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Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: April 22, 2018 01:58

One of the noteworthy things about Strange Days was the innovative production values.

While the Beatles were recording Sgt. Pepper on 4 tracks, Strange Days was done on 8 tracks.

Strange Days has a striking fullness and clarity compared to the debut.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 22, 2018 02:26

Quote
BJPortugal
LA Woman is highly praised, but it is my less favourite. Paul Rothschild, earlier producer of The Doors, called that "cocktail music".

He was referring specifically to the tune Riders on the Storm (and specifically the instrumentation only) in it's earliest form,
but the final result proves how wrong he was as it's one of the most haunting tunes ever recorded by any band.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: April 22, 2018 03:07

I cannot locate the video clip where producer Paul Rothchild gave an interview about the L.A. Woman sessions, but as I remember it he described the band in general as uninspired at the beginning of those sessions, so he just walked out leaving them in the hands of engineer Bruce Botnick. The shock of having their producer walk out on them appears to have woken them up, and they were then able to pull things together enough to complete the sessions and produce an album without Rothchild's help.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: April 22, 2018 03:40

Quote
Doxa
At the time - early 80's - I get to know The Doors they had a kind of cool image for certain hispsters of the day - the sort of a counter voice for or teh flip side of the happy, shining, over positive vibes of the mainstream at the time - the people dressed in black, going 'alternative' later and so on. The coolest chicks of the day would be found among those circles...grinning smiley

Speaking as someone from the U.S. who was turning 15 in 1981 and who had no idea of any "hipster/alternative" types of the period, the Doors here were accepted as part of the mainstream.

The End had been featured the hit movie Apocalypse Now in the late 70s; The Doors themselves had "returned" with the release of the album An American Prayer; the book No One Here Gets Out Alive had been published; and an album of Doors greatest hits had done well on the charts.

All this combined to make the Doors more popular, to sell more records, in 1981/1982 thereabouts than when they were active as a group. Their music was played regularly on mainstream rock FM radio just as though they were any other up and coming popular act.

But most of all, the mystique at that time concerned the question of what happened to Jim Morrison, that is, whether or not he was really dead.

Goings on those last days in Paris were still very much a mystery, and many rumors abounded -- the most popular of which that Jim had faked his death and fled to Africa.

One radio station network in 1983 even broadcast a speculative "press conference" where an actor playing Morrison explains to the media his reasons for faking his death and what his future plans for working with the Doors would consist of.

So that was it for many young fans in the early 80s -- that the Doors might not in fact be done and dusted, that Morrison might soon return, etc.

Even surviving members of the Doors themselves, like Ray Manzarek and Robbie Krieger especially, would often in radio interviews consider that Jim wasn't really dead and that if/when he decided to return to the States, they would indeed resume the Doors' career.

But, then, in the 1990s books appeared on the market where people involved in those final days in Paris revealed what had really happened, that he had indeed died because these people had seen the body, being held on ice in the scorching heat of the Paris apartment until arrangements for burial could be made.

That's when the "mystique" of the Doors died -- when it was finally certain that Jim Morrison had.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: April 22, 2018 04:28

Quote
noughties
Quote
Doxa
At the time - early 80's - I get to know The Doors they had a kind of cool image for certain hispsters of the day - the sort of a counter voice for or teh flip side of the happy, shining, over positive vibes of the mainstream at the time - the people dressed in black, going 'alternative' later and so on. The coolest chicks of the day would be found among those circles...grinning smiley

I recall reading in the leading magazine of that sort in Finland stating that 'of any big and revolutionary names of the 60's, the music of The Doors has survived the test of time best'. The coolness of The Velvet Underground was already noticed during the late 70's punk era, so by the 80's they started to be old news. I think the 1980 relaese of Hopkins/Sugarman biography NO ONE HERE GETS ALIVE (Finnish translation 1981) also had a huge role for positive Morrison reception at the time.

After that they were just another band from the classic era of rock - suitable nostalgia material for UNCUT and MOJO readers. I think The Doors have even strangely disappeared from the sight during the last two decades - or at least doesn't have any longer that special aura to stand-out from their contemporaries they once had. Probably the romantic image of Morrison of such a druggie genius poet hasn't actually dated so well, or being so 'cool' as it once was seen.

