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Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 5, 2018 02:56

I don't want any "Beatles/Abba/-sing-a-long-quality", I don't think that's any criterion to do with the Stones melody beautiness. Take all those ballads like rubytuesdays, astearsgobys, ladyjanes, backstreetgirls etc. that pretty common stuff for any decent pop writers. The Stones melodical greatness lies in somewhere else, painted in blue. For me the melody and the whole atmosphere of "Winter" is one of the best things they - or anyone - ever have one (Yeah, Taylor's guitar has an distinctive role in it). The way the chorus goes, with all those little but genious note changes is simply unique. So beautiful. The same is with things like "Sway" or, as noted here, "Rocks Off": an incredibly genious, beautiful melody line for a pure simple rock song. Just play those things with piano, slow the tempo a bit, and you will hear the pure genious. "100 Years Ago", a bit more more flashy done with a bigger structure, but that's another too. There are many, many others as well. If we want more typical 'ballads', "All About You" is terrific, for example. "Waiting On A Friend", "Moonlight Mile", "Wild Horses"... even cheesy "Angie". All of those things have the unique blues-touch written in melody I admire on most beautiful Jagger/Richards tunes. The melody of "Sympathy For The Devil" is damn beautiful in its simplicity and distinctiviness as well. The list goes on (but most likely would cover most their mature but still fresh late-60's/early 70's material).

It could be that I understood the question wrong, if the thing is to estimate which Stones song sounds most like some easy-listening, conservative Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel or Abba evergreen. For me the beautifulness of the melody lies in somewhere else as far as the Stones are concerned.

- Doxa

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 5, 2018 03:04

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The litmus test on good melodies is often whether you can hum or whistle them (and hopefully they still sound good and recognisable).

We are not talking about how catchy the tunes are but how beautiful they are here...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-05 03:04 by Doxa.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: October 5, 2018 04:14

i wanna be your man is pretty hummable.
Give it a try fans!! smileys with beer

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: October 5, 2018 04:20

One objection only, Doxa, but a vital one, now you are narrowing down the diversity of what Rolling Stones music may comprise with decency. The call in the opening post, however, was for songs that are described as "beautiful melodies". There are many, can I call it, idioms for that in the Rolling Stones canon. You seem to insist in excluding some of them. I am not embarassed by one of them more or less ( I would still say less) overlapping with a Beatles mode, but am attracted to them as well with their marked Stones characteristic difference. I am very surprised by your remark with a quite general aim that Beatles' songmaking was conservative, without qualification, then meaning all over. (I have never been attracted to Simon & Garfunkel, and I see no relationship there. The German Decca compilation box THE BEST OF THE REST has got a track, where the Stones are joyfully and shamelessly playing around with the Ronettes song " Be My Baby". I guess that you hardly can like or even accept it, where I do).

Ì may be attracted to music out of different reasons. What I am often attracted to, is music that I myself find has got an emotional intensity in some way, even if I may by taste exclude much music that also does. For instance, "Indian Girl" that possibly for you are easy listening music, to me has that superb quality. The two songs I nominate in this thread, may for some listeners be heard as easy listening. That is not the reason for their appeal to me.

By the way, apparently within your boundaries, there is one beautiful Keith sung song, not mentionned, I think. I seem to remember from earlier on that, surprisingly enough, the really beautiful "Coming Down Again" does not have so much appeal to you, whereas I may share your verdict on "All About You". The attraction of the latter to me, however, is not most of all its beauty, but the masterful way the song serves as a musical vehicle for expressing bitterness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-05 04:36 by Witness.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: October 5, 2018 04:29

dancing in the street was pretty good melody, try it.

when she goes to chiacago and don't' forget the motor city is stravinsky, compared to those horrible beatles who i hate.
....but alas, dancin' was great melody, but not a stones track,
as Mick wrote that when he was in Mott the Hoople with Marc Bolan, also a great melodist.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 5, 2018 09:05

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The litmus test on good melodies is often whether you can hum or whistle them (and hopefully they still sound good and recognisable).

We are not talking about how catchy the tunes are but how beautiful they are here...

- Doxa

We? I'm here, too smiling smiley

But you're right about melodic touches being dded to non-melodic songs.

But would it be as beautiful as songs with a melodic structure? Not in this context, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-05 09:08 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: October 5, 2018 09:11

I think most people know what a beautiful melody is; the selections here show that. Not catchy, not hummable, but esthetically lovely.

Great thread, by the way.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 5, 2018 10:21

Quote
Bliss
I think most people know what a beautiful melody is; the selections here show that. Not catchy, not hummable, but esthetically lovely.

Great thread, by the way.

My point was that many Stones tunes barely have a melody - they are way more percussive-driven. That goes for some of the selections here as well.

