Quote
out of my head
Does anybody know why the El Mocambo ‘77 show has never had an official release ? Now THAT would be a great archive release. I wonder about that one a lot. I have had a bootleg before but it sounded like shit. I understand a few of the tracks from that show on LYL were overdubbed and what not but whatever. They still sound so cool. I wish that show would see an official release with sound quality on par with LYL tracks. Any one have any insight or knowledge as to why this has not seen the light of day ?

The bootleg sounds great to my ears.

Supposedly the first night's tapes were technically unusable. So that just leaves the 5th March show. I would imagine what was released and what has been bootlegged comes from that night. (the band intros certainly do).

Unless theres some technical reason, I'm at a loss as to why this show hasnt been released. Its evident people close to them reads fan forums so they cant have failed to see that this show is a bit of a holy grail for many people.

Then again, considering the fact that they went to Toronto specifically to record material for a live album (despite having shows in the can from 1975-76) and THEN only released four of the songs on a double LP - a release on which they were clearly the standout tracks - makes me wonder if there were indeed technical issues which prevented them adding many more.

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Gazza

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tomk

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Gazza
How would you get a deluxe of Tattoo You when it was almost entirely made up of unfinished songs from previous albums and where Jagger did most of his vocals on his own in a studio in Paris?

There could be alternate vocal and mixes that were done. And there may be other songs Kimsey picked that didn't make the final cut. Kimsey would have the best answer for that. Keep in mind, though, that we're dealing with a singer who doesn't like to relive any of this, two guitar players who don't care, a bass player 20-plus years removed from anything, and a drummer, when asked, will say, "I don't remember. Why are you asking me these things?" They really need to get there archives in order if they're gonna do this stuff. The Some Girls edition was horrible. They could have done so much more with that, but they didn't. The "From The Vault" series is good, but Jagger, as I said, doesn't care about any of this. Why on earth would you put an outake from 1967 on an Exile deluxe edition? Because you don't care.

They were in a hurry to finish Tattoo You for the tour. I doubt that in Paris in spring '81 Mick finished vocals on many songs that ended up not being used.

There were certainly alternate versions and mixes though although whether thats worth padding out to a second disc is another matter. You'd basically just be releasing songs that have different vocal overdubs to what was released.

Agree with much of the rest of what youre saying though. While there was some nice material on these releases, the way they tried to rewrite history was crappy. The Some Girls one is the only one that still holds up for me. I thought the Sticky Fingers 'bonus' studio material was mostly pointless and half arsed, even if at least they didnt add new parts to the songs for those ones.

Well, they also omitted alternate versions of Sway, You Gotta Move and Sister Morphine from the Sticky Fingers Deluxe Edition. I am also surprised that the live tracks from the Roundhouse weren't live versions of some of the songs from Sticky Fingers. I like the bonus disc on Sticky Fingers but it could have been better.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-04 04:43 by boogaloojef.

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Gazza

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out of my head
Does anybody know why the El Mocambo ‘77 show has never had an official release ? Now THAT would be a great archive release. I wonder about that one a lot. I have had a bootleg before but it sounded like shit. I understand a few of the tracks from that show on LYL were overdubbed and what not but whatever. They still sound so cool. I wish that show would see an official release with sound quality on par with LYL tracks. Any one have any insight or knowledge as to why this has not seen the light of day ?

The bootleg sounds great to my ears.

Supposedly the first night's tapes were technically unusable. So that just leaves the 5th March show. I would imagine what was released and what has been bootlegged comes from that night. (the band intros certainly do).

Unless theres some technical reason, I'm at a loss as to why this show hasnt been released. Its evident people close to them reads fan forums so they cant have failed to see that this show is a bit of a holy grail for many people.

Then again, considering the fact that they went to Toronto specifically to record material for a live album (despite having shows in the can from 1975-76) and THEN only released four of the songs on a double LP - a release on which they were clearly the standout tracks - makes me wonder if there were indeed technical issues which prevented them adding many more.

According to Barbara Charone's book, they were supposed to play 4-5 nights in Toronto, but Keith's late arrival cut it down to two. Whether that's true or not, who knows? However, if you have 4 nights of shows instead of two, more to choose from, probably.

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shortfatfanny
They should pay for the right to delete this awful Memory Motel version from a planned expanded edition,if this is a serious issue...

If only. Then they could reissue BRIDGES TO BABYLON using the version of "Anybody Seen My Baby" without the Biz Markie sample or the version of "Juiced" before The Dust Brothers shat all over it. The possibilities, while not endless, are at least tantalizing.

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Hairball
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet - if not a deluxe edition, certainly reason to celebrate!
Maybe a special vinyl edition like they did with Satanic Majesties.

