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Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: MartinB ()
Date: April 7, 2020 17:22

I actually quite like the Four Licks version. A bit messy but that's the charm.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 7, 2020 18:11

Quote
TornAndFried
I always wondered why they didn't play this song live until I heard it on the Licks Tour. Like other classics like 'Rocks Off', 'Sway', 'Torn And Frayed' and 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking' these songs just sound much better on their original album versions. I wish Ronnie was a much better lead guitarist. He is "functional" at best. At worst he is mediocre.

Those you listed and a few others, including this one and Crazy Mama, and they've never done a decent version of She's So Cold as well as She Was Hot; for whatever reasons they can not play those live worth a shit. They're awful.

I've mentioned this elsewhere in the past but it is extremely frustrating that they can play Monkey Man excellently but they can't play Rocks Off etc worth a damn.

Re: Hand of Fate
Date: April 7, 2020 18:28

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Hand of fate is a perfect example of how well the Stones transitioned in the mid 70s compared to other 60s giants. They sound like a 70s band. Better even. Critics might say Jagger was pliable but the cracks didnt show until later in the 80s.

Agree 100%. One thing those rock bands were doing at that time is writing great melodies on top of soaring pop arrangements (Tom Petty, Springsteen, ELO, Deep Purple, Bowie and Lou's Hunter band,Pink Floyd, Todd Rundgren). HOF is such a song. I still think the Bass plays a big part in it.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 7, 2020 19:17

Quote
RawIguanaCologne
Quote
Hairball
I saw them play it at Vredenburg 2003, and I'm pretty sure they played it a couple of other times during the Licks Tour.
Fantastic tune and the studio version is one of my favorites, but live it was a bit messy (and not in the best way) - Ronnie completely screwed up the solo.

Lucky you, can you remember if it sounded good? I mean, this must´ve been the 8th time or so live on this tour as it was in every "club" show by then. I ´m still stunned and shattered and shocked I didn't´t make it to ONE of the small shows!!!!

Yeah, lucky me (that's what the wrist bands said!), but not sure what number it was on the Licks Tour. Skimming through Bjornulf's tour pages, looks like there was a huge lengthy gap where they didn't play it at all between The Wiltern, Nov of '02 and not again until Paris in July '03 so there was alot of rust buildup by the time I saw it at Stockholm and Vredenburg mid July '03 and then mid August '03 respectively. Realistically though, I don't think it matters if they played it every single night for the entire tour - it would probably sound a bit clunky no matter what for a variety of reasons. Whether I actually remember if it sounded good, as I said previously in a different post, I was probably thrilled in the moment to be able to witness it, but with hindsight and listening back to boots (and video clips such as the one that was posted above), every Licks version I've heard suffers quite a bit and Ronnie's solos are torturous. That said, those small shows were stunningly incredible from start to finish (almost like out of body experiences), and I'd be happy as hell to be able to witness a crappy version of Hand of Fate in a small venue again any time - horrible guitar solo and all!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-07 19:21 by Hairball.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: April 7, 2020 19:21

Quote
Taylor1
Wood played a great solo on the Paris 1976 shows.I think on the Licks Tour the fault is mostly with Darryl.He can’t play it with the genius of Bill.He has no sense of rhythm

I do think the Stones lost a lot of the "roll" in their "rock" when Wyman left the band, but to say Darryl Jones has no sense of rhythm? Come on. Darryl definitely has a different sense of rhythm from Bill, but it's still a sense. Darryl plays more academically it seems to me, which does often make me miss Bill even more and makes me wonder why Miles chose him since I hardly think of Miles as academic, but he unquestionably lays it down and maybe they liked that he was safe and reliable that way. And I'm guessing Charlie liked the Miles Davis connection, too.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-07 20:30 by floodonthepage.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: April 7, 2020 23:27

saw it at Cirkus Stockholm 2003....Keith missed the bridge, but figured it out in time.

Good tune.

Daryl's cool and a good bass player.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: mjaggergirl ()
Date: April 8, 2020 03:33

Am I remembering correctly that mick made a joke about it has too many lyrics...?

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: April 8, 2020 03:50

Hand of Fate … It's a cowboy rocker ……

They shoulda used it in Red River Rock ….
cool film

lurv Lara Flynn Boyle's arse … hair and jacket ….. ooooww babeeeeeeeeeee



ROCKMAN

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: April 8, 2020 05:33

It borders on reggae too. Always thought it was the standout track from the album. Great lyrical picture too.

jb

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: RobertJohnson ()
Date: April 8, 2020 10:47

Ronnie on top: [youtu.be]

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: deardoctor ()
Date: April 8, 2020 12:13

The versions of the licks tour are better than nothing, I wish, I´d been witnessed to one of them.

