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Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Date: December 28, 2019 13:51

Quote
Bliss
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Quote
Swayed1967
I find the ending rather disappointing. Up to point when Chas shoots Turner in the head I’m completely riveted by Turner’s androgynous, druggy lifestyle even if there are times when I struggle to process the madness of it all but when I see Turner’s face in the car I realize I’ve been duped – left with the feeling that, damn, after all this was nothing but amateurish avant-garde silliness.

The movie starts out like SUNSET BLVD. with Chas (like William Holden's character) seeking refuge in a reclusive star's decadent and bizarre household. The ending works beautifully for me, because like SUNSET BLVD. it descends into madness.

By the end, Chas has become everything he despised in Turner, his peer by generation only. He's also watched Turner effortlessly step into Chas' world and control the mobsters who run the record business. Chas being seduced by a decadent life as he loses himself is one thing, watching Turner best him by one-upping the older generation's hardened mobsters/businessmen is too much for Chas to bear.

Chas descends into paranoid schizophrenia as he already feels he's become two different people and thereby compromised his already compromised principles (after all, the gangster's thug judged the decadent rock star as his moral inferior). Now, in his delusion, he believes Turner has stolen his old persona from him.

Turner and his women have seduced and victimized Chas, the very feeling a street thug is supposed to protect himself from by his command of violence. Now Turner has proven himself stronger in Chas' world than Chas could ever be for Turner controls the room as the Performer while Chas is a soldier at best and expendable at worst. Turner makes him realize all soldiers are expendable and has exposed his belief that violence is power to be self-deception.

Turner, as a truly Satanic figure, embraces madness because his world is chaos over order, darkness over light. So in an effort to restore the perceived imbalance, Chas kills Turner, but in Chas' mind this completes the transference and he retreats into Turner by performing his murder.

Chas accepts that the one thing stronger than the illusion of violence as power is the belief that madness and chaos control the world. It doesn't matter that Chas is being driven off as a condemned man prepared to meet his fate, in his mind he is now Turner and has won by escaping reality forever. The performance achieves madness.

In its own messed-up way, it's a logical and nearly flawless film.

Fantastic analysis and summary.

Yes, this is true. Turner takes the gangsters on and out. He definitely comes out on top by the end of the song video within the film, but I don't think I'd ever seen it put that cut and dried.
I wouldn't say that Turner lives happily ever after ( after all he does get killed), but he lives on in Chas.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 28, 2019 19:37


……………………..………………………………………. Photo Cecil Beaton



ROCKMAN

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: mickschix ()
Date: December 28, 2019 20:29

Thanks for your support, ROCKY DIJON, and I must say I enjoyed your analysis of Performance. It is a complex film on quite a few levels and it's a film that should be viewed several times. I know that I had to see it about 4 times before I figured it all out...or at least felt satisfied with my take on it. After reading some of the opinions here, I must say I've had to rethink a few things! Question: when did the word " WHORE" become so off-limits...on a STONES SITE no less!? When did STONES FANS become so easily offended? I never knew that Anita had such a fan base! LOL!!!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 28, 2019 20:56

My own take on Anita was that she was a very elevated kind of groupie. Unfortunately, she had a strong self-destructive streak and took others down with her.

But I give her credit for four things:

1. She overcame her worst demons, drugs and alcohol, and managed to survive to her mid-70s.

2. She completed a very competitive and demanding professional course in fashion design at the prestigious Central St. Martins, at an advanced age.

3. She retained the loyalty of her son, Keith and many friends throughout her life.

4. She never seemed bitter or blamed others in any of her interviews.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 28, 2019 21:02

I love Anita. I find her captivating and fascinating in no small part because she was dangerous to be around. I also understand viewing her as a toxic person.

There are individuals who make you feel so complete in the short term, but in the long run are going to cause you so much more pain than anyone else you ever knew. There are all sorts of labels like narcissist and sociopath tossed around for concepts that are as old as time. Such people you either end up hating or understanding it had to end, but you still cherish the good times. I think of Anita that way with a fair amount of projection, of course. From that perspective, I understood mickschix's reaction and even how intensely she dislikes Anita.

As for the actual language used, I would think it inappropriate if you were having a conversation with Marlon and Angela. Otherwise, it seemed in keeping for a board dedicated to a band where one half lovingly sings, "Ah, the little bitch has got soul" or the other sings about his children asking him, "Did you chase all the whores on the rock 'n' roll rumble?"