Play what Mick sings on various tunes on an instrument and you'll see...

Then we have the riffs and instruments adding melodic flavour to the songs. Those additions may be melodies (and beautiful too, of course).

I guess it's down to how we interpret the term melody. For me, it's all about the structure of the song and what it's based on. Its very core.

That doesn't mean one thing is more "right" than the other.

However, there is a reason why bands like The Beatles and The Beach Boys are regarded as melodic bands.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-05 10:32 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 5, 2018 10:34

Quote
Doxa
I don't want any "Beatles/Abba/-sing-a-long-quality", I don't think that's any criterion to do with the Stones melody beautiness. Take all those ballads like rubytuesdays, astearsgobys, ladyjanes, backstreetgirls etc. that pretty common stuff for any decent pop writers. The Stones melodical greatness lies in somewhere else, painted in blue. For me the melody and the whole atmosphere of "Winter" is one of the best things they - or anyone - ever have one (Yeah, Taylor's guitar has an distinctive role in it). The way the chorus goes, with all those little but genious note changes is simply unique. So beautiful. The same is with things like "Sway" or, as noted here, "Rocks Off": an incredibly genious, beautiful melody line for a pure simple rock song. Just play those things with piano, slow the tempo a bit, and you will hear the pure genious. "100 Years Ago", a bit more more flashy done with a bigger structure, but that's another too. There are many, many others as well. If we want more typical 'ballads', "All About You" is terrific, for example. "Waiting On A Friend", "Moonlight Mile", "Wild Horses"... even cheesy "Angie". All of those things have the unique blues-touch written in melody I admire on most beautiful Jagger/Richards tunes. The melody of "Sympathy For The Devil" is damn beautiful in its simplicity and distinctiviness as well. The list goes on (but most likely would cover most their mature but still fresh late-60's/early 70's material).

It could be that I understood the question wrong, if the thing is to estimate which Stones song sounds most like some easy-listening, conservative Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel or Abba evergreen. For me the beautifulness of the melody lies in somewhere else as far as the Stones are concerned.

- Doxa

Have you tried to play the "melody" in SFTD on the piano? smiling smiley

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 5, 2018 10:48

And to the guys who thought I was only talking about catchy tunes: No, I was merely talking about defined/refined melodies. More than two notes in play, in interesting ways smiling smiley

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: October 5, 2018 11:08

- Heaven

(Although Doxy has a point that with the Stones it's hard to separate the melody from the rest of the music, if that was his point).

Stones' most beautiful melody...
Posted by: DocChill ()
Date: October 5, 2018 12:57

Quote
matxil
"Heaven"
...for me too, love it smileys with beer!!!

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 5, 2018 14:15

A lot of good melodies are made great by the harmonies.

Keith's always had a sublime ear for a harmony vocal ...

[...probably has his choirboy days to thank for that.]

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 5, 2018 14:24

Quote
Witness
One objection only, Doxa, but a vital one, now you are narrowing down the diversity of what Rolling Stones music may comprise with decency. The call in the opening post, however, was for songs that are described as "beautiful melodies". There are many, can I call it, idioms for that in the Rolling Stones canon. You seem to insist in excluding some of them. I am not embarassed by one of them more or less ( I would still say less) overlapping with a Beatles mode, but am attracted to them as well with their marked Stones characteristic difference. I am very surprised by your remark with a quite general aim that Beatles' songmaking was conservative, without qualification, then meaning all over. (I have never been attracted to Simon & Garfunkel, and I see no relationship there. The German Decca compilation box THE BEST OF THE REST has got a track, where the Stones are joyfully and shamelessly playing around with the Ronettes song " Be My Baby". I guess that you hardly can like or even accept it, where I do).

Ì may be attracted to music out of different reasons. What I am often attracted to, is music that I myself find has got an emotional intensity in some way, even if I may by taste exclude much music that also does. For instance, "Indian Girl" that possibly for you are easy listening music, to me has that superb quality. The two songs I nominate in this thread, may for some listeners be heard as easy listening. That is not the reason for their appeal to me.

By the way, apparently within your boundaries, there is one beautiful Keith sung song, not mentionned, I think. I seem to remember from earlier on that, surprisingly enough, the really beautiful "Coming Down Again" does not have so much appeal to you, whereas I may share your verdict on "All About You". The attraction of the latter to me, however, is not most of all its beauty, but the masterful way the song serves as a musical vehicle for expressing bitterness.

Thanks, good points. I need to clarify myself that I didn't mean to say all those rubytuesdays, ladyjanes, astearsgobys etc. were bad or that I disqualify them or something. Absolutely not! They all are great, beautifully written songs, and I like each of them very much. Like I do of many The Beatles, Abba or Simon & Garfunkel songs (but not so much as I do of the mentioned Stones songs). And I do accept the argument that it is that kind of more traditionally written songs one can whistle the catchy melody easily, are the ones belonging to the category of "beautiful melodies". But I was attracted to the word "most" here - while Jagger/Richards are able to write some damn beautiful melodies in that mentioned sense, I think their true uniqueness and strength - and the one which attracts me most - is their more idiosyncratic way to handle the melody in 'odd' contexts, such as in bluesy rockers. For example, I think "Sway" and "Rocks Off" and, say, "Soul Survivor" are masterpieces in this sense. I don't think anyone can do better than they do that, inwheras one could easily argue that writers like Lennon/McCartney or Paul Simon or the Abba guys are able to do a better work in that more traditional catchy melody field, think of things like "Yesterday", "The Winner Takes It All" or "The Boxer" (although I agree with you that the Stones ballads and melodically catchy tunes have a kind of 'Stonesy' idiosyncratic character in them). Plus Jagger/Richards have that "bluesy" feel in the their style of writing melodies they had learned by the time of making BEGGARS BANQUET, many of the songs being damn simple structurally. The 'less is more' philosophy there. They are bluesmen by heart. To me that sounds beautiful and clever melodically (although I am sure many in music world would oppose me here).

By the way, I belong to a small group of people who actually likes "Indian Girl" very much. As I do of "Coming Down Again". "Bye Bye Baby" is a fantastic song!

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-05 14:29 by Doxa.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 5, 2018 14:33

"Angie" is a great love song. IMO one of the greatest in the pop era. Again - so much of the beauty of the melody is the combination of the lyrics and the delivery by Mick Jagger.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 5, 2018 14:38

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Have you tried to play the "melody" in SFTD on the piano? smiling smiley

Not, but with church organ. Sounded brilliant!grinning smiley

- Doxa

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: GetYerAngie ()
Date: October 5, 2018 14:53

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
"Angie" is a great love song. IMO one of the greatest in the pop era. Again - so much of the beauty of the melody is the combination of the lyrics and the delivery by Mick Jagger.

thumbs up

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 5, 2018 14:55

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Doxa
I don't want any "Beatles/Abba/-sing-a-long-quality", I don't think that's any criterion to do with the Stones melody beautiness. Take all those ballads like rubytuesdays, astearsgobys, ladyjanes, backstreetgirls etc. that pretty common stuff for any decent pop writers. The Stones melodical greatness lies in somewhere else, painted in blue. For me the melody and the whole atmosphere of "Winter" is one of the best things they - or anyone - ever have one (Yeah, Taylor's guitar has an distinctive role in it). The way the chorus goes, with all those little but genious note changes is simply unique. So beautiful. The same is with things like "Sway" or, as noted here, "Rocks Off": an incredibly genious, beautiful melody line for a pure simple rock song. Just play those things with piano, slow the tempo a bit, and you will hear the pure genious. "100 Years Ago", a bit more more flashy done with a bigger structure, but that's another too. There are many, many others as well. If we want more typical 'ballads', "All About You" is terrific, for example. "Waiting On A Friend", "Moonlight Mile", "Wild Horses"... even cheesy "Angie". All of those things have the unique blues-touch written in melody I admire on most beautiful Jagger/Richards tunes. The melody of "Sympathy For The Devil" is damn beautiful in its simplicity and distinctiviness as well. The list goes on (but most likely would cover most their mature but still fresh late-60's/early 70's material).

It could be that I understood the question wrong, if the thing is to estimate which Stones song sounds most like some easy-listening, conservative Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel or Abba evergreen. For me the beautifulness of the melody lies in somewhere else as far as the Stones are concerned.

- Doxa

Have you tried to play the "melody" in SFTD on the piano? smiling smiley

I'm pretty sure I understand what Dandy is saying here, and I very much agree with him. No one says a great melody has to be made up by a zillion notes, in order to be good. Two notes can be jst fine. But many of the Stones melodies are percussive type grooves; chants even.
Playing the melody to SFTD on a piano sounds pretty dull. The greatness of SFTD is the fusion of a bunch of fantastic ingredients.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: October 5, 2018 15:04

Quote
Doxa
Quote
Witness
.