They released the four-flicks version (paris 2003) as a single b-side.
A strange deciscion, ´cause Jagger missed the chorus...

Re: Hand of Fate
Date: April 8, 2020 13:14

Quote
deardoctor
The versions of the licks tour are better than nothing, I wish, I´d been witnessed to one of them.

They released the four-flicks version (paris 2003) as a single b-side.
A strange deciscion, ´cause Jagger missed the chorus...

It was already released on Four Flicks for the world to see smiling smiley

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: deardoctor ()
Date: April 8, 2020 13:32

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
deardoctor
The versions of the licks tour are better than nothing, I wish, I´d been witnessed to one of them.

They released the four-flicks version (paris 2003) as a single b-side.
A strange deciscion, ´cause Jagger missed the chorus...

It was already released on Four Flicks for the world to see smiling smiley

Yes, you´re right of course. But would that bother the Stones? If I remember right, the release as a b-side was about three years later than FOUR FLICKS.
And there were other example:
The St. Louis-Concert from 1997 had been released as py per view and WAITING ON A FRIEND appeared later on NO SECURITY with clearly overdubbed vocals.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: April 8, 2020 14:23

They played it 9 times - 2002 - 2003 - club shows only.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: steenhorst ()
Date: April 8, 2020 15:26

very ''Taylor'' .....

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: JTHanis ()
Date: April 8, 2020 15:30

Quote
mjaggergirl
Am I remembering correctly that mick made a joke about it has too many lyrics...?

He did. Backstage at the Palais Royale he says "and we're not going to do Hand of Fate with all its words.."

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: buttons67 ()
Date: April 9, 2020 03:09

something about hand of fate i like, its never a classic stones and dosent come from a classic album, but black and blue has always been regarded highly for its production value and hand of fate fits in with this, its one of those songs that just grows on you, you love for a while then forget about it for a while to.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 9, 2020 09:12

I didn't like it when the album came out. Although it was a typical Stones rocker, it seemed out of place on that album, which had a funkier feel to it. I've grown to like it. It's very well produced.

As for Darryl, he's just not part of the three legged stool, Keith, Bill, and Charlie. That's always been the musical spine of the Golden Age Stones. The rest of the band could be playing like crap on stage. Bill would come forward and put some kind of sense to it. Wrap them up in melody. I swear, nothing against Daryll personally, but his playing has absolutely no presence, no emotion. He doesn't even nail everything down. He's just there. Filling a space.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: April 9, 2020 11:20

To 24FPS's point - objective evidence among other songs is found in Still Life - Wyman's bass playing during that tour was incredible.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: April 9, 2020 11:20

To 24FPS's point - objective evidence among other songs is found in Still Life - Wyman's bass playing during that tour was incredible.

Re: Hand of Fate
Date: April 9, 2020 14:46

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TornAndFried
I always wondered why they didn't play this song live until I heard it on the Licks Tour. Like other classics like 'Rocks Off', 'Sway', 'Torn And Frayed' and 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking' these songs just sound much better on their original album versions. I wish Ronnie was a much better lead guitarist. He is "functional" at best. At worst he is mediocre.

Those you listed and a few others, including this one and Crazy Mama, and they've never done a decent version of She's So Cold as well as She Was Hot; for whatever reasons they can not play those live worth a shit. They're awful.

I've mentioned this elsewhere in the past but it is extremely frustrating that they can play Monkey Man excellently but they can't play Rocks Off etc worth a damn.

I have to disagree there.

Maybe,of all those mentioned,you could make an argument that they struggle with "She's So Cold" however,I have heard good live versions of all of those songs.

One of the best live versions of "Hand of Fate" were the first live versions in Frankfurt '76 but,some in 2002 as well.Maybe not at the same level.Still decent versions,though.

They usually struggle more with performing decent versions of "Miss You", "Sympathy for the Devil", and even "Brown Sugar" post -1973.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: April 9, 2020 15:28

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TornAndFried
I always wondered why they didn't play this song live until I heard it on the Licks Tour. Like other classics like 'Rocks Off', 'Sway', 'Torn And Frayed' and 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking' these songs just sound much better on their original album versions. I wish Ronnie was a much better lead guitarist. He is "functional" at best. At worst he is mediocre.

