possibly because somebody close by suggests them to do something.
A group of fans suggested decades ago to do something with not used quality material before it hit the bootleg market to the full extend. But no, nothing happened. Now, with Universal wanting to make some real money out of Stones music, they announce a bonus CD with Brussels Affair ?!? My guess is that all diehard fans do have a high quality bootleg version already for decades (at least I have, carrying it along in my car to enjoy all by myself high volume). Now they put it on the market in a way that only "the happy few" with enough money to spend buy it. I don't understand, really 
A group of fans suggested decades ago to do something with not used quality material before it hit the bootleg market to the full extend. But no, nothing happened. Now, with Universal wanting to make some real money out of Stones music, they announce a bonus CD with Brussels Affair ?!? My guess is that all diehard fans do have a high quality bootleg version already for decades (at least I have, carrying it along in my car to enjoy all by myself high volume
). Now they put it on the market in a way that only "the happy few" with enough money to spend buy it. I don't understand, really Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: July 14, 2020 00:42
My bet is they are doing what they can with what they have. And they do not have much. I would like to see some documentation that they "have soooooooo much", because I have always heard the opposite. And if they have soo...much how come they have to consult fan boys to send them material like was suggested recently?
Tapes are hard to keep track of if you do not have a dedicated studio or tape librarian working with you all the way, from the beginning. They had neither and they seemed to have a who cares attitude toward gathering that stuff, aside from Bill Wyman that is. They recorded in a bazillion studios, and I bet rarely cared to collect the tapes they created unless they were or were close to final mix downs. As for live shows, I doubt they have many in releasable quality or they wouldnt be soliciting fans as mentioned above.
yeah you would THINK they would take better care, but these were the Rolling Stones we are talking about, not surrounded by people with a sense of history like the Beatles, and lacking a stable studio environment over the decades. And back when that was more of the case, now ABKCO owns that material and they have to pay someone else just to perform it, much less release it.
In short, again, I think what we are seeing is what they have. That would explain the "common sense" that is apparently lacking in their releases: no need for common sense if you just dont have much of anything to offer to begin with. And all the fans think you got this big vault but really its just an old guy behind the curtain pulling levers and creating illusions.
jb
Tapes are hard to keep track of if you do not have a dedicated studio or tape librarian working with you all the way, from the beginning. They had neither and they seemed to have a who cares attitude toward gathering that stuff, aside from Bill Wyman that is. They recorded in a bazillion studios, and I bet rarely cared to collect the tapes they created unless they were or were close to final mix downs. As for live shows, I doubt they have many in releasable quality or they wouldnt be soliciting fans as mentioned above.
yeah you would THINK they would take better care, but these were the Rolling Stones we are talking about, not surrounded by people with a sense of history like the Beatles, and lacking a stable studio environment over the decades. And back when that was more of the case, now ABKCO owns that material and they have to pay someone else just to perform it, much less release it.
In short, again, I think what we are seeing is what they have. That would explain the "common sense" that is apparently lacking in their releases: no need for common sense if you just dont have much of anything to offer to begin with. And all the fans think you got this big vault but really its just an old guy behind the curtain pulling levers and creating illusions.
jb
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: July 14, 2020 01:10
Whatever they release - people will complain.
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: July 14, 2020 02:44
Conversely, whatever they release - people will buy, before or after they complain.
jb
jb
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 14, 2020 03:42
Very frustrating. Those five songs were the highlight of all the bonus material on the Sticky Fingers package - Leeds is a terrific show, but the Roundhouse tracks are even better.
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 14, 2020 03:48
Quote
jbwelda
My bet is they are doing what they can with what they have. And they do not have much. I would like to see some documentation that they "have soooooooo much", because I have always heard the opposite. And if they have soo...much how come they have to consult fan boys to send them material like was suggested recently?
Tapes are hard to keep track of if you do not have a dedicated studio or tape librarian working with you all the way, from the beginning. They had neither and they seemed to have a who cares attitude toward gathering that stuff, aside from Bill Wyman that is. They recorded in a bazillion studios, and I bet rarely cared to collect the tapes they created unless they were or were close to final mix downs. As for live shows, I doubt they have many in releasable quality or they wouldnt be soliciting fans as mentioned above.
yeah you would THINK they would take better care, but these were the Rolling Stones we are talking about, not surrounded by people with a sense of history like the Beatles, and lacking a stable studio environment over the decades. And back when that was more of the case, now ABKCO owns that material and they have to pay someone else just to perform it, much less release it.
In short, again, I think what we are seeing is what they have. That would explain the "common sense" that is apparently lacking in their releases: no need for common sense if you just dont have much of anything to offer to begin with. And all the fans think you got this big vault but really its just an old guy behind the curtain pulling levers and creating illusions.
jb
They have a warehouse of all this stuff. Theres a clip in the 'Being Mick' movie showing reels of old sessions that were being pulled out of an archive as their back catalogue was being remastered/remixed and you could see lists of loads of songs that they've never released. Pretty much every show since the early 70's has supposedly been professionally recorded.
If they dont show much interest in organising their archives and presenting potential releases to them for their final approval, there are plenty of fans who would be quite happy to bite their arms off to help them out. Bill Wyman isn't getting any younger.
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: July 14, 2020 07:24
> Theres a clip in the 'Being Mick' movie showing reels of old sessions that were
>being pulled out of an archive
I have never seen that movie. Assuming it can be seen on youtube, can you tell me where that part appears? I am interested in seeing that footage.
thanks
jb
>being pulled out of an archive
I have never seen that movie. Assuming it can be seen on youtube, can you tell me where that part appears? I am interested in seeing that footage.
thanks
jb
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: July 14, 2020 07:30
PS: I agree the Roundhouse tracks are killer. I wish the whole performance was there too. That it is not may be a clue as to its availability.
I also think the original Leeds show was great too, and I basically bought the SD Sticky Fingers for it. I have A-B-ed it with my bootleg cd version in "improved sound" and it is heads above it in clarity of sound reproduction, brickwalled as it may be (have not ripped it to find out...it sounds great to my ears). And here of course you got the whole show.
So I am thinking with the Roundhouse there may have been tape problems or degradation or something similar to preclude using more tracks.
jb
I also think the original Leeds show was great too, and I basically bought the SD Sticky Fingers for it. I have A-B-ed it with my bootleg cd version in "improved sound" and it is heads above it in clarity of sound reproduction, brickwalled as it may be (have not ripped it to find out...it sounds great to my ears). And here of course you got the whole show.
So I am thinking with the Roundhouse there may have been tape problems or degradation or something similar to preclude using more tracks.
jb
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: July 14, 2020 08:07
Quote
jbwelda
PS: I agree the Roundhouse tracks are killer. I wish the whole performance was there too. That it is not may be a clue as to its availability.
I also think the original Leeds show was great too, and I basically bought the SD Sticky Fingers for it. I have A-B-ed it with my bootleg cd version in "improved sound" and it is heads above it in clarity of sound reproduction, brickwalled as it may be (have not ripped it to find out...it sounds great to my ears). And here of course you got the whole show.
So I am thinking with the Roundhouse there may have been tape problems or degradation or something similar to preclude using more tracks.
jb
I wonder from who you heard that the band doesn't have so much?
I was invited to see a part of a concert from a basement room, where there was a very professional setup run by a video director who was "stearing" five cameramen at the time via 5 TV screens simultaneously (an amazing experience to see!).
He told me that everything from start to finish was recorded for every show for many, many years. There are people both in the U.K. and Belgium responsible for garding loads of studio recordings. So yes, they have soooooooo much, you wouldn't believe it.
And, if they really want to, they can polish poorer recordings (did you see Four Flicks?) to a very satisfying, suitable for not easy to satisfy fans, level.
I would say, they have a luxury "problem"
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: July 14, 2020 10:27
Four Flicks is modern stuff and so is most of what I believe you are referring to. There is obviously plenty of 90s-on material.
I didn't hear anything from any one source I can point to, I have heard about their lack of interest in creating a live performance legacy for about fifty years now. And have followed their recording career for longer with much the same impression. Not interested in dwelling on the past nor particularly in documenting it, just get the stuff done and out and then go on vacation or on tour.
Now I know you cannot believe everything you hear, now or then, but all I can say is reality is seeming to bear out what that foretold. If there is all this great material, in great quality, then where is it? To believe it exists is to believe the ship is being captained by fools.
But I am prepared to be proven wrong. So, lets see it. "Criss Cross" and similar unfinished, uninspired "jams" are not what I mean by "it". Nor are five tracks when there could have been fifteen. It just makes me think either they are too lazy to care...or there is nothing (vintage) to care about at this point.
Personally I enjoyed all the SD sets I have picked up, for different reasons. Probably could have been better if I personally had picked out everything, but isn't that the way it always goes?
jb
I didn't hear anything from any one source I can point to, I have heard about their lack of interest in creating a live performance legacy for about fifty years now. And have followed their recording career for longer with much the same impression. Not interested in dwelling on the past nor particularly in documenting it, just get the stuff done and out and then go on vacation or on tour.
Now I know you cannot believe everything you hear, now or then, but all I can say is reality is seeming to bear out what that foretold. If there is all this great material, in great quality, then where is it? To believe it exists is to believe the ship is being captained by fools.
