Songwriters: Michael Philip Jagger / Matthew Robert Clifford
Gotta Get A Grip lyrics © BMG Rights Management


The world is upside down
Everybody lunatics and clowns
No one speaks the truth
And madhouse runs the town
But you gotta get a grip
Beat it with a stick
Everybody's stuffing their pockets
Everybody's on the take
The news is all fake
Let 'em eat chicken and let 'em eat steak
Let 'em eat shit, let 'em eat cake
We gotta get a grip
We gotta get a grip
You gotta keep it zipped
And shoot 'em from the hip
Chaos, crisis, instability, ISIS
Lies and scandals, wars and vandals
Metadata scams and policy shams
Put 'em in a slammer
Come on!
Gotta get a
Gotta get a
Beat 'em with a stick
Gotta get a
Gotta get a
Gotta get a
Gotta get a grip
I tried diversion and I tried coercion
Mediation and medication
LA culture and aquapuncture
Overeating and sex in meetings
Induced insanity, Christianity
Long walks and fast drives
And wild clubs and low dives
I pushed and I strived
But I can't get you, can't get you can't get you out of my mind
Gotta get a grip
Gotta get a
Gotta get a
Beat 'em with a stick
Gotta get a grip
Gotta get a
Gotta get a
Immigrants are pouring in
Refugees under your skin
Keep 'em under, keep 'em out
Intellectual, shut your mouth
Beat 'em with a stick
Oh yeah
Gotta get a grip

As I've posted before, I saw the Stones cut the basic track for Flip the Switch at Ocean Way. They were all jamming on it for some hours -- Keith and Ronnie on guitar, Jagger on harp and Charlie on drums. No bass player. Don was in the control room. They sounded great. Eventually the edited the very long track and Mick presumably wrote the lyrics. Therein lay its failure to reach excellence.

Quote
TeddyB1018
As I've posted before, I saw the Stones cut the basic track for Flip the Switch at Ocean Way. They were all jamming on it for some hours -- Keith and Ronnie on guitar, Jagger on harp and Charlie on drums. No bass player. Don was in the control room. They sounded great. Eventually the edited the very long track and Mick presumably wrote the lyrics. Therein lay its failure to reach excellence.

You think it ‘failed’ because
of the lyrics? Or maybe you meant the editing.
Thank you for sharing the story.
They do seem clever (the lyrics) like Mick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-01 01:47 by 35love.

I love the song and enjoy the lyrics:

"Lethal injections a luxury / I want to give it to the whole jury / I'm just dying for one more squeeze"

"I'm not gonna burn in Hell / I've cased the joint and I know it well"

"What will it take to bury me? / I can't wait, I can't wait to see."

Personally, I think at least some of those are Keith lyrics, but the line blurs between them at times.

And though I'm not the biggest Jane Rose fan by any means, I do believe it was stated her insistence on Keith not using Ronnie in The Winos was that it would create a "gray area" between the Stones and would prove an obstacle to a potential Stones reunion. I believe she was correct, too. That aside, I agree with Lem that it damaged Ronnie's friendship with Keith and they lost their telepathy as players in a band.

I realize times have changed since then, but Mick used Ronnie and Charlie on Getta Grip/England Lost.
No grey area there due to the mediocrity of the tune - in other words no one was fooled into thinking it was the Stones (how could it be without Keith?).
And no obstacle towards future endeavors that we know of, but maybe it threw the wrench back into the new album process hence the lack of progress.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The whole mess goes back to The New Barbarians. Mick's remarks about the Barbarians when SHE'S THE BOSS came out (claiming he was surprised Keith made a fuss since he had done the whole Barbarians thing) and Stu's interview with Bill German in 1981 where he mentions Charlie would have been happy to have been part of the Barbarians if it hadn't turned into such bullshit suggest the idea of a Ronnie and Keith tour was perceived as if not a threat than at least a violation of an unwritten rule. Somewhere in that time, Mick also made a derogatory remark about "Run, Rudolph, Run" in a mocking tone. It's probably important to consider their egos and how competitive they are with one another as much as with other artists to understand it.