Me? I liked much the Doors back in the 80's, purchased all their records, but I need to admit: I have not listened to them much since then (so I guess I am one of those snobbish elitists of the 80's whose interest Oliver Stone and Val Kilmer killed haha... or, now to think of it, probably I haven't have a girl friend crazy for Jimbo since then who 'forces' me to listen them...winking smiley)

- Doxa

- Well, well, well, Ive read your stuff on The Doors before, Doxa. Fersure the band stroke a chord in the Finnish psyche, a Norwegian would think. I was too old for punk, so that didn`t introduce me to the band. As you have pointed out, you can`t milk this band forever. The coolness disappears. They were a short-lived band with only 6 studio albums. I think nobody cares about them today.

They are enromous in USA and still get reulgar play on FM stations that play any rock music at all, other than specialized channels like the 'stones' or '40's jazz' or 'whatever specialty'.....

Now I admit to a particular overload cause he's branded like a tourist attraction with huge murals the side of 8 stoy buildings or higher.
and there are more than one. so its kistchy kinda huge iconography,
usually supported by real estate agents and tourist-oriented business...
part of the nostalgic myth, now that's decades one, people flock, possibly
like the Liverpool tourist stuff that must be cheap and trading off the
nice experiences. My friends from the East Coast were tourists that loved visting whatever they did to The Cavern and had a great time.
Not real rockers; but what is that these days....?
aside from rare.

Doxa's perspective is so different from mine; but that might be because of when he heard the music in 80, i think he said?
for me, in '67, to compare the Beatles to Abba is not at all the way it felt in the states when that album was released. and when it was such a huge part of the culture forever more in Apocolypse Now film; which is hard to under-estimate as a powerful force, muddled passages and chaos while production or not; tho that makes the whole story ore fascinating n a way.

In truth, it's impossible to seperate The Doors from the 'counter-culture' movement generally. And those times.
No band sounded like that before. There was a distinction that was very apparent to me;

I think it comes from all those different stylistic disciplines coverging with those particular people; im other words; oe of those miracle real original things......not so obviously derivative as my favorties; who I go to exactly because they derive from the same kind of boogie things I love...The doors aren't a boogie band; and it's hard for me to stand up for them because i do not like their young fans who are more into the iconography and 'branding' by people Morrison would not have talked with....

Jim was the guy who would NOT roll his eyes and stare into the camera after all; he would just sing the song the way Robbie wrote it and they recorded it. He didn't even emphasize 'get much higher' like Val does in that silly movie the rest of The Doors bailed out of....

he didn't try like hell to keep an image going; he bust it on purpose;
like john tried to when he tried to get the most shit let it be sessions
released without production; hahha; gotta love john, 'i want everyone to know how shit we really are'...

being of course totally right and critically entirely wrong at the same time.
these artists i tell ya; some of them are on drugs I'm pretty sure.

Morrison stood courageous;p not just a sloppy drunk.
he was immature but he pushed the boundaries...
he's not my hero; but i respect him.

that interview post Doors where he's asked what he thinks the future of music will be is dead-on fascinating. "machines" pretty much; tho he said it with more meaning and context.....
There's no way The Doors aren't in the Top Ten, or higher, of the most importaqnt American bands in the rock and roll era.

i don't have a lot of albums with bands that are 'doors-like'...
tho there are cover bands like there are stones and beatlemania type acts.
i think Paul owns one. joke.
sorta.


and every other album i have, except for maybe satchmo or Harmonica Frank (thanks Rockman lol) has some kind of obvious homage....
....those blues Doors songs? ok, they are fun and rollicking but they are no rollers; nor really rockers; something else, totally rock and roll tho, if you kow what i mean; and probably if you weren't a teenager in '67 when that hit; you might not get the whole impact on the entire country that band had.
and still has.
imo they play mostly the more hackneyed familiar stuff a lot;
but we all have our favorites. they were elektra's seconds signing...
(Their big album before that was probably
"Golden Apples in the Sun" by (the great) Judy Collins).....
they really did open another 'door' into the whole thing.
meaning to, or not, in such a vast extrapolating way;
into films and many other aspects of modern media culture.


also, judging the relative 'coolness' of VU or others, by people far from the scene and the times, is not really relevant to me personally; tho I understand there are trends of popularity and so on. We've all read and listened to personal favorites who are super important but not necessarily referred to im thsee Memory Hole overload days....or maybe that's just time marching on.
the rock and roll era is over.
long over.
But Warhol is still historic and has continuing impact in huge ways...
the golden period is still as here and now as any great art.
so....it's over but it lives.
i don't know who said it; but one star said that the best back in rock and roll changes on any given night in this world. it might be someone we all swoon at and treat as a beloved Leader, (welcome to the camp i guess we all know why you're here) ...
......lol...
but i know what he meant. some night it might be YOUR band; that one song that finally flew away from the players and into the hands of the mysterious gracious magical holy space that honest expression comes from....
...and the next song you might not be the greatest rock and roll band in the world that night any more.
"The Doors"
Released at exactly the right time to really both take, and change, to some 'degree' the temperature of this nation.

there are still some rock and rollers; not that many; and some young people magically are too somehow...
rock and rollers will rock and roll;
if you can get to a first seccond third fourth or fifth generation rocker
still rockin' it; i'd do it before another year or two goes by.