But I am prepared to be proven wrong. So, lets see it. "Criss Cross" and similar unfinished, uninspired "jams" are not what I mean by "it". Nor are five tracks when there could have been fifteen. It just makes me think either they are too lazy to care...or there is nothing (vintage) to care about at this point.
Personally I enjoyed all the SD sets I have picked up, for different reasons. Probably could have been better if I personally had picked out everything, but isn't that the way it always goes?
jb
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: July 14, 2020 10:46
You know that Mick is not keen on "looking back", but sometimes he has to please the likes of Universal and others. So a bit of digging in a large heap is needed.
You've been a fan for a long time, so you know for sure about all those soundboard recordings, even from decades ago. Some are put on bootlegs, either with the band looking through their fingers (Dutch expression?) or simply stolen.
I've met those people from the U.K. and Belgium long ago and I have no reason to not believe them. I even lucky to have seen material that still hasn't been out and maybe never will.
But it doesn't matter really. Stones fans are "spoiled" to the bones and "can't always get what they want"
You've been a fan for a long time, so you know for sure about all those soundboard recordings, even from decades ago. Some are put on bootlegs, either with the band looking through their fingers (Dutch expression?) or simply stolen.
I've met those people from the U.K. and Belgium long ago and I have no reason to not believe them. I even lucky to have seen material that still hasn't been out and maybe never will.
But it doesn't matter really. Stones fans are "spoiled" to the bones and "can't always get what they want"
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Honestman
()
Date: July 14, 2020 11:25
Beatles fans get all the luck 
HMN
HMN
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
Father Ted
()
Date: July 14, 2020 11:25
Quote
georgie48Quote
jbwelda
PS: I agree the Roundhouse tracks are killer. I wish the whole performance was there too. That it is not may be a clue as to its availability.
I also think the original Leeds show was great too, and I basically bought the SD Sticky Fingers for it. I have A-B-ed it with my bootleg cd version in "improved sound" and it is heads above it in clarity of sound reproduction, brickwalled as it may be (have not ripped it to find out...it sounds great to my ears). And here of course you got the whole show.
So I am thinking with the Roundhouse there may have been tape problems or degradation or something similar to preclude using more tracks.
jb
I wonder from who you heard that the band doesn't have so much?
I was invited to see a part of a concert from a basement room, where there was a very professional setup run by a video director who was "stearing" five cameramen at the time via 5 TV screens simultaneously (an amazing experience to see!).
He told me that everything from start to finish was recorded for every show for many, many years. There are people both in the U.K. and Belgium responsible for garding loads of studio recordings. So yes, they have soooooooo much, you wouldn't believe it.
And, if they really want to, they can polish poorer recordings (did you see Four Flicks?) to a very satisfying, suitable for not easy to satisfy fans, level.
I would say, they have a luxury "problem"
An embarrassment of riches, if you will?
I think it would add clarity if liner notes stated that, for example, the Roundhouse show is incomplete because the tapes with the remaining tracks were damaged/missing. It would clear up a lot of speculation around these situations.
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: July 14, 2020 15:07
Quote
Taylor1
Will they ever release the complete Roundhouse concerts
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 14, 2020 16:05
Are the songs from Roundhouse consecutive? If so, it could be tape problems. If not, performances weren’t up to par. Jagger nixed Rocks Off, Sweet Black Angel, and others from Ladies & Gentlemen because of the performances.
I don’t think they have a lot of leftover stuff from the 70’s finished, and we’re getting what they do, thankfully. There are probably jams and 1,000 false starts of Tumbling Dice, but I don’t think that’s what Jagger wants released in his lifetime.
I’m wondering if a lot of the bootlegged material we’ve heard is no longer in their possession. They’re releasing instrumentals of GHS songs, but not Potted Shrimp and Prefab?
I’m really surprised about the lack of Fast Talking, that sounds done. Unless Jagger is planning a IORR boxset. I’d welcome that!
I don’t think they have a lot of leftover stuff from the 70’s finished, and we’re getting what they do, thankfully. There are probably jams and 1,000 false starts of Tumbling Dice, but I don’t think that’s what Jagger wants released in his lifetime.
I’m wondering if a lot of the bootlegged material we’ve heard is no longer in their possession. They’re releasing instrumentals of GHS songs, but not Potted Shrimp and Prefab?
I’m really surprised about the lack of Fast Talking, that sounds done. Unless Jagger is planning a IORR boxset. I’d welcome that!
Re: London Roundhouse Questions
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: July 14, 2020 17:26
Quote
Honestman
Beatles fans get all the luck
That's a teaser
What's the definition of luck here?
Totally depending on very occasionally surfacing old Beatles stuff or ....
celebrating the 58th "birthday of the "still alive and kicking" Rolling Stones?
Well, although living in a temporary ghost town, and enjoying that lovely song, I know my answer
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