Personally I don't need any songs of the calibre of Mixed Emotions, Sparks Will Fly, Don't Stop or One More Shot. They destroy the show.

Nonsense, your memories fail you, what's the latest show you've seen and are you planning on attending this time around ?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
Nonsense, your memories fail you, what's the latest show you've seen and are you planning on attending this time around ?

Unfortunately I can't spend 1000's of Dollars for touring. And last year I was in hospital instead on tour. But what does it have to do with the topic? Did they play a great version of Sparks Will Fly within the last ten years? Probably not.
Of course it's subjective. Some think One More Shot for instance is a great song, some say filler. But I'm not the only one who thinks that the new tracks (or some of them) are often the weakest tracks in the whole show. By the way, I have 2/3 of the shows 2012-16 on silver. And maybe 400 shows total. I know what I'm talking about.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-21 11:08 by Monsoon Ragoon.

Such discussions are entirely subjective. In my view, during VOODOO LOUNGE "Sparks Will Fly" sounded great every night while on STEEL WHEELS and URBAN JUNGLE "Sad, Sad, Sad" was terrible. I thought they struggled with translating both "Mixed Emotions" and "Love is Strong" in concert, but "Flip the Switch," "Saint of Me," and "Out of Control" were solid every night. It doesn't make me wrong and someone with the opposite opinion right. What you enjoy is what you enjoy. For me, the fact that it's not a warhorse is irrelevant to whether they do the song justice. Sometimes I like a live version better than the studio cut. There is no hard and fast rule.

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Monsoon Ragoon
The problem is that the new songs do not have the quality of Dead Flowers, Brown Sugar, Loving Cup etc. - since decades. Just watched the 1st O2 2012 show on DVD - the two new songs are the weakest of the show, by far. The only other track that isn't very old, Out Of Control, is the 3rd weakest.

That doesn't make any sense,especially in regard to which songs are selected for the live concerts.

"Loving Cup" has been performed at less than 25 shows in the Stones entire career. There have been plenty of new songs "since decades" performed more often than "Loving Cup".

Furthermore,I am going to have to strongly disagree that "Out of Control" has ever been the "3rd weakest" song at any concert they've ever performed it in. It was very strong in '97 and '05 and even in '15 although not as strong in '15 as earlier performances.

"Miss You" (since 2005 and in the '90's) and the pre-programmed "Sympathy for the Devil" from the past 12 years or so have very often stood out as the weakest songs that they have done. Performed worse than most of the more recent material.

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Winning Ugly VXII
I am going to have to strongly disagree that "Out of Control" has ever been the "3rd weakest" song at any concert they've ever performed it in. It was very strong in '97 and '05 and even in '15 although not as strong in '15 as earlier performances.

It was even stronger in '72 when The Temptations performed it: [www.youtube.com]

That ain't right.

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Winning Ugly VXII

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Monsoon Ragoon
The problem is that the new songs do not have the quality of Dead Flowers, Brown Sugar, Loving Cup etc. - since decades. Just watched the 1st O2 2012 show on DVD - the two new songs are the weakest of the show, by far. The only other track that isn't very old, Out Of Control, is the 3rd weakest.

That doesn't make any sense,especially in regard to which songs are selected for the live concerts.

"Loving Cup" has been performed at less than 25 shows in the Stones entire career. There have been plenty of new songs "since decades" performed more often than "Loving Cup".

Furthermore,I am going to have to strongly disagree that "Out of Control" has ever been the "3rd weakest" song at any concert they've ever performed it in. It was very strong in '97 and '05 and even in '15 although not as strong in '15 as earlier performances.

"Miss You" (since 2005 and in the '90's) and the pre-programmed "Sympathy for the Devil" from the past 12 years or so have very often stood out as the weakest songs that they have done. Performed worse than most of the more recent material.

Out Of Control is made for stadiums. It's okay, it works, but it is not really a good song. I only said that it was the 3rd weakest song at O2 2012, my personal opinion. What's your problem? I wish they would play Laugh I Nearly Died instead, that's a classic but wouldn't work probably.

I agree however that Miss You and Sympathy (I would add at least It's Only Rock'n Roll) are "horrible" as well, not only because they've been played to death, but also because the performance is embarrassing ("hu hu hu hu, hu hu hu") compared to the great early live versions.