Those you listed and a few others, including this one and Crazy Mama, and they've never done a decent version of She's So Cold as well as She Was Hot; for whatever reasons they can not play those live worth a shit. They're awful.

I've mentioned this elsewhere in the past but it is extremely frustrating that they can play Monkey Man excellently but they can't play Rocks Off etc worth a damn.

I have to disagree there.

Maybe,of all those mentioned,you could make an argument that they struggle with "She's So Cold" however,I have heard good live versions of all of those songs.

One of the best live versions of "Hand of Fate" were the first live versions in Frankfurt '76 but,some in 2002 as well.Maybe not at the same level.Still decent versions,though.

They usually struggle more with performing decent versions of "Miss You", "Sympathy for the Devil", and even "Brown Sugar" post -1973.



Could it be the slower tempo? Of course that song cannot be altered in any manner

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 9, 2020 17:20

No one could replace Bill

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: April 9, 2020 20:13

Quote
Taylor1
No one could replace Bill

thankfully Mick/Keef/Charlie/Ron didn't see it that way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 20:14 by stickyfingers101.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 9, 2020 20:37

I mean replaced meaning equaled.And Ronnie had no input in Bill’s”replacement”.He wasn’t even a full member until Bill left. And if he did have a say in picking one, it would have maybe been a better choice.Jones may be a great bass player,but IMO has never had the right chemistry for this band

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: More Hot Rocks ()
Date: April 9, 2020 20:50

Quote
Taylor1
I mean replaced meaning equaled.And Ronnie had no input in Bill’s”replacement”.He wasn’t even a full member until Bill left. And if he did have a say in picking one, it would have maybe been a better choice.Jones may be a great bass player,but IMO has never had the right chemistry for this band

I guess you now more than Charlie

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 9, 2020 20:56

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Taylor1
I mean replaced meaning equaled.And Ronnie had no input in Bill’s”replacement”.He wasn’t even a full member until Bill left. And if he did have a say in picking one, it would have maybe been a better choice.Jones may be a great bass player,but IMO has never had the right chemistry for this band

I guess you now more than Charlie

Guess so. We're the ones who buy the records. The ones who pay big bucks to go see and hear them.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 9, 2020 20:58

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TornAndFried
I always wondered why they didn't play this song live until I heard it on the Licks Tour. Like other classics like 'Rocks Off', 'Sway', 'Torn And Frayed' and 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking' these songs just sound much better on their original album versions. I wish Ronnie was a much better lead guitarist. He is "functional" at best. At worst he is mediocre.

Those you listed and a few others, including this one and Crazy Mama, and they've never done a decent version of She's So Cold as well as She Was Hot; for whatever reasons they can not play those live worth a shit. They're awful.

I've mentioned this elsewhere in the past but it is extremely frustrating that they can play Monkey Man excellently but they can't play Rocks Off etc worth a damn.

I have to disagree there.

Maybe,of all those mentioned,you could make an argument that they struggle with "She's So Cold" however,I have heard good live versions of all of those songs.

One of the best live versions of "Hand of Fate" were the first live versions in Frankfurt '76 but,some in 2002 as well.Maybe not at the same level.Still decent versions,though.

They usually struggle more with performing decent versions of "Miss You", "Sympathy for the Devil", and even "Brown Sugar" post -1973.


In many instances the best versions delivered live were the ones closer to the bone studio wise. They seem to forget over time the original essence of a song. And some songs seem incapable of repeating on stage. I've never heard a decent version of She's So Cold that captures the studio recording.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: April 10, 2020 14:44

one of the best tracks to listen to in the car while driving....one of my favorite all time Stones tracks. Too bad they haven't played it more frequently.

Re: Hand of Fate
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 10, 2020 17:13

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Taylor1
I mean replaced meaning equaled.And Ronnie had no input in Bill’s”replacement”.He wasn’t even a full member until Bill left. And if he did have a say in picking one, it would have maybe been a better choice.Jones may be a great bass player,but IMO has never had the right chemistry for this band

I guess you now more than Charlie
. Well,people who hate some of Mick’s solo albums or Stone’s songs like Streets of Love must know more than Mick.Let me ask you this,if Charlie had retired in 1994 and was replaced by Steve Jordan,or someonelse,would the band be as good?

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