For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
Father Ted
Hands up if you were aware that these releases were going to be placed on YouTube in advance?
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Impossible, as there are tons of other outtakes they didn't "publish" from 1967 and 1968. 1969, too, for that matter.
Quote
DelticsQuote
DandelionPowderman
Impossible, as there are tons of other outtakes they didn't "publish" from 1967 and 1968. 1969, too, for that matter.
I was expecting something, ABKCO have posted "Copyright Preservation" tracks every year since 2016.
Quote
JMARKOQuote
His MajestyQuote
dcbaQuote
His Majesty
1969 is the starting point. No one has yet proven it isn't from 1969.
ABKCO have tried to sell us a 1969 "shelter" that was recorded 9 years later... It took the most perspicacious IORR members (not me btw...) about 10 minutes to find the correct attribution for this track.
Yes, but I am talking about this new Ruby Tuesday.
It actually took me the first 10-15 seconds of hearing it.
The keyboards/mix are dead giveaways.
Quote
nellcote'71
There is an article dated today on these recording on Variety.com right now which quotes this thread on IORR.
If it hasn't already been posted maybe someone can post it.
Quote
retired_dogQuote
jlowe
Will be interesting to see how ABKCO deal with CS Blues/Schoolboy Blues track twelve months from now. One view is that it has already been officially released, others not sure. Also there could be other takes of the track lying around.
The saga continues! I'm sure Mick will have a smile on his face.. thinking....50 years on....LOL
CS Blues is actually an unreleased composition, and though not the recording itself, but the songwriters (copy)right to allow or veto a release ends 70 years after their death. Consequently, even if the recording falls into the public domain at the end of this year, Jagger/Richards could stop a release through their songwriters copyright.
Quote
jloweQuote
retired_dogQuote
jlowe
Will be interesting to see how ABKCO deal with CS Blues/Schoolboy Blues track twelve months from now. One view is that it has already been officially released, others not sure. Also there could be other takes of the track lying around.
The saga continues! I'm sure Mick will have a smile on his face.. thinking....50 years on....LOL
CS Blues is actually an unreleased composition, and though not the recording itself, but the songwriters (copy)right to allow or veto a release ends 70 years after their death. Consequently, even if the recording falls into the public domain at the end of this year, Jagger/Richards could stop a release through their songwriters copyright.
Yes, I've checked with the ASCAP title search and the composition is registered. Strangely the Music Publisher is listed as Colgems-EMI rather than ABKCO, even though it was written and recorded during the Klein era. (1970). Or maybe it was after the ABKCO contract expired but before they set up their own companies.
I hadn't realised the Songwriters could refuse use of their composition even if they don't hold the Copyright? Which isnt clear.
Quote
retired_dogQuote
jloweQuote
retired_dogQuote
jlowe
Will be interesting to see how ABKCO deal with CS Blues/Schoolboy Blues track twelve months from now. One view is that it has already been officially released, others not sure. Also there could be other takes of the track lying around.
The saga continues! I'm sure Mick will have a smile on his face.. thinking....50 years on....LOL
CS Blues is actually an unreleased composition, and though not the recording itself, but the songwriters (copy)right to allow or veto a release ends 70 years after their death. Consequently, even if the recording falls into the public domain at the end of this year, Jagger/Richards could stop a release through their songwriters copyright.
Yes, I've checked with the ASCAP title search and the composition is registered. Strangely the Music Publisher is listed as Colgems-EMI rather than ABKCO, even though it was written and recorded during the Klein era. (1970). Or maybe it was after the ABKCO contract expired but before they set up their own companies.
I hadn't realised the Songwriters could refuse use of their composition even if they don't hold the Copyright? Which isnt clear.
Songwriters usually sign with publishing companies for a contractual share of incoming royalties. However, songwriters always have the right to allow or veto the first release/publication of a composition, just like they retain the right to allow or veto the use of their compositions for advertising campaigns, the use of foreign language lyrics instead of the original lyrics etc. All these are personal rights guaranteed by law that songwriters usually can't even sign away in contractual agreements even if they want to.
Quote
MrEcho
Since the tracks have disappeared and the labeling was a bit of a mess here's an overview of what was available (130 tracks, some were posted twice):
1969-11-07 Fort Collins, Moby Gymnasium
- I'm Free
- Honky Tonk Women
1969-11-08 Los Angeles, Inglewood Forum (1st or 2nd?)