But you don't get 60.000 in the stadium for 200, 300 Euro tickets if you play like 1978. Sadly they have to play those embarrassing songs and arrangement because folks would go to toilet otherwise - and never attend another Stones show. This band is a circus act meanwhile, but still good enough. However, what they delivered last year shows that they're getting really old. I hope we won't see shows with 100 % the same setlist in 2021. But that's the direction it goes.

Trying to "grade" songs in a live context makes no sense, as someone wrote somewhere (the guy from the Superdeluxe blog I believe) it's generally hard NOT to enjoy a live show even if you don't know a band, so when you're a fan and when it's the Stones who are probably the best at putting up fantastic shows, you'd really have to be in a bad way/mood to get all analytical and pissy.

Yes, over the years, a FEW songs have fallen flat, Sway in 2006, Silver Train in 2014, but other than ASMB they generally didn't play them again/often.

New (rare) songs are a "problem" for casual fans who who only come for the warhorses but for fans like us, anything new should be a treat.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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Monsoon Ragoon
By the way, I have 2/3 of the shows 2012-16 on silver.

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Monsoon Ragoon
This band is a circus act meanwhile, but still good enough.

Man,you like the circus,don't you ?
Grumpy mood somehow or whatever...

By the way...OOC is a gem and it was great when they played it at Düsseldorf '14.
You probably missed that one in your collection.

if the Stones aren't an "nostalgia"/"oldies" act now, then who is? Playing the same 17 songs every show for years and with no new material for 13 years and counting. I mean, I like going, but it is what it is.

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shortfatfanny

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Monsoon Ragoon
By the way, I have 2/3 of the shows 2012-16 on silver.

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Monsoon Ragoon
This band is a circus act meanwhile, but still good enough.

Man,you like the circus,don't you ?
Grumpy mood somehow or whatever...

By the way...OOC is a gem and it was great when they played it at Düsseldorf '14.
You probably missed that one in your collection.

Still a pretty good circus ;-) But the shows were much more interesting when the "Never Ending Tour" started in 12/13.
No, I never heard Dusseldorf 14. That's one of the 3rd 3rd.

Nostagia act is a bit harsh, but not completely wrong, we have to admit it.
Playing a new tune would be awesome, and why not release a single instead of an album prior to the tour.


I'd also love to see them dig a bit deeper in the catalogue.

Play With Fire and Sway were played rarely in the recent years, it would be great to see them show up again
And why not some others, like Fingerprint File, You Gotta Move, or Lady Jane and Far Awaty Eyes to celebrate Some Girls' anniversary this year.

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

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gotdablouse
Trying to "grade" songs in a live context makes no sense, as someone wrote somewhere (the guy from the Superdeluxe blog I believe) it's generally hard NOT to enjoy a live show even if you don't know a band, so when you're a fan and when it's the Stones who are probably the best at putting up fantastic shows, you'd really have to be in a bad way/mood to get all analytical and pissy.

Yes, over the years, a FEW songs have fallen flat, Sway in 2006, Silver Train in 2014, but other than ASMB they generally didn't play them again/often.

New (rare) songs are a "problem" for casual fans who who only come for the warhorses but for fans like us, anything new should be a treat.

Other than ASMB?? They have only done that song once outside of '97/'98 . It seemed to work better on the live TV performances (VH1 and MTV) and in rehearsals (Closer Than Close album) than it did in giant stadiums. It was even more raggedy the one time they brought it back a couple of years ago. Lack of practice with it at that point ??

"Sway" seemed to gradually improve in general compared to the first few live performances. Los Angeles early 2006 at the Forum was not that bad.The same goes for Gillette Stadium on the fall 2006 tour. Really,though,Sway needs Taylor. If he's not there,they shouldn't bother with it any longer.

As far as "Silver Train" goes,they should have done it more. I actually enjoyed the version from the Tokyo Dome despite Watts having some problems figuring it out again. Didn't seem to be too popular with the audience,though,especially the last time that they tried it in Australia .... going by the tape.