These are the guys that unapologetically wrote "Stupid Girl," "Under My Thumb," "Brown Sugar," and "Some Girls." They aren't likely to choose words carefully for fear of offending. We live in a world that tries to take the moral high ground now. I get that people's hearts are in the right place, but not swearing or expressing rage or tension is simply not in keeping with The Stones or even the blues.

Obviously others and even Bjornulf might not agree. I tend to blanch at any type of censorship. Correctness is still censorship, just from another direction than what we're accustomed to finding it in the West. Again, it's well-intentioned but I suppose it always was. Even Mick recently publicly asked for a more polite world.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-28 21:04 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: December 28, 2019 21:51

Quote
Bliss
My own take on Anita was that she was a very elevated kind of groupie. Unfortunately, she had a strong self-destructive streak and took others down with her.

But I give her credit for four things:

1. She overcame her worst demons, drugs and alcohol, and managed to survive to her mid-70s.

2. She completed a very competitive and demanding professional course in fashion design at the prestigious Central St. Martins, at an advanced age.

3. She retained the loyalty of her son, Keith and many friends throughout her life.

4. She never seemed bitter or blamed others in any of her interviews.

5. Never felt the need to write a kiss and tell autobiography.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 28, 2019 22:02

Fixed it for you.

>>>5. Never felt the need to write a kiss and tell autobiography in exchange for lifetime financial support from Keith and/or the Stones org.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Date: December 29, 2019 02:00

Quote
mickschix
Thanks for your support, ROCKY DIJON, and I must say I enjoyed your analysis of Performance. It is a complex film on quite a few levels and it's a film that should be viewed several times. I know that I had to see it about 4 times before I figured it all out...or at least felt satisfied with my take on it. After reading some of the opinions here, I must say I've had to rethink a few things! Question: when did the word " WHORE" become so off-limits...on a STONES SITE no less!? When did STONES FANS become so easily offended? I never knew that Anita had such a fan base! LOL!!!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

thumbs upthumbs up

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: mickschix ()
Date: December 30, 2019 07:40

Well said Rocky thumbs upDijon!!! Couldn't have said it better myself....Oh, geez, wait...I DID say it!! LOL!!! Happy New Year to you & yours and even to the prudes out there!cool smiley I can't imagine what would have been said had I not censored my original comments!! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: December 30, 2019 14:41

Quote
Bliss
Fixed it for you.

>>>5. Never felt the need to write a kiss and tell autobiography in exchange for lifetime financial support from Keith and/or the Stones org.

What? Surely you are not suggesting that Keith wished to silence Anita with hush money?
Disgraceful, if true.
More seriously, after a 15 or so years relationship and two children, she would have been entitled to a very good financial settlement anyway. All credit however
to both parties that an arrangement was made without the apparant need for litigation and inevitably press intrusion into their financial affairs.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 30, 2019 15:37

^^^ He'd have done well to pay off Spanish Tony too.

But then we would have missed what is probably the most accurate, atmospheric, and exciting 1st-hand account of the Stones at their peak.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: TIRED ()
Date: December 30, 2019 21:38

I also saw the movie again after a long time, about a year ago. It is difficult for us Stones fans to make an objective statement, especially since "Performance" is even considered Jagger's best film.

However, Stones passion and Jagger love aside, this movie is far from a masterpiece. It was experimental and brave in many ways but also amateurish and superficial in others. Without Jagger and Pallenberg it would never have gained this kind of fame, it simply fails to impress the film lover in me. Even the images paired with the outstanding "Memo From Turner" were weak and inappropriate.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 30, 2019 22:13

I don't think anyone called PERFORMANCE a cinematic masterpiece. It is a great art film of its era, but I wouldn't call LOST HIGHWAY or BLUE VELVET cinematic masterpieces either for all their visual flair and disturbing and provocative scenes.

As for saying take away Mick and Anita and PERFORMANCE wouldn't work, isn't that true even of the greatest films? Take Orson Welles out of CITIZEN KANE and replace him with Edward Everett Horton, would it still be brilliant? Take Bogart and Bergman out of CASABLANCA and replace them with Elisha Cook, Jr. and Evelyn Keyes, would it still be a classic?