- Introduction (posted twice)
- JJF
1969-11-09 Oakland 1st
complete show
1969-11-09 Oakland 2nd
complete show except for Live With Me and Street Fighting Man
1969-11-11 Phoenix
- You Gotta Move
1969-11-15 Champaign 1st
complete show (Love In Vain, Prodigal Son, Under My Thumb and Street Fighting Man were posted twice)
1969-11-27 New York City, MSG
complete show
1969-11-28 New York City, MSG 1st
- JJF
- Carol
- Sympathy
1969-11-28 New York City, MSG 2nd
complete show
1969-11-30 West Palm Beach
complete show except for Honky Tonk Women
1969-12-06 Altamont
complete show
Studio (17 tracks)
- Brown Sugar (alternate Hot Rocks version)
- Gimme Shelter (alternate version)
- Gimme Shelter (early version)
- Gimme Shelter (Keith Richards on lead vocal)
- Honky Tonk Women (alternate lyric version)
- Honky Tonk Women (country rock instrumental version)
- Let It Bleed (Olympic Sound April - instrumental)
- Love In Vain (bluesier version)
- Midnight Rambler (instrumental)
- Ruby Tuesday
- Sister Morphhie (early version)
- Stray Cat Blues (Olympic Sound April)
- Sympathy for the Devil (Olympic Sound April - with vocals)
- Wild Horses (alternate Hot Rocks version)
- Wild Horses (with strings and glass harmonica)
- You Can't Always Get What You Want (choir sessions)
- You Got The Silver (Mick Jagger on lead vocal)
Quote
jloweQuote
retired_dogQuote
jloweQuote
retired_dogQuote
jlowe
Will be interesting to see how ABKCO deal with CS Blues/Schoolboy Blues track twelve months from now. One view is that it has already been officially released, others not sure. Also there could be other takes of the track lying around.
The saga continues! I'm sure Mick will have a smile on his face.. thinking....50 years on....LOL
CS Blues is actually an unreleased composition, and though not the recording itself, but the songwriters (copy)right to allow or veto a release ends 70 years after their death. Consequently, even if the recording falls into the public domain at the end of this year, Jagger/Richards could stop a release through their songwriters copyright.
Yes, I've checked with the ASCAP title search and the composition is registered. Strangely the Music Publisher is listed as Colgems-EMI rather than ABKCO, even though it was written and recorded during the Klein era. (1970). Or maybe it was after the ABKCO contract expired but before they set up their own companies.
I hadn't realised the Songwriters could refuse use of their composition even if they don't hold the Copyright? Which isnt clear.
Songwriters usually sign with publishing companies for a contractual share of incoming royalties. However, songwriters always have the right to allow or veto the first release/publication of a composition, just like they retain the right to allow or veto the use of their compositions for advertising campaigns, the use of foreign language lyrics instead of the original lyrics etc. All these are personal rights guaranteed by law that songwriters usually can't even sign away in contractual agreements even if they want to.
Thanks for the clarification.
I wonder if a cover version has been attempted.
I would love to hear a Rap version of CS Blues one day!
Quote
retired_dog
However, songwriters always have the right to allow or veto the first release/publication of a composition, just like they retain the right to allow or veto the use of their compositions for advertising campaigns, the use of foreign language lyrics instead of the original lyrics etc. All these are personal rights guaranteed by law that songwriters usually can't even sign away in contractual agreements even if they want to.
Quote
dcba
Acc. to zentgraf RT comes from the R&R Circus rehearsals. Sounds plausible to me.
Quote
His MajestyQuote
dcba
Acc. to zentgraf RT comes from the R&R Circus rehearsals. Sounds plausible to me.
Sonically it doesn't. Also the maracas are far too consistent to be Brian.
It's a studio recording.
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
His MajestyQuote
dcba
Acc. to zentgraf RT comes from the R&R Circus rehearsals. Sounds plausible to me.
Sonically it doesn't. Also the maracas are far too consistent to be Brian.
It's a studio recording.
Yep (Mick did two vocal tracks on the choruses), but the big question is... why?
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
His MajestyQuote
dcba
Acc. to zentgraf RT comes from the R&R Circus rehearsals. Sounds plausible to me.
Sonically it doesn't. Also the maracas are far too consistent to be Brian.
It's a studio recording.
Yep (Mick did two vocal tracks on the choruses), but the big question is... why?
That they are 'rehearsals' for Circus sounds plausible, but not that they were recorded at the circus.
The sound is too full etc and different to actual circus recordings. That full and beautiful Olympic sound.
So, I say recordings done at Olympic for/in preparation for The R&R Circus in early December 1968.
Quote
His MajestyQuote
dcba
Acc. to zentgraf RT comes from the R&R Circus rehearsals. Sounds plausible to me.
Sonically it doesn't. Also the maracas are far too consistent to be Brian.
Quote
dcba
Rocky Dijon then? Doing "chik-a-chik-a-chik" doesn't seem that hard...
Quote
Mathijs
So both Sympathy and RT could be from the Circus rehearsals?
The statement about 1+1 is from Miller in the Alan Clayson book, but he only mentions 'recordings' for the film, not any specific songs.
Mathijs
Quote
jlowe
Unlike some of the Dylan Copyright issues we haven't had multiple recordings /takes of the same composition.
So, presumably there are still lots of alternative takes out there, in ABKCO vaults, Stones vaults, and in private hands.
Those in the latter category are now in the Public Domain?
And could be released on the iorr label?