Thanks, good points. I need to clarify myself that I didn't mean to say all those rubytuesdays, ladyjanes, astearsgobys etc. were bad or that I disqualify them or something. Absolutely not! They all are great, beautifully written songs, and I like each of them very much. Like I do of many The Beatles, Abba or Simon & Garfunkel songs (but not so much as I do of the mentioned Stones songs). And I do accept the argument that it is that kind of more traditionally written songs one can whistle the catchy melody easily, are the ones belonging to the category of "beautiful melodies". But I was attracted to the word "most" here - while Jagger/Richards are able to write some damn beautiful melodies in that mentioned sense, I think their true uniqueness and strength - and the one which attracts me most - is their more idiosyncratic way to handle the melody in 'odd' contexts, such as in bluesy rockers. For example, I think "Sway" and "Rocks Off" and, say, "Soul Survivor" are masterpieces in this sense. I don't think anyone can do better than they do that, inwheras one could easily argue that writers like Lennon/McCartney or Paul Simon or the Abba guys are able to do a better work in that more traditional catchy melody field, think of things like "Yesterday", "The Winner Takes It All" or "The Boxer" (although I agree with you that the Stones ballads and melodically catchy tunes have a kind of 'Stonesy' idiosyncratic character in them). Plus Jagger/Richards have that "bluesy" feel in the their style of writing melodies they had learned by the time of making BEGGARS BANQUET, many of the songs being damn simple structurally. The 'less is more' philosophy there. They are bluesmen by heart. To me that sounds beautiful and clever melodically (although I am sure many in music world would oppose me here).

By the way, I belong to a small group of people who actually likes "Indian Girl" very much. As I do of "Coming Down Again". "Bye Bye Baby" is a fantastic song!

- Doxa

Thank you for your answer, Doxa. Thereby much of my disagreement is done away with, but one aspect survives. I find a special attraction in the peculiarity that the Stones were able to create songs, that are great, also in a more ordinary way. Also in the fact that the band in that respect went through a phase when they did that. For me something of their greatness belongs to their development in so many phases. That is my outlook on them, as I am one of those who don't consider the Rolling Stones as band with one genuine golden age only, but rather as having had as many as four golden periods.

Later edit: Addition of the words "that are great"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-05 16:01 by Witness.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 5, 2018 15:45

A large part of their greatness is just the glorious noise they make.

It can make almost any song sound great .

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: October 5, 2018 18:59

Ruby Tuesday

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: matatu ()
Date: October 5, 2018 19:14

She's A Rainbow
Sittin' On A Fence

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: October 5, 2018 20:36

Quote
WorriedAboutYou
Backstreet Girl.

I like it! Thinking of Gotta Get Away too

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: jeanmarie ()
Date: October 5, 2018 21:51

the first album (not the first I bought ) I was looking forward to be release was Black & Blue
I was a kind of dissapointed BUT !! on the album :

Memory Motel

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: jp.M ()
Date: October 5, 2018 23:23

... Back street girl.....

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: October 6, 2018 00:48

Quote
jp.M
... Back street girl.....

I don’t like it. It’s a tough time for the gals
lately, don’t want anymore negativity.
Some songs the lyrics ruin it for me.
Some songs don’t bode with modern times for me,
another example was the RS cover of Howlin’ Wolf’s ‘Commit A Crime’
I didn’t want to hear Mick singing about his drinks being poisoned/ messed with
We can thank Bill Cosby for ruining that one.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: October 6, 2018 05:36

Tell Me
— believe it or not, one of the Stones’ biggest hits in Japan, and many old timers have fond memories of this song.

Ruby Tuesday
— also a hit in Japan and a usual suspect on this thread.

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: runrudolph ()
Date: October 6, 2018 10:18

This is difficult.

Memory motel
Hoodoo guru
Cant you hear
Moonlight mile
Fool to cry
Winter
Hide your love
As tears go by
Backstreet girl
Down in the hole

God i can go on forever.
Jeroen

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Date: October 6, 2018 11:20

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman


Have you tried to play the "melody" in SFTD on the piano? smiling smiley

Not, but with church organ. Sounded brilliant!grinning smiley

- Doxa

Potential b-side for the 60th ultrasuperdeluxe-edition? winking smiley

Re: What is the Stones most beautiful melody?
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: October 6, 2018 12:14

Quote
35love
Quote
jp.M
... Back street girl.....

I don’t like it. It’s a tough time for the gals
lately, don’t want anymore negativity.
Some songs the lyrics ruin it for me.
Some songs don’t bode with modern times for me,
another example was the RS cover of Howlin’ Wolf’s ‘Commit A Crime’
I didn’t want to hear Mick singing about his drinks being poisoned/ messed with
We can thank Bill Cosby for ruining that one.

The question is whether the I-person's attitude in "Back Street Girl" is the attitude of the lyrics, or whether the lyrics rather put at display an outlet for a prevailing attitude towards sex outside marriage in established society at the time, in some contrast to their own more rebellious attitude towards the society's contemporary norms about sex. Because, where does the indirect sympathy lie in that song, with the visitor or with the girl?

If you follow the mentionned approach in your reception to Rolling Stones songs, maybe the lyrics of and their presentation of "Midnight Rambler" could be more thoughtprovoking. Strictly speaking, what is flirted with?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-06 12:15 by Witness.

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