Whether or not Keith was irritated by Ronnie and Charlie working with Mick last year or not, he certainly wasn't going to say so to the media. It's also a different situation today than we had in the mid-1980s where Ronnie working with Keith would be perceived as a defection since the band were on hiatus at the time and for a bit, it looked like it would be a longer stretch than it really was before they reunited.

Good points here about Ronnie between Mick and Keith, and I also agree with Lem that the Winos project did some serious damage to Ronnie and Keith relationship - some of the chemistry was surely gone, and The Rolling Stones sound was no any longer the same since 1989 (surely there were other factors as well, but that was one of the essentials).

Altogether I think the whole "WW3" did most damage to Ronnie (or, to be more precise, in Ronnie's substantive role in the band). After that he was somehow transported more far from the real inner circle. Before that he had much bigger contribution to the creative processes - not just in terms of offering his own very songs, but heavily having a helping hand for either MIck or Keith (or both). He was very influential to the way SOME GIRLS sounded (being, among other things, Mick's guitar mentor...). In UNDERCOVER he made a heavy colloboration with Mick, in DIRTY WORK with Keith.

My theory is that being so close to the Twins - wandering within that infamous 'grey area' - that it actually cost Ronnie his essential role in creative processes. He became a sort of a pawn for Mick and Keith in their ego games and power struggles, and when the 'peace' was finally settled, they decided that Ronnie doesn't belong to neither's 'court'. He is 'out'. We need to notice that Mick, Keith & Ronnie triangle goes way back - to the days he wasn't even a band member. Ronnie get to know both of the Twins separately - for the surprise of the other! Mick was writing with Ronnie, and the rumors say that he was thinking him not just a replacement for Taylor, but even before that, a replacement for Keith if the things would go really bad. And one day Mick found out that Keith was living in Ronnie's garden and the two guys were like brothers... Add there later the mentioned Barbarians tour, which, also according to Wyman, made Jagger non-easy about, or like Keith claims, if he hadn't guaranteed Ronnie, Jagger would have kicked him out during 1981/82 tours, etc.

Ronnie, for sure, takes the credit for being a peacemaker, being that 'middle man' making Mick and Keith communicate again, and it surely has some truth, no doubt, but I don't think Ronnie's decisive role was that one in making the peace..

For a listener's ears, the result is that from 1989 on, the traditionally important third member in the band - be it Brian, Taylor, or Ronnie - hasn't has such an important role for the Stones sound. From then on it has been purely a Mick and/or Keith show, two courts band.

Good old IORR speculation, nothing else...

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-01 12:37 by Doxa.

Good points, Doxa.

Another aspect might be that the touring band grew bigger, as they wanted to present a big show in the huge stadiums. The rather unpredictable guitar approach of Ronnie and Keith's might have been scrapped because of that.

I have played a couple of shows in a big band (15-20 people on stage). The usual routine is strict arranging, with the same guitar lines at the same spots in the songs.

I believe Ronnie was told to play like that because of the show they wanted to present. That way of working might have been taken to the studio as well..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-01 12:55 by DandelionPowderman.

Yeah, Dandie, that's very true, but although live concerts is the place in where we can most clearly notice the lack of certain chemistry (between Keith and Ronnie), I also considered in my post Ronnie's role in making the music (recordings) as well. Of course, we could also say that the way the Stones record has changed from 1989 on, and there was no any longer room or even need for Ronnie's heavy contributions from the very start of the process. Mick has his own people, and Keith his own, Ronnie belonging neither of them.

As far as "Gotta Get A Grip/"London Lost" go, my picture has been that Charlie and Ronnie were there recording Stones tracks, but when Keith vetoed, Jagger released that under his own name (as Keith half-jokingly had asked him to do...). It could be that I am totally wrong here.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, Dandie, that's very true, but although live concerts is the place in where we can most clearly notice the lack of certain chemistry (between Keith and Ronnie), I also considered in my post Ronnie's role in making the music (recordings) as well. Of course, we could also say that the way the Stones record has changed from 1989 on, and there was no any longer room or even need for Ronnie's heavy contributions from the very start of the process. Mick has his own people, and Keith his own, Ronnie belonging neither of them.

As far as "Gotta Get A Grip/"London Lost" go, my picture has been that Charlie and Ronnie were there recording Stones tracks, but when Keith vetoed, Jagger released that under his own name (as Keith half-jokingly had asked him to do...). It could be that I am totally wrong here.

- Doxa

Yeah, because this happened AFTER 1989. For the SW sessions Ronnie really put his stamp on the sound. Hearing him wail away on the bass on Break The Spell reminded me of ER.

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DandelionPowderman



Yeah, because this happened AFTER 1989. For the SW sessions Ronnie really put his stamp on the sound. Hearing him wail away on the bass on Break The Spell reminded me of ER.

Hmm.. you could be right, but to me STEEL WHEELS starts to sound like Ronnie being a hired gun adding his bit when the songs are already rather finished deals creatively. My picture of making STEEL WHEELS is that it is a sort of buddy-buddy album - the big boys came up with the songs (deriving from writing together or from their solo doings or from whatever Ronnie wasn't involved) and then presented them to the others, and then the whole band recorded them rather quickly (for their prior standards). At least to my ears DIRTY WORK, no matter how mediocre album it is, is still rather strong and organic album guitarwise, Ronnie being extremely influental there, and heavily involved from the scratch.

It also could be that the Stones were intentionally starting - or naturally developing - to do things differently and, once again, update their sound to fit the 'recent currents'. For whatever reason by the time of STEEL WHEELS the Pathe Marconi era 'weave' started to a thing of the past. But to my ears, and this is just a personal opinion, STEEL WHEELS is the first album (for some to come) in which the guitars started to sound too separated, too isolated, too 'normal' and predictable and non-organic compared to their previous doings of the last 20 years or so. Altogether the production ideal started to be like each having a certain fixed little, isolated space into which and within which to add his contribution, inwheras in the past they had this more collective and organic wall of sound within which they interacted. This new ideal offered a room for their modern 'retro' sound - these spaces were filled with easily recognizable Stonesy elements (Keith's Open G riffs, Ronnie's trademark slide things, Charlie's over-emphasized drums, etc.) - so that even the foolest could hear that 'yeah, that is the Stones'. BUt to my spoiled ears the result was not that exciting and magic-like irrestible like in the good ole days... I think VOODOO LOUNGE is a great manifestation of this policy.

Anyway, I think the result is that Ronnie's strenghts and abilities are not very well used from 1989 on (of those strengths I think THE most important one is the unique way he interacts with Keith, with which I think he put his true and original stamp on the history and sound of The Rolling Stones). Be that good or not, or non-avoidable, I don't know.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-01 17:09 by Doxa.

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gotdablouse
Well FTS does sound a little bit original...at first so that's always welcome. Unlike say fillers like "Too Tight", wow, can't believe I struggled for a sec to remember the title of a song on a Stones' album ! Oh and "Always Suffering" is complete filler too. The leftovers (that we have yet to hear) must have been really bad for stuff like that to be included...

As for DW, well I loved it at first, terrific guitars, the Stones' were rocking the house again, but well...it didn't really go anywhere, just some good old groove/booggy rock like they can produce in their sleep, Hang Fire, Neighbours (love Charlie's intro though), etc...

Already Suffering is complete crap. But you're bit there about the leftovers must have been really bad stuff - how do you explain Gunface and Might As Well Get Juiced being on the album!?

BTB is a bipolar LP. As the years have gone by I've gotten to the point that I only listen to Keith's songs, Flip The Switch and Lowdown. Saint Of Me was only a big deal because of how it was recorded, which sounds no different than if they had just done it live. Out Of Control is a decent snore. Anybody Seen My Baby is ridiculously trying. Too Tight, although a decent rocking tune, is 'Let's do a Stones song that sounds like the Stones'.

Yet... it's still better than VOODOO LOUNGE.

Another factor that impacted STEEL WHEELS album and tour was that Mick wanted a lead guitar and did not want to continue the "ancient art of weaving" rhythm guitars on every track. This starts with "Winning Ugly" on DIRTY WORK where Keith's "new" role (mirroring Jeff Beck's place on the two Mick albums that sandwich DIRTY WORK). You even hear it on "Cant' Be Seen" as Keith settles into something approximating a lead guitarist role. On the STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE tour, the most noticable place was "Sympathy for the Devil" where Keith, rather than Ronnie, now handled the solo and has ever since - and rarely effectively.

Of course, a major factor in this change in guitar roles was keyboards were now rooted more in the rhythm section rather than added as additional colour. That begins with Chuck's role in the UNDERCOVER sessions, but it grows substantially once Matt Clifford is in place to arrange the songs musically and (along with Bernard) vocally for STEEL WHEELS. The blue print for this is the twin keyboard approach on PRIMITVE COOL and the subsequent tours of Japan and Down Under.

While STEEL WHEELS still sounds like the Stones, it was built in a very different fashion and that has remained consistent on subsequent studio sessions. Some of those results are gorgeous, the backing vocals on "Slipping AWay" and some of Clifford's orchestration allowed for amazing integration of percussion on "Continental Drift" and "Terrifying" that are so far beyond what Sly Dunbar was capable of bringing to UNDERCOVER using early '80s technology. From that perspective, you can see STEEL WHEELS as representing the successful realization of some of the "fresh" ideas brought to UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK that didn't quite work. Ronnie had no creative place in arranging this material. He was reduced to a session man in many ways. Bill also has no chance to shine on STEEL WHEELS. They could almost be anyone else to the degree that Mick and Keith quickly viewed them as replaceable.

VOODOO LOUNGE, in many ways, represents bringing the Winos sound to bear upon the Stones. The main exceptions are "New Faces," "Out of Tears," "I Go Wild," and "Blinded by Rainbows" which seem built more to match WANDERING SPIRIT and incorporate ideas Mick picked up from Jimmy Rip's arrangements and Rick Rubin's production. This is not to diminish tangible evidence of Don Was' hand throughout the sessions as his signature '90s sound (that he brought to Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, and Brian Wilson) is very much present. Yet it's the Winos signature of blaring guitars, even louder drums (with near identical opening drum beats before guitars drop in) and, most importantly, tribal backing vocals that distinguish most of the songs.

Since Mick and Keith had formed distinct identities and working habits by this point, it is clear VOODOO LOUNGE was an attempt to meld those identities into a Stones album without compromise. Again, Ronnie has no real role in the arrangements. This time he wasn't even present in Barbados as the ground work was laid down by Mick, Keith, Chuck, and Don with Charlie.

BRIDGES TO BABYLON can then be seen as the natural extension of Mick and Keith's approach to VOODOO LOUNGE and not the jarring difference it initially seemed. The presence of so many bass players and Ronnie's absence for much of the sessions because of a necessary rehab stint led to his temporary replacement by Waddy Wachtel from the Winos only added to the sense (however unfair it may be) that the album is a compilation of Mick and Keith solo tracks. Both Jagger and Richards wanted something different and achieved it with a mix of roots and pop approaches to their familiar sound with an unprecedented use of sidemen. The backing vocals hover between the tribal feel of VOODOO LOUNGE and something closer to jazz sensibilities that Bernard and Blondie brought to their arrangements. Ronnie's role seems closer to a sponge job in the resulting album than ever before.

After that, Clifford's role grows with GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY but everything that I valued about him with STEEL WHEELS (and even his limited contribution to WANDERING SPIRIT) is gone. It's impossible to tell, without hearing his demos, how much of what I do like on the album ("Hideaway" and "Too Far Gone", primarily) is down to his contributions. It is clear the creative use of percussion and effective use of backing vocal arrangements are absent and there is certainly too much bad synth work and amateurish programming. I have blasted Clifford since then for seeming like a hack. It does appear he is two different people, but it could be he is directed by Mick to "create" bass lines, drum programs, and "fake" guitar parts while the songs are developed quickly without the previous care. As a Stones fan, it is easy to blame the sideman. It is likely the problem is rooted in Mick being content with quick sketches rather than producing portraits as he used to do.

Certainly, the "just overdub here" approach to FORTY LICKS and, to a certain extent A BIGGER BANG and "Doom and Gloom" (and likely on Mick's solo tracks last year) are reflective of this approach. The piecemeal recording method followed on the EXILE and SOME GIRLS Deluxe Editons new recordings as well as "Watching the River Flow" for BOOGIE FOR STU were also detrimental with overall results that sound, at worst, like an animated corpse and, at best, like a clever forgery of a band. So my long-winded premise here is that Ronnie's role disappeared as he became faceless to Mick and Keith just as the band itself became a function of the Mick and Keith super-egos who were Twins in name only though they still sometimes glimmer.

I read this book:
‘New Barbarians: Outlaws, Gunslingers, and Guitars’
and the problem with Keith and Ronnie on stage without Mick at that time
was the audiences, thinking and yelling MICK, is MICK gonna show up and sing?
It was a real issue.

interesting reads, this thread. Really stuff to learn and know more..Good. I cant really put it into words, as my former posters have done.
To me, the Real Danger, Darkness, Image of Sex, whatever you may call it of what Stones Music was..it stopped with the Steel Wheels Album.and with the subsequent SW Tour.

This said, i still love the Stones immensely, the outtakes and the Tours.
loved the 2017/2018 No Filter Gigs, saw 7.

Please give us some more of your insights, its a good read and very welcome.

One Love
Jeroen

No more from me. I spent way too long collecting thoughts that Doxa, Dandy, and Gaslight put far more succinctly.

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Rocky Dijon
VOODOO LOUNGE, in many ways, represents bringing the Winos sound to bear upon the Stones. The main exceptions are "New Faces," "Out of Tears," "I Go Wild," and "Blinded by Rainbows" which seem built more to match WANDERING SPIRIT and incorporate ideas Mick picked up from Jimmy Rip's arrangements and Rick Rubin's production. This is not to diminish tangible evidence of Don Was' hand throughout the sessions as his signature '90s sound (that he brought to Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, and Brian Wilson) is very much present. Yet it's the Winos signature of blaring guitars, even louder drums (with near identical opening drum beats before guitars drop in) and, most importantly, tribal backing vocals that distinguish most of the songs.

Since Mick and Keith had formed distinct identities and working habits by this point, it is clear VOODOO LOUNGE was an attempt to meld those identities into a Stones album without compromise. Again, Ronnie has no real role in the arrangements. This time he wasn't even present in Barbados as the ground work was laid down by Mick, Keith, Chuck, and Don with Charlie.

Don Smith recorded and mixed Keith's 2 albums so it makes sense that VL sounds similar, especially to MAIN OFFENDER, since Don Smith recorded and mixed VL.

The only song Ronnie really shines on, to me anyway, is Out Of Tears.

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Rocky Dijon
No more from me. I spent way too long collecting thoughts that Doxa, Dandy, and Gaslight put far more succinctly.

I love your timeline posts, though, like that SW/VL/BTB/onward bit. Always great to read. And, bizarrely, always something new to find out.

I don’t know, I get confused in minute details
but I pulled out my book
‘New Barbarians’ Rob Chapman
pages 124 on
have Ronnie, Bobby Keys quotes/ on record
(I will now surmise)
NEED A LEAD SINGER

Wow, truely impressed by Rocky Dijon's narrative (not that reading such a thing from him is no way any surprise). Yeah, lots of new information there, and, fortunately, not in a drastic contradiction with my sketches...

I think Rocky's story nicely tells how the natural musical development actually happened from the 'weave' days to a rather current state. It was also that kind of room I left open with my reference "among other things" and "updating their sound to fit to recent currents", etc. When I above talked about MIck and Keith making this 'deal' in 1989, which costed Ronnie's influental and substantive place in the very core of the band, I also thought, without saying it, that artistically speaking that already was a point when Ronnie had became a rather, to use Rocky's term, "faceless player" for Jagger. Roughly speaking, the time MIck 'needed' Ronnie, or get from him what he wanted, had gone. He had new, more suitable people by then.

BUt with Keith that seems to be a different, or more complicated issue. How that bond - so tight and natural - broke? I think the best answer is already written here in this thread, and pretty much to do with Jane Rose. And also, with that, that of Keith's own ego and awereness of own status, had developed to a new level. The 'guitar hero' role, and a second front man, more than of team player and a 'true, but rather invisible band leader weaving with a rather democratic manner with that other guitarist ' was probably a quite tempting one, which Mick supposedly offered for him in a new Rolling Stones incarnation. Especially with the money Cohl promised to them.

So this to say in regards to my 'Ronnie's a pawn in their power game" theory is that for neither of them it wasn't such a big issue any longer to 'sacrifice' that pawn (not even for Keith as I once believed). Or it could be that by 1989, no 'deal' in regards to Ronnie was needed at all (metaphorically or literally) - his old role had vanished by then by 'natural development' of Mick and Keith. Which is to say my theory is simply false.

Anyway, if we get a pure Darwinian view here, one could say that probably Ronnie had his time with these two guys, which produced some incredible and unique music - one great chapter in the Stones book (the last one of the Part One having three chapters) - but it came and went, and the guys move on.

But of course, it is just a question of some die-hard Rolling Stones nerds here making this any kind of issue - I am sure Ronnie still feels, especially having that full membership of the band (was it 1993?) that he still is and has always been the luckiest guy in the world being so close to those two guys... Playing some guitar here and there (in the greatest rock and roll band in the world, huh..) with some posing and making sure to keep the rock star look isn't such a miserable job...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-01 19:17 by Doxa.

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Rocky Dijon
No more from me. I spent way too long collecting thoughts that Doxa, Dandy, and Gaslight put far more succinctly.

No, please.
Your thoughts have been and are brilliant.
Please, more, more.
Jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-01 20:25 by corriecas.

I'm not leaving the board, Jeroen, just spent on this topic. While it's always nice to be complimented on your writing, it's important to remember they're just my thoughts and my conclusions could be completely off or slightly askew. Add to the fact that if a true friend or family member - not a fan or someone in the media - asked these questions of Mick, Keith, Ronnie, Matt, Don Was, etc. they would end up with as many different perspectives on what went down and why. It's just the nature of the beast.

Seems to me it’s all hindsight of perceived Machiavellin plots and well thought out chess moves,
LOL
when I read Ronnie Woods biography written in 2007 about these years,
and personally the 80’s were the same for me
it was serious drink and stuff that keeps you awake to drink longer
or maybe in Mr Watts admission heroin addiction
and trying to get by in the meanwhile
seems Mick was settled down with Jerry Hall having a wonderful English family

I do not think Jane Rose plots and thieves and controls.
I would guess yes she is very powerful ally and business component no doubt
I would venture to say she presents Keith with factual information, may give her personal opinion,
but Keith decides. (or probably Patti, lol)

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-02 06:27 by Stoneage.