[www.ranker.com]
I ain't a 'list person' per se, in that I always disagree with several top choices, and have my own favorites and opinions like most fans...
but I think this high rating here in this link would not be unusual.
And there are some great, great bands on the list.
I'm just scrolling through it now but wanted to share it.
.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-27 13:12 by hopkins.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 22, 2018 05:01

Quote
stonehearted
I cannot locate the video clip where producer Paul Rothchild gave an interview about the L.A. Woman sessions, but as I remember it he described the band in general as uninspired at the beginning of those sessions, so he just walked out leaving them in the hands of engineer Bruce Botnick. The shock of having their producer walk out on them appears to have woken them up, and they were then able to pull things together enough to complete the sessions and produce an album without Rothchild's help.

Yes he wasn't happy with the entire sessions and left, but it was Riders on the Storm specifically which he referred to as "cocktail music" - or "cocktail "jazz" - not the finished album.

"Free of their producer's intense perfectionism and verbal harangues — he had complained bitterly that their attempts at “Riders on the Storm” sounded like bad cocktail jazz — the group relaxed enough in their new recording environment to lay down the basic tracks for the entire record very quickly".

Riders on the Storm

Paul leaving was a blessing in disguise for both him and the Doors:


Paul Rothchild : “Well, we went into the studio and it was dreadful. I worked my ass off for a week, but it was still awful. I finally turned to Bruce Botnick, and said, ‘I know another producer would stick with this because it's a quarter-million dollars for the producer, but I can't do this.’”

(Bruce) Botnick picks up the story: “Basically what happened is Paul was tired, the group was tired, and he recognized that and said, ‘I can't do this anymore,’ and he told me, ‘I think you can do it.’ We all went out to dinner and he laid it on the line, and he went home feeling like when you get out of school and have the whole summer ahead of you; that's how happy he felt.”

Rothchild wasn't the only one who felt liberated: “When Paul removed himself, we felt the same as he did — we were out of school; we were free,” Botnick remembers. “The guys said to me, ‘What do you think we can do here?’ And I said, ‘You guys like your rehearsal room?’ ‘Yeah, we love it there!’

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-22 05:08 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: April 22, 2018 05:30

It does sound like bad coctail jazz tho;
maybe that's what they were going for like that Beatles tune Brian plays sax on.
but i don't think they were kidding.
haha never heard that story; not really an intense fan but alwasys interested in these stories. I do like those first two albums a LOT. and 'waiting for the sun' was good too; remember anticipating and liking it; it was very different and needed to be; damn good band; interesting.....different for sure.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: April 22, 2018 05:37

Quote
Hairball
Quote
stonehearted
I cannot locate the video clip where producer Paul Rothchild gave an interview about the L.A. Woman sessions, but as I remember it he described the band in general as uninspired at the beginning of those sessions, so he just walked out leaving them in the hands of engineer Bruce Botnick. The shock of having their producer walk out on them appears to have woken them up, and they were then able to pull things together enough to complete the sessions and produce an album without Rothchild's help.

Yes he wasn't happy with the entire sessions and left, but it was Riders on the Storm specifically which he referred to as "cocktail music" - or "cocktail "jazz" - not the finished album.

Yes, I'm aware of the comment about Riders on the Storm, but according to Rothchild, he thought Riders on the Storm was fantastic; it was specifically Love Her Madly that drove him away:

BAM: Love Her Madly was not one of their better singles, I agree.

PR: That's exactly the song I was talking about that I said sounded like cocktail music. THAT'S the song that drove me out of the studio. That it sold a million copies means nothing to me. It's still bad music.