I could see them going this route, as it is the 50th anniversary.
If so, they should have started planning this months ago.
It'd be interesting to know if the Beatles are going to do a White Album deluxe this year. There's no definite answer on that yet.
If not, I bet they're planning something for a Let It Be/Get Back deluxe for either next year or the year after that. I don't see Abbey Road getting a big reissue for some reason.
Funny, I've not heard anything about a Hendrix Electric Ladyland reissue for this year, which I thought would happen.

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tomk

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Hairball
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet - if not a deluxe edition, certainly reason to celebrate!
Maybe a special vinyl edition like they did with Satanic Majesties.

I could see them going this route, as it is the 50th anniversary.
If so, they should have started planning this months ago.
It'd be interesting to know if the Beatles are going to do a White Album deluxe this year. There's no definite answer on that yet.
If not, I bet they're planning something for a Let It Be/Get Back deluxe for either next year or the year after that. I don't see Abbey Road getting a big reissue for some reason.
Funny, I've not heard anything about a Hendrix Electric Ladyland reissue for this year, which I thought would happen.

Not sure if it's absolutely 100% positively definite, but this article from May '17 leads me to believe something is in the works.

George Martin’s son claims there will be new mix of the ‘White Album

Giles Martin, son of The Beatles producer George Martin, has confirmed plans to re-mix the band’s 1968 work ‘White Album’.

To mark the 50th anniversary of ‘Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band’, Martin worked alongside engineer Sam Okell to re-mix the album in stereo.
Speaking on Radcliffe and Maconie’s BBC Radio 6 Music show, he appeared to confirm plans to do the same for ‘White Album’.

Asked if there was more material in the Beatles’ archive to remaster, he joked: “I kind of hope not,” before adding: “‘White Album’, which will be the next release – that was when they started becoming properly indulgent…There are so many takes of ‘Sexy Sadie’, for instance. The efficiency went slightly out the window.”

Martin explained his motivation to re-mix early Beatles material – both giving collectors something to get excited about and modernising the band’s appeal. “My motivation – when I tell my kids or grandkids about this album that changed the face of pop music, you want them to put it on a go, ‘Yeah, I get it!’ rather than, ‘This sounds a bit old…’” he said.

He added: “It’s getting that balance between trying to provide people what they want. There’s quite a lot of stuff.”

___________________________________________________________________________

Being that it was released in November, 1968, might see it towards the end of the year...and just in time for Christmas!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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tomk

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Hairball
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet - if not a deluxe edition, certainly reason to celebrate!
Maybe a special vinyl edition like they did with Satanic Majesties.

I could see them going this route, as it is the 50th anniversary.
If so, they should have started planning this months ago.
It'd be interesting to know if the Beatles are going to do a White Album deluxe this year. There's no definite answer on that yet.
If not, I bet they're planning something for a Let It Be/Get Back deluxe for either next year or the year after that. I don't see Abbey Road getting a big reissue for some reason.
Funny, I've not heard anything about a Hendrix Electric Ladyland reissue for this year, which I thought would happen.

Not sure if it's absolutely 100% positively definite, but this article from May '17 leads me to believe something is in the works.

George Martin’s son claims there will be new mix of the ‘White Album

Giles Martin, son of The Beatles producer George Martin, has confirmed plans to re-mix the band’s 1968 work ‘White Album’.

To mark the 50th anniversary of ‘Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band’, Martin worked alongside engineer Sam Okell to re-mix the album in stereo.
Speaking on Radcliffe and Maconie’s BBC Radio 6 Music show, he appeared to confirm plans to do the same for ‘White Album’.

Asked if there was more material in the Beatles’ archive to remaster, he joked: “I kind of hope not,” before adding: “‘White Album’, which will be the next release – that was when they started becoming properly indulgent…There are so many takes of ‘Sexy Sadie’, for instance. The efficiency went slightly out the window.”

Martin explained his motivation to re-mix early Beatles material – both giving collectors something to get excited about and modernising the band’s appeal. “My motivation – when I tell my kids or grandkids about this album that changed the face of pop music, you want them to put it on a go, ‘Yeah, I get it!’ rather than, ‘This sounds a bit old…’” he said.

He added: “It’s getting that balance between trying to provide people what they want. There’s quite a lot of stuff.”

___________________________________________________________________________

Being that it was released in November, 1968, might see it towards the end of the year...and just in time for Christmas!

Indeed. And the Sgt. Pepper box (which I love) is just various takes and mixes of the tunes, and people ate it up. And there's a 50th anniversary of the Yellow Submarine movie coming out. So the Fabs are gonna be busy. So if the Stones are gonna do a BB reissue, they should have something good planned. But, keep in mind, Jagger doesn't seem to care about this stuff.

50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet

Listening to the Altamont soundtrack being motivated by a IORR thread I realized how great they were playing there (ins pite of the disaster). It would be a great idea to release a Beggars Banquet deluxe edition with the original album, some outtakes and the Altamont live recording, weouldn't it?

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Rocky Dijon

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shortfatfanny
They should pay for the right to delete this awful Memory Motel version from a planned expanded edition,if this is a serious issue...