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Rocky Dijon

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Doxa
Namely, now to think of it, among all those songs performed before released, "Worried About You" seems to be in a rank of its own, a real oddity. With any other track there is some sort of 'rational' explanation why to perform it, but not here. It is a track initially done to BLACK AND BLUE - or a fruit of those sessions - but why on earth they decided to play it, suddenly, almost a year after the record was released? Why not, for example, some other, actually released BLACK AND BLUE track? And then it was forgotten for almost four years. Since as far I know, they haven't been in a studio for some time, so it wasn't a song they just happened to be at the time working on (as we could say of "Loving Cup" in regards to Hyde Park). And that's why, suddenly, decided to 'test live'. No, the sessions for upcoming album (SOME GIRLS) hadn't even started yet. There wasn't anything to 'road-test'.

It looks like that they (Mick?) had some plans for it - they hadn't forgotten it as 'just another out-take'. No, all I can imply is that they must have liked it and saw it as a serious candidate to release some day - probably in an album to follow BLACK AND BLUE. But, however, the Toronto performance happened just before the punk thing hitted Jagger hard, which had a tremendous effect on the nature of SOME GIRLS album. We can easily see why a 'mature', soulful long ballad was suddenly 'yesterday's papers' for a 'new', updated Jagger.

- Doxa

I actually believe I know the answer to this, but I can't offer a quote to back it up (which doesn't mean someone more knowledgeable can't). The answer is while it didn't make BLACK AND BLUE where they already had two ballads, it was considered for a possible appearance on LOVE YOU LIVE as a brand new song recorded live. Unlike all the other club shows they've played since the band became hugely successful, the El Mocambo gigs were arranged to give them something special for LOVE YOU LIVE. That's what Knebworth was supposed to do, but didn't in their estimation so they tried again.

In the process of planning the set lists they decided to try a leftover and see if it could be given new life. Obviously, they ended up not going with it after playback. Had things not gone the way they did in 1979/80, it might have stayed locked in the vaults. Happily, TATTOO YOU gave us a chance to hear it.

The promo film indicates early on in 1981 it was considered as a potential single and live staple and yet, by the time they hit the road i 1981, they never touched it and it stayed an album track only. Feedback from Atlantic and EMI and likely radio program directors would be my guess as to what killed it.

Mick has obviously always felt an affinity for the song because it keeps getting another chance at life. I love it so I, for one, am pleased with it. Substituting it for "Fool to Cry" would have made BLACK AND BLUE a far stronger album in my view.

Rocky, took some time to respond, since the oddity called 'real life outside IORR' - there seemingly exists one - did some twists for me...

Yeah, your explanation sounds very plausible - and more than that: it makes sense. Never heard or though about earlier, but that is just my ignorance and lack of imagination. Even though a double live album was a kinda hip thing to do back then (especially after Peter Frampton's one), it still was considered as a potential risk commercially. So it was understable that it - the upcoming LOVE YOU LIVE - was to beefed up with something extra than just to document a 'normal' Stones show of already familiar or obvious material.

So "Worried About You" seemingly failed twice - but the third time tells the truth, as it is said at least in Finnish folklore. I wonder if Keith had something to do with it not making either BLACK AND BLUE or LOVE YOU LIVE - he seemingly wasn't too happy with "Fool To Cry", so probably another 'mature' Jagger ballad didn't impress him either? As is reported Mick and Keith had some deep arguments over the content of LOVE YOU LIVE, probably "Worried About You" was one of the key issues... Anyway, I think the reason why the track didn't make BLACK AND BLUE is like you said: they had three long ballads of which they needed to leave one out.

That said, I actually am happy that none of the tracks that ended up in TATTOO YOU hadn't released earlier, because I don't think they would have sounded as good as they did in that album. Probably something to do with production, and Jagger's inspired vocals, but also that of letting the songs to grow up some time to really to realize all the potentia they have. Besides they cohere so well - especially GOATS HEAD SOUP and BLACK AND BLUE numbers with each other and the rest - that it gives the whole album such an unique sense of depth and rich variance. In that context I think songs like "Slave" or "Waiting On A Friend" really are more distinctive and significant than being 'buried' in the albums they were initially made for. I don't think they would have not stood out so well earlier.

But I need to admit that is pretty hard for me to be very 'objective' about TATTOO YOU. That was my very first Stones album, and probably still somehow the dearest onee though I know they have made stronger albums - one cannot underestimate its impact on me...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-27 00:47 by Doxa.