Here's the link to that complete 1981 BAM interview: [archives.waiting-forthe-sun.net]

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: ghostryder13 ()
Date: April 22, 2018 07:31

Not entirely so, most of the doors songs are from Morrison's poetry notebooks written before they were a band. they attempted a few songs on their 1965 demos and during the first album sessions but those tapes were not used for the Strange Days sessions.because both the band and Paul Rothchild wanted to experiment with the studio's recent upgrade from 4 to 8 track plus they were able to use a session bass guitarist instead of Ray Manzarek's Keyboard Bass because while it sounded good in concert, it didn't sound that great in the studio because they were a three piece band and it made their music sound thin. Rothchild was still getting use to producing rock music instead of folk



Quote
stonehearted
Fun fact:

Most of Strange Days consists of outtakes from the first album, that is, songs that were written around the same time.

Demos of My Eyes Have Seen You and Moonlight Drive date back to 1965 -- in that same recording session (September 2, 1965 at World Pacific Jazz Studios in Los Angeles, CA), they also demoed 2 songs that would be on their third album, Summer's Almost Gone and Hello I Love You, the latter of which would be a #1 national U.S. hit.

Two recordings exist of Moonlight Drive from the 1966 sessions for the first album.

So, Strange Days -- not bad for an album of mostly leftovers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-22 07:49 by ghostryder13.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: ghostryder13 ()
Date: April 22, 2018 07:42

Rothchild bailed out of the L.A. Woman sessions because he wanted to work with Janis Joplin on what would be the ''Pearl'' album instead.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 22, 2018 08:21

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
Hairball
Quote
stonehearted
I cannot locate the video clip where producer Paul Rothchild gave an interview about the L.A. Woman sessions, but as I remember it he described the band in general as uninspired at the beginning of those sessions, so he just walked out leaving them in the hands of engineer Bruce Botnick. The shock of having their producer walk out on them appears to have woken them up, and they were then able to pull things together enough to complete the sessions and produce an album without Rothchild's help.

Yes he wasn't happy with the entire sessions and left, but it was Riders on the Storm specifically which he referred to as "cocktail music" - or "cocktail "jazz" - not the finished album.

Yes, I'm aware of the comment about Riders on the Storm, but according to Rothchild, he thought Riders on the Storm was fantastic; it was specifically Love Her Madly that drove him away:

BAM: Love Her Madly was not one of their better singles, I agree.

PR: That's exactly the song I was talking about that I said sounded like cocktail music. THAT'S the song that drove me out of the studio. That it sold a million copies means nothing to me. It's still bad music.

Here's the link to that complete 1981 BAM interview: [archives.waiting-forthe-sun.net]

Yes, yes, and yes.

So long story short, he's been cited in numerous publications as calling Riders on the Storm "cocktail jazz", yet in 1981 he denies he said it specifically about Riders on the Storm , and was instead referring to specifically Love Her Madly. He even goes so far to dispel the story by praising Riders on the Storm: "The Doors did go on to produce their own record with Bruce, and from it came two excellent cuts - L.A. Woman and Riders on the Storm, the two that had been excellent in rehearsal" OK then...that almost clears that up, but I'm pretty sure there was an interview with Ray Manzarek (or Desnmore or Krieger?) who also stated Rothchild called Riders "cocktail music". But who knows - the fact is he didn't say it about the entire album which BJPortugal posted and was who I was originally replying to.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 22, 2018 08:40

Quote
ghostryder13
Rothchild bailed out of the L.A. Woman sessions because he wanted to work with Janis Joplin on what would be the ''Pearl'' album instead.

Yet according to Rothchild himself in the interview posted above by stonehearted, he had already finished working on Joplin's Pearl album:

Paul Rothchild

BAM: You were trying to make a point earlier about L.A. Woman and Riders on the Storm. I'd like to get back to that.

PR: Okay, we're back at L.A. Woman. Let's put this in my career perspective. I had close to 100 LP's under my belt. I had just finished making one of the greatest albums of my career,
a labor of total love by the most loving and dedicated musicians I'd ever worked with. I'm talking about Janis Joplin's Pearl album.

That music was full of heart, the way it's supposed to be in the studio. You got 110 percent from everyone in the band, and 150 percent from Janis.

__________________________________________________________________

Pearl: Recorded September 5 - October 4, 1970
Studio: Sunset Sound Recorders, Hollywood, California
Released: January 11, 1971

L.A. Woman: Recorded December 1970 – January 1971
Studio: The Doors' Workshop, Los Angeles, California
Released: April 19, 1971

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-22 08:42 by Hairball.

Re: Musically, I wish I knew more about ....
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: April 22, 2018 14:54

Quote
stonehearted

Here's one of the highlights of the 1977 reunion of the original mid-60s lineup (It's All Over Now, Baby Blue): [www.youtube.com]

Below, cover for the 1977 album Before We Were So Rudely Interrupted:



I also liked Ark, their new-wave era 1983 second reunion album. I saw them twice on that tour. Still with all five original members.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-22 14:58 by tatters.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: BJPortugal ()
Date: April 22, 2018 15:02

In the already cited Bam interview Paul said about early LA Woman sessions: "I worked my ass off for a week, but it was still just @#$%& awful. I'd go into them and TELL them that, hoping that it would make them angry enough to do something good: "This isn't rock 'n' roll, it's cocktail lounge music!"

And in the final assessment about that album he said: "The Doors did go on to produce their own record with Bruce, and from it came two excellent cuts - L.A. Woman and Riders on the Storm, the two that had been excellent in rehearsal. As far as I'm concerned you can take the entire rest of the record and throw it in the garbage can. I think it's terrible."

Yet, like me, it is only a matter of taste, I suppose smileys with beer

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: April 22, 2018 15:19

Here's Eric on a solo tour in 1982. He was still just 41 and could really belt 'em out. I saw him play an intimate club gig on that tour and he just about blew the roof off. Many years later I took my wife to see him, wanting her to hear the incredible vocal power that I had experienced. He still sounded pretty damn good, but, of course, it just wasn't like this.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-22 15:19 by tatters.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: noughties ()
Date: April 22, 2018 16:12

LA Woman is an album that will create some "difficulties" if yer not a diehard. Maybe The Doors were up there with the rest of the rock entourage in the US at the time, but in little Norway they sure were "underground", a word that has disappeared from the vocabulary. If you were "underground" you were under the radar, along with Led Zeppelin, really. You were considered extreme and a threat. I don`t think Doors albums could be found in many record shops. Besides, LPs were expensive back then. To be cool, it was enough to own some albums by The Beatles and The Stones, plus the Aquarius album (ha-ha).

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: April 22, 2018 20:17

Quote
Hairball
So long story short, he's been cited in numerous publications as calling Riders on the Storm "cocktail jazz", yet in 1981 he denies he said it specifically about Riders on the Storm , and was instead referring to specifically Love Her Madly. He even goes so far to dispel the story by praising Riders on the Storm: "The Doors did go on to produce their own record with Bruce, and from it came two excellent cuts - L.A. Woman and Riders on the Storm, the two that had been excellent in rehearsal" OK then...that almost clears that up, but I'm pretty sure there was an interview with Ray Manzarek (or Desnmore or Krieger?) who also stated Rothchild called Riders "cocktail music". But who knows - the fact is he didn't say it about the entire album which BJPortugal posted and was who I was originally replying to.

I always thought as well it was Riders on the Storm that was referred to as cocktail music.

I think the reason for this discrepancy is that it was a "mis-remembered" quote that was printed in an otherwise reputable source -- the Jerry Hopkins/Danny Sugarman Doors bio No One Here Gets Out Alive.

Widely read as well as authorized, that mis-remembered quote would just be taken as fact and reprinted down through the ages.

It's easy to see why it could be attributed to Riders on the Storm, given that the song is piano driven -- and when you think of classic cocktail/lounge music a la Vegas, you think of a piano.

Love Her Madly, on the other hand, just seems more like a straightforward pop song -- which I would imagine is why it was such a big hit.

So, yeah, I came across that interview a while back, and it does clear up the story of why Rothchild walked out and what led to it -- kind of ironic that it was Love Her Madly, a song about someone walking out. smiling smiley

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: April 22, 2018 20:37

UNCUT 2013 The Doors - L.A Woman and Jim Morrison; Tipping Point

The 40th anniversary of Morrison’s death followed on the heels of that of LA Woman. Due for a two-disc deluxe release later this year (see panel, p45), the famous album – loaded with FM rock staples dragged from the gut and the swamp – sees the three ex-Doors, for once, in agreement. They all treasure it. Manzarek defines it as “the root-core Doors”, and asks rhetorically, “How can you not love an album that has ‘Riders On The Storm’ and ‘LA Woman’?” It’s a reasonable question.

For Densmore, LA Woman “got us back to our roots. We’d started out in a garage in Venice, California and we finished up in a rehearsal studio – making LA Woman quickly, spontaneously, going for the feel.” Krieger: “We were all in the mood to play some blues. Jim was really into the blues at that point. The blues pretty much set the tone for the whole album.”