If only. Then they could reissue BRIDGES TO BABYLON using the version of "Anybody Seen My Baby" without the Biz Markie sample or the version of "Juiced" before The Dust Brothers shat all over it. The possibilities, while not endless, are at least tantalizing.

True...but Bridges has been reissued already...whereas No Security has been dropped completely so far.
Just wanted to express my thoughts concerning the ruined Memory Motel on this album.
I like the idea of an expanded No Security edition...with or without that horrible version.

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saltoftheearth
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet

Listening to the Altamont soundtrack being motivated by a IORR thread I realized how great they were playing there (ins pite of the disaster). It would be a great idea to release a Beggars Banquet deluxe edition with the original album, some outtakes and the Altamont live recording, weouldn't it?

Of course...although I have to admit that Beggars is linked somehow more to RRC than to Altamont ( which is then linked more to Let It Bleed ).
But that's probably just me...

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shortfatfanny

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saltoftheearth
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet

Listening to the Altamont soundtrack being motivated by a IORR thread I realized how great they were playing there (ins pite of the disaster). It would be a great idea to release a Beggars Banquet deluxe edition with the original album, some outtakes and the Altamont live recording, weouldn't it?

Of course...although I have to admit that Beggars is linked somehow more to RRC than to Altamont ( which is then linked more to Let It Bleed ).
But that's probably just me...

Yeah, but we already got RRC, right? Except for the first two songs which are said to have not been recorded.

Yes, Altamont linked to LET IT BLEED would be appropriate in good and bad ways

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saltoftheearth
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet

Listening to the Altamont soundtrack being motivated by a IORR thread I realized how great they were playing there (ins pite of the disaster). It would be a great idea to release a Beggars Banquet deluxe edition with the original album, some outtakes and the Altamont live recording, weouldn't it?

That would be absolutely great!

Beggar's Banquet and Altamont together, I like it. Great idea!

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tomk

Quote
Gazza

Quote
out of my head
Does anybody know why the El Mocambo ‘77 show has never had an official release ? Now THAT would be a great archive release. I wonder about that one a lot. I have had a bootleg before but it sounded like shit. I understand a few of the tracks from that show on LYL were overdubbed and what not but whatever. They still sound so cool. I wish that show would see an official release with sound quality on par with LYL tracks. Any one have any insight or knowledge as to why this has not seen the light of day ?

The bootleg sounds great to my ears.

Supposedly the first night's tapes were technically unusable. So that just leaves the 5th March show. I would imagine what was released and what has been bootlegged comes from that night. (the band intros certainly do).

Unless theres some technical reason, I'm at a loss as to why this show hasnt been released. Its evident people close to them reads fan forums so they cant have failed to see that this show is a bit of a holy grail for many people.

Then again, considering the fact that they went to Toronto specifically to record material for a live album (despite having shows in the can from 1975-76) and THEN only released four of the songs on a double LP - a release on which they were clearly the standout tracks - makes me wonder if there were indeed technical issues which prevented them adding many more.

According to Barbara Charone's book, they were supposed to play 4-5 nights in Toronto, but Keith's late arrival cut it down to two. Whether that's true or not, who knows? However, if you have 4 nights of shows instead of two, more to choose from, probably.

I think thats correct. It was intended to be five nights. Certainly cut down on the rehearsal time, too. I doubt that whether it ended up being two shows or five would have made much difference to the number of songs performed though.

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shortfatfanny

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saltoftheearth
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet

Listening to the Altamont soundtrack being motivated by a IORR thread I realized how great they were playing there (ins pite of the disaster). It would be a great idea to release a Beggars Banquet deluxe edition with the original album, some outtakes and the Altamont live recording, weouldn't it?

Of course...although I have to admit that Beggars is linked somehow more to RRC than to Altamont ( which is then linked more to Let It Bleed ).
But that's probably just me...

A video extra could include the various JJF promos, the Child of the Moon promo and (if they can unearth it) the NME pollwinners Concert footage. Theres also ample footage of the 'Sympathy' sessions from the Godard movie if they can get around the rights to that.

Even based on whats available on bootlegs alone, they should have no difficulty filling an additional CD of usable outtakes and alternate takes.

From 1968 alone, there are studio recordings in circulation of the following :

Surrey Rehearsals (spring '68) (45 mins or so in lo-fi quality but there may be some of it professional recorded and if so, presumably some may be usable)

Olympic studios spring '68 - Highway Chile, Pay Your Dues,
alternate take of Stray Cat Blues
multiple (mostly) instrumental outtakes of Jigsaw Puzzle
alternate mixes of JJF and Child of the Moon

(There are also two uncirculated tracks listed as "Title 6" and "I'll be Home" in the session logs)

Olympic Studios, May '68
Alternate take and alternate mix of Dear Doctor
alternate takes of Family, No Expectations, Factory Girl, Salt of the earth
alternate mix of Street Fighