I have heard Mick could be referring to;

1)Jimi Hendrix
2)Jim Morrison - The Stones and the Doors were using the same studio at the sametime in London - and apparently the Stones were taking up more studio time so Morrison came up with the line "You can't always get what you want"
3) No one in particular

I thought it was about their producer at the time, Jimmy Miller.

To the best of my knowledge, there are 2 theories as to the identity of "Mr. Jimmy,"

It could be a reference to Jimmy Miller, but it might also refer to Jimmy Hutmaker, a local character that wanders the business district in Excelsior, Minnesota, a trendy artist community outside Minneapolis near Lake Minnetonka. Hutmaker, who is known as "Mr. Jimmy," has some disabilities but seems mentally sharp most days, although he tends to talk to himself a lot. He walks miles every day and is cared for by the local shop owners, whom he still visits on a regular basis (he turned 72 in 2004).
The Stones performed in Excelsior on their first US tour, and were not well received. Mick Jagger went into a local drugstore to get a Cherry Coke. Back then a cherry coke was a coke with real cherries in it and drug store soda fountains were the place you usually found them. The store didn't have cherry cokes and Mr. Jimmy, standing in line behind Jagger, commented, "Well, you can't always get what you want." Mr. Jimmy was at the Stones next show in Minneapolis. Legend has it that Jagger sent a limo to pick him up, but it is more likely that a local businessman worked it out so he could go.

I've heard this story from people I know in Minneapolis who know the dude. Of course that don't make it true and it doesn't mean that Mr Jimmy is Hutmaker, but it sure helps me believe it's true. The drugstore and it's lunch counter is something of a shrine to Mr. Jimmy. I was asked if I wanted to visit it, but declined because I didn't have the time.

camper88's quotation is very incomplete, missing out some important facts, the full "explanation" goes like this and of course both theories are BS:

There are 2 theories as to the identity of "Mr. Jimmy," who appears in the third verse. It could be a reference to Jimmy Miller, who was The Stones' producer at the time, but it might also refer to Jimmy Hutmaker, a local character that wanders the business district in Excelsior, Minnesota, a trendy artist community outside Minneapolis near Lake Minnetonka. Hutmaker, who is known as "Mr. Jimmy," has some disabilities but seems mentally sharp most days, although he tends to talk to himself a lot. He walks miles every day and is cared for by the local shop owners, whom he still visits on a regular basis (he turned 72 in 2004).
The Stones performed in Excelsior on their first US tour in 2004, and were not well received. Mick Jagger went into a local drugstore to get a Cherry Coke. Back then a cherry coke was a coke with real cherries in it and drug store soda fountains were the place you usually found them. The store didn't have cherry cokes and Mr. Jimmy, standing in line behind Jagger, commented, "Well, you can't always get what you want." Mr. Jimmy was at the Stones next show in Minneapolis. Legend has it that Jagger sent a limo to pick him up, but it is more likely that a local businessman worked it out so he could go. (thanks, Chris Hall - Athens, GA, and the good people at the Excelsior chamber of commerce)

The source is [64.233.183.104]

... unfortuantely Songfacts is everything but reliable.

I've been told this songfacts fact by people I worked with there who know the dude and the place in Minnetonka. It came up in casual conversation when I was there and they were quite insistent that I could meet the man and visit the place. They were very sincere about it, and they're pretty humble folk and not into telling tales.

Does that make it true? No. On the other hand I've no reason to disbelieve them.

By the way, I posted the songfacts source/ quote about a week ago, do a search and you'll find it. (its in the Gazza go to bed thread).

> ... unfortuantely Songfacts is everything but
> reliable.

It seems a very plausible story, but they have they Stones play in Excelsior in 2004. That should of course be in 1964 on their first US tour.

Koen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ... unfortuantely Songfacts is everything
> but
> > reliable.
>
> It seems a very plausible story, but they have
> they Stones play in Excelsior in 2004. That should
> of course be in 1964 on their first US tour.


Clearly it should be 1964, check my post and you'll see that's what I wrote:

>The Stones performed in Excelsior on their first US tour.

And that's the story I was told: MJ was despondent in Minnetonka.

The use of "2004" by songfacts is what's known to editors as transposition: my guess is that the editor/ writer got an (obvious) date wrong because he/ she was likely thinking about Hutmaker's latest birthday in 2004, which is also mentioned, hence the date of the tour was transposed.

Now, that doesn't make the story incorrect (or correct), and in fact it's a common editing problem with words and letters as well as dates. But it doesn't make the story wrong, at the basic level of who is Mr. Jimmy.

The only guarantor of meaning in this instance is MJ himself, and he's probably not talking.

Gazza might be able to help us with the question of when was the song written, not recorded, because if it's pre-Miller then that would lend credence to the Hutmaker version, some credence, but not an overwhelming amount.

James Phelge, who lived with Keith, Mick and Brian at Edith Grove in 62/63, believes he is Mr Jimmy, and he makes a pretty fair case for it in his book Nankering With the Stones. which is a great read, by the way - the cat had me weeping with laughter every two pages.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

I seem to recall an interview with Mick where he described the working process with Jimmy Miller. Something like they would play a demo, or run through a song with "Mr. Jimmy" and if he didn't think it had potential, he would say "Dead".

I can't remember where that is from, but in my mind it always settled the question of who Mr. Jimmy was.

Anybody remember the interview or article?

I have never seen any confirmation of the Hutmaker story,but seems unlikely to me that Jagger would remember such a meaningless encounter and that it would have such an impact that 4 years later he would document it in a song.

It did give Hutmaker his Andy Warhol 15 minutes!

Ross






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-26 21:05 by Ross.

It's James Phelge. With sssoul got it right.

reed johnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's James Phelge. With sssoul got it right.


And you know this how?

Ross

camper88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza might be able to help us with the question
> of when was the song written, not recorded,
> because if it's pre-Miller then that would lend
> credence to the Hutmaker version, some credence,
> but not an overwhelming amount.

Jimmy Miller became the Stones' producer in spring 1968.
"You can't always get what you want" was first recorded 16-17 November 1968.

I suppose Jimmy Miller is not "Mr. Jimmy" (even though Jimmy Miller eventually became a junkie around 1972). I think the connection is too obvious.

The Hutmaker story has its charm but well... is it really believable Jagger was in 1968 referring to an incident that took place in 1964?

Maybe Mr. Jimmy is just some character that isn't connected 1:1 to a real person. Like maybe Ruby Tuesday, Angie or the "you" in "All about you" - many people claim to be "the one" but in fact maybe these songs rather refer to characters, but to persons.

F.U.C. the Captain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The Hutmaker story has its charm but well... is it
> really believable Jagger was in 1968 referring to
> an incident that took place in 1964?
>

Yes, it really is believable. Some early version of the song may be much older than the recording or release dates. SMU is an obvious example of that, and most of Emotional Rescue. But don't misunderstand me, that doesn't make the account that I offer true. It just adds to the possibility.

> Maybe Mr. Jimmy is just some character that isn't
> connected 1:1 to a real person. Like maybe Ruby
> Tuesday, Angie or the "you" in "All about you" -
> many people claim to be "the one" but in fact
> maybe these songs rather refer to characters, but
> to persons.

I think you've hit on something really important here in this discussion. Trying to read too much of the writers' biographies into a song or novel, etc., is probably a rabbit hole we don't want to go down. Moreover, it's a reductive reading of the song that offers many various and rich interpretions that are equally valid (and I don't mean a valid Hutmaker interpretation in saying this).

The idea that makes this clear for me is that of the implied author that Wayne Booth is famous for: for any work there is

an author--The person or persons who wrote the material, including editors, producers, etc, those who affect the material production of the material to be read.

the implied author--a manifestation of readers' assumptions about the emotional and mental state, etc, of an author, things (that are largely irrecoverable even when the author insists on what something means) about the meaning and intent of an author regarding his or her work.

the characters--the voice and perspective of the character in the song, novel, etc.

the implied reader--a manifestation of the author and other readers about how it is people would read and receive the meaning of a book, based on assumptions on existing reading practices, as well as the most vocal readership or fan base

and the reader--The individual reading the material who may approach it with his or her unique cultural perspective.

Here we may be confusing the character who sings the song with the author, Jagger and Richards. Mr. Jimmy may only exist in the fictional landscape of this song and our own imaginations, no where else.

Of course, that still begs the question, who is Mr. Jimmy?

It's me!!

_____________________________________________________

What's your favourite flavour?...........Cherry Red!!

Dont have much to say about who Mr. Jimmy is but I can tell you that the Chelsea Drugstore is now a McDonalds. I took the London RocknRoll tour from the Hard Rock Cafe this past summer and went by the spot on Kings Road in Chelsea.

"Well I went do to the local Micky D's, to get my quarter pounder" just doesnt have the same effect.