Morrison’s approach to LA Woman, as we’ll see, was different to other Doors recordings. Photographer and filmmaker Frank Lisciandro, a close friend of Morrison, is tempted to place LA Woman in a valedictory context rather than a musical one. “If you look at the 10 songs,” Lisciandro argues, “eight of them were written by Jim. Five of them have a strong ‘Goodbye, I’m getting out of here, things are about to change’ feel to them. There’s a thematic flow to the album. There’s no doubt that Morrison is saying goodbye to a city, to a culture and to the people who’d embraced him and thrust him into stardom.”

While The Doors made LA Woman downstairs in their rehearsal room, Bill Siddons worked in his office upstairs, dealing with the day-to-day dramas of America’s most controversial band, its singer’s drink dependency (Morrison could sink 36 cans of beer in a day), his unwillingness to tour, his imminent prison sentence, his fluctuating moods and his helter-skelter, unpredictable lifestyle. Siddons had managed The Doors since he was 18, and was still only 22. He describes the experience as “being like a kid trying to control a moving, pulsating blob in which anything can happen or change at any moment, and you never have any idea what’s coming next”.

Such was the context, the subtext, the reality of LA Woman.

_____________________

Jac Holzman, 39-year-old founder of Elektra Records, had signed The Doors in 1966 after being tipped to their potential by Arthur Lee. Holzman saw them four nights in succession at the Whisky A Go Go before he realised Lee might be right. Not the sort of man to interfere in The Doors’ private lives, Holzman did, however, sometimes make a tactful intervention in their music; he’d once forbidden Krieger to use a wah-wah pedal on a song. The band called him ‘El Supremo’.

Earlier in 1970, Elektra had teamed up with two larger companies, Warner Bros and Atlantic, in a move that radically improved its distribution in America and overseas. Elektra wasn’t a sales-driven, commercially calculating label, but, as it happened, The Doors were a group whose success could be relied on. “They were gigantic,” says Holzman, now almost 80. “Remember, this was a time when DJs were playing whole albums. They would play all The Doors’ albums. The buzz and recognition of the band was continuous. A new Doors album was going to be a huge event no matter what.”

For all that, Holzman hadn’t been a particularly big admirer of their 1970 album, Morrison Hotel, feeling they’d “gone back into their comfort zone… I was hoping for something more adventurous.” Early rehearsals for LA Woman at Sunset Sound Recorders did nothing to raise his expectations. Indeed, they presented him with a major setback. Paul Rothchild, the producer of the band’s records since 1966, who’d recently been working with Janis Joplin [Pearl] just prior to her death in October, seemed exhausted and disillusioned. When The Doors played him their new epic, “Riders On The Storm”, Rothchild put his head in his hands and said, “I can’t do this any more.” He left the rehearsal with an ungracious comment about “Riders…” and cocktail jazz.

Rock’s history books portray Rothchild as something of a chump for failing to spot the magnificence of “Riders…”, yet it was more complicated, more emotional, than that. After five Doors studio albums in four years (and a live one), Rothchild sensed he’d become an impediment, not a facilitator. He was a perfectionist, a “30 takes” man, and this was one time when The Doors needed imperfection desperately. If Rothchild had produced LA Woman, remarks his engineer Bruce Botnick, “it probably would have killed him sooner than the cancer that got him [in 1995]”.

Later that night, an emergency meeting was held in a nearby Chinese restaurant. The Doors returned, telling Botnick they wanted to co-produce the album with him. Instead of using a top-dollar recording studio, they intended to record in the rehearsal room of their office building, The Doors’ Workshop (on the corner of La Cienega and Santa Monica Boulevards), where a clubhouse atmosphere prevailed and there was a pinball machine. “It was a place where they could come and go with zero pressure,” notes Siddons.

Botnick, 25, immediately made a suggestion. He’d been engineering an album by Marc Benno, a singer who’d had a duo with Leon Russell in the ’60s (The Asylum Choir) and was now making solo records for A&M. The bassist on Benno’s LP was Jerry Scheff, from Elvis Presley’s renowned TCB Band. Botnick: “As soon as I said that, Morrison’s ears pricked up. ‘Oh, I’d like that! Elvis’ bass player!’” Besides hiring Scheff to add muscle to the rhythm section (The Doors, of course, had no bassist), Botnick brought in Benno as a rhythm guitarist, giving Krieger the freedom to concentrate on his idiosyncratic lead lines. The Doors, that angular foursome with the unorthodox Spanish-rock sound, were now a reinforced, souped-up sextet.