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 31, 2019 00:01

FYI, Tuesday Weld was scheduled to play Pherber but she had to drop out due to having broken her arm.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: angee ()
Date: December 31, 2019 00:55

IMO: The word "whore" is not offensive in and of itself, but to call someone a whore is a fairly serious insult, implying the person trades sex for money, indiscriminately. If that is meant, many of us may disagree. If it is used more casually, as meaning a woman who has sex or relationships with a number of people in a short time, that is another question.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: mickschix ()
Date: December 31, 2019 05:30

Angee, many of you MAY disagree....that's called freedom of speech!

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: angee ()
Date: December 31, 2019 06:47

Sure.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 31, 2019 15:27

Name-calling is one thing, suggesting Anita shot Scott Cantrell is another. I think I'd rather be called a whore than a murderer, but I'm old enough to remember when name-calling was ignored or, at worst, earned you a punch or slap. Stones women will always be portrayed as promiscuous gold-diggers. That's why they ended up in the band's sphere to begin with. One doesn't expect rock stars to date lonely housewives.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: angee ()
Date: December 31, 2019 17:09

Ha, good point on the murderer.

You're probably old enough to remember too when name-calling was not automatically broadcast in writing to thousands of people with one click.

I have to think about that promiscuous gold-digger label. Hmm, just for an example, Patti (Richards) was at Studio 54 but I doubt if too many ever called her that. I could be wrong.

~"Love is Strong"~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-31 17:09 by angee.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 31, 2019 17:37

That's actually a very good point about social media. It's easy to feel you're talking to friends only.

Sometimes I wish these were private clubs that could only be accessed by members.

No, Patti was never branded that way nor Bianca. Others haven't been so fortunate.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 31, 2019 19:18

Bianca was the girlfriend of an important French record exec named Eddy Barclay and then she was the girlfriend of Michael Caine. She was a beautiful girl from a poor family in a Third World country who won a scholarship to Paris; she was definitely on the way up.

Patti was a top model and a wild party girl.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 31, 2019 19:34

And no, Anita didn't murder Scott Cantrell, but she had a certain responsibility: he was only 17, there were guns around, drugs were likely involved, and she didn't stop him from playing Russian roulette which resulted in his untimely death.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: January 2, 2020 18:23

Quote
angee
Ha, good point on the murderer.

You're probably old enough to remember too when name-calling was not automatically broadcast in writing to thousands of people with one click.

I have to think about that promiscuous gold-digger label. Hmm, just for an example, Patti (Richards) was at Studio 54 but I doubt if too many ever called her that. I could be wrong.

thumbs up

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: January 2, 2020 22:23

Quote
Bliss
^^^ He'd have done well to pay off Spanish Tony too.

But then we would have missed what is probably the most accurate, atmospheric, and exciting 1st-hand account of the Stones at their peak.

i think the closest we have to that is Stanley Booth's book. agreed, if Anita had written one, wow..

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 10, 2020 01:20





------>>>> [thisdayinmusicbooks.com]



ROCKMAN

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: January 10, 2020 11:51

Looking forward to the Author (a Forum member) adding his own insights into his research for the book.
Hope it gets the right amount of publicity and media attention (but please not a Daily Mail "exclusive " on Brian/ drug busts/Toronto... of which I cannot believe all hasnt been said already).
For me her early years and post Keith period will be the most interesting.
Deserving it's own Forum thread, soon?

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: January 10, 2020 13:28

From the description, it looks to be a whitewashing of the destructive and toxic side of Anita.

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: vertigojoe ()
Date: January 20, 2020 10:06

I see James Fox’s son managed to get a little heat for his PC busting performance on BBC’s Question Time last week.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Should have invoked the spirit of Chas!

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 20, 2020 12:26

Cant watch down here ….

What did Lawrence get flamed for ???



ROCKMAN

Re: Performance film with Mick. Thoughts?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: January 20, 2020 18:53

[www.mirror.co.uk]

He said he was tired of talking about racism in regards to Meghan Markle (who until this article, I never knew was mixed race - oddly, this still fails to make her an interesting person to me) and a silly argument erupted over whether it was racist to think that being tired of discussing racism was racist or if picking on him for having the poor sense to be born white was also racist.

Basically, it was like most television. Idiots saying idiotic things in the hopes of keeping people watching. Nothing meaningful, just name-calling and each side claiming moral superiority when in fact both are being prats.

I also learned James Fox's former daughter-in-law was the girl from DOCTOR WHO. Not exactly interesting either, but like Meghan Markle's parentage, a factoid I may recall.

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