Botnick liked the new tracks he was hearing, but Holzman hadn’t been privy to any of them. For Holzman, LA Woman was a step into the unknown, and a risk he was happy to take. “I trusted the band,” he says, “and I trusted Botnick, who I knew had done a lot of the important production work on Love’s Forever Changes. I thought The Doors would be in good hands. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have rubbed a rabbit’s foot if I’d had one.”

The Doors made one demand of Holzman. They insisted that he stay away from the recording sessions. Physically, this was not easy; Elektra’s offices were directly across the street from The Doors’ Workshop. Holzman stuck to the bargain and didn’t cross the road once.

______________

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Bjorn ()
Date: April 22, 2018 20:57

There were hundreds of good bands in England and California back then, as we all know... 1965-1970...wow! A golden era. The modern stuff...so called r&b, hiphop, club-music...Avicii...well, sorry...I just don´t get it...Between the buttons - to me - is ten times better than anything produced in 2018... ;-)

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: tomcasagranda ()
Date: April 22, 2018 21:26

I love the Animals from 1963-1967, however I would love to know people's opinions of Everyone of Us, and Love Is.

For what it's worth, I adore Eric Burdon Declares War as an album.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: April 22, 2018 21:27

(edited in):
I should have read runaways post above before posting this link;
because a lot of this history this link speaks of, was covered;
I'd jumped in w this post below, inspired by a previous post and hadn't read thru. omg stonehearted too; i should start reading more comprehensively; but the link is still cool...
________________________________________________________---




[www.thedoors.com]

interesting genesis story re: The Doors first recordings here.

i'm far from any of these stories; and Holzman gave the green light to MC5 and a lot of super important seminal, sort of explosive, defimtely 'different' stuff.

I'd take issue with the romancing of Jim's death but was just a kid; distant fan; actually know nothing personally, tho I've met his mates over time....
....i don't think he craved immortality thru early death;
i think that's a disrepectful notion; Jac does not talk about actually
being w Jim in those last months and weeks. The pictures of him and Pam show a guy shaved clear-faced; did a good job edging his side-burns neat; did not have any flashy clothes on that would call attention to himself in Paris.
I just hesitate to see folks retrospecitively romance-up a sad
accident, however that happened. There's no imdication the guy
wanted to die for Goodness sake. He could have arranged a master-piece
theater of it and all kinds of doom poetry instead of a lot of
sweet stuff in there too....
....i just found that holzman interview tho, and found a Lot of it very informative; I'm interested in the way things changed from folk to rock and roll; and the whole thing that exploded into WEA from there.....



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-23 07:28 by hopkins.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 22, 2018 21:55

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
Hairball
So long story short, he's been cited in numerous publications as calling Riders on the Storm "cocktail jazz", yet in 1981 he denies he said it specifically about Riders on the Storm , and was instead referring to specifically Love Her Madly. He even goes so far to dispel the story by praising Riders on the Storm: "The Doors did go on to produce their own record with Bruce, and from it came two excellent cuts - L.A. Woman and Riders on the Storm, the two that had been excellent in rehearsal" OK then...that almost clears that up, but I'm pretty sure there was an interview with Ray Manzarek (or Desnmore or Krieger?) who also stated Rothchild called Riders "cocktail music". But who knows - the fact is he didn't say it about the entire album which BJPortugal posted and was who I was originally replying to.

I always thought as well it was Riders on the Storm that was referred to as cocktail music.

I think the reason for this discrepancy is that it was a "mis-remembered" quote that was printed in an otherwise reputable source -- the Jerry Hopkins/Danny Sugarman Doors bio No One Here Gets Out Alive.

Widely read as well as authorized, that mis-remembered quote would just be taken as fact and reprinted down through the ages.

It's easy to see why it could be attributed to Riders on the Storm, given that the song is piano driven -- and when you think of classic cocktail/lounge music a la Vegas, you think of a piano.

Love Her Madly, on the other hand, just seems more like a straightforward pop song -- which I would imagine is why it was such a big hit.

So, yeah, I came across that interview a while back, and it does clear up the story of why Rothchild walked out and what led to it -- kind of ironic that it was Love Her Madly, a song about someone walking out. smiling smiley

Love Her Madly is a great tune w/great lyrics and a driving pulse - maybe a bit "poppy", but still bluesy rock and roll. But perhaps I have a bit of sentimental attachment to it as my older bro (who was 11 at the time) bought the single and album when it was released, and as a seven year old I was interested in most everything big bro was into - we listened to the single constantly and it's one of those tunes that transports me right back to where I was when listening to it today. Same with One Toke over the Line by Brewer and Shipley, and Amos Moses by Jerry Reed. smiling smiley

As for Rothchild's comment about Love Her Madly:

"That it sold a million copies means nothing to me. It's still bad music".

Sounds like sour grapes to me, and glad he kept his dirty ungrateful paws away from it!!! winking smiley

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: noughties ()
Date: April 23, 2018 02:15

Love Her Madly and the title track were the first songs I heard of the band. If you remember those C90 cassettes there was still some time left for a couple of songs after having recorded an album, so by coincidence I happended to hear those two last songs at a friend. I thought it was a unique sound with a relaxed deep voice and some musicians that were far from heavy. That appealed to me.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: April 23, 2018 14:40

I also wanted to see what acts others felt this way about.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: rattler2004 ()
Date: April 23, 2018 17:42

Paul Rothchild was quite simply incorrect in his assessment of the LA Woman release. He was also incorrect in his production of The Soft Parade. Odd that their worst album came in the middle of their recording career (with Morrison)

Also I’ve read that Rothchild didn’t initially ‘get’ The Doors...it was by Botnick’s insisting that they were great that he finally came to understand their music....so he could produce the first album.

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: mrjones ()
Date: April 26, 2018 03:51

thedoors.com world premiere sat. of movie Break on thru-A celebration Ray Manzarek & the doors at asbury park music & film festival. John Densmore will be there for Q&A after the movie. sold out-very small place. Actually going there sunday for the dylan thing. I've always liked the doors much. seen them a couple of times

Re: Musically, I wish I knew more about ....
Posted by: The Sicilian ()
Date: April 26, 2018 04:04

Quote
tatters
I also liked Ark, their new-wave era 1983 second reunion album. I saw them twice on that tour. Still with all five original members.

I was their North American tour show opener in Buffalo at Shea's Theatre.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: noughties ()
Date: April 27, 2018 01:35

The casual fan only likes the highlights. The diehard doesn`t want to hear the truth. Finally, I`ve met a guy who only liked Hyasinth House and thought Rock and Roll Music was the best Beatles song. I don`t know what to make of people like that. He was a Bowie fan.

Re: OT: Musically, I wish I knew more about The Doors and The Animals
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 27, 2018 03:45

Not sure if I'd seen this before, but footage of road trip with Jim to Hearst Castle and then to Solvang, CA - a quaint/touristy Danish themed town about an hour drive north from where I live.

Descripton:
December 1970 / Early 1971 - A Road Trip with Jim Morrison, CA. (©Charlotte Stewart)
THE LAST KNOWN FOOTAGE OF JAMES DOUGLAS MORRISON ALIVE
(*not sure how accurate this is)

A ROAD TRIP WITH JIM MORRISON




-©Lisa Capretto (Huffington Post) “We became drinking buddies,” Stewart says. “We used to go down the street, close to where my store was, and sit at a bar and talk... On more than one occasion, I would help him home, either to his or mine.” She continues, “I wasn’t looking for romance, I wasn’t looking for a partner. I was just kind of a buddy that he could talk to. Well, I call it a ‘buddy with benefits,’ if you know what I mean.” In the midst of their friendship, Morrison found himself facing serious charges for indecent exposure. “There was a lot of paparazzi around, there was a lot of, oh, just hassle in his life,” she says. “I think he just wanted to get away. So, Morrison invited Stewart to accompany him on a short road trip. We hopped in his car and we drove up the coast of California, stopping in little bars and pool halls all the way,” Stewart says. “We went up to Cambria, which is where the Hearst Castle is, took the bus up to the Hearst Castle and nobody recognized him at all.” Stewart took video of their four-day trip together, but points out that, for the most part, she and Morrison quietly took it all in. “There wasn’t a lot of talking. It was mainly driving, looking out the window at the Pacific Ocean,” she says. “We had a very nice time.” Unfortunately, they wouldn’t be spending any more time together. “He dropped me off, and I never saw him again,” Stewart says. “I think I was one of the last people to spend some personal time [with him]. He left soon afterward for Paris and, as you know, he died there.”

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Musically, I wish I knew more about ....
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: April 27, 2018 04:41

Quote
The Sicilian
Quote
tatters
I also liked Ark, their new-wave era 1983 second reunion album. I saw them twice on that tour. Still with all five original members.

I was their North American tour show opener in Buffalo at Shea's Theatre.

I saw both of their NYC performances; 7/22/83 at Pier 84, and 11/12/83 at the Beacon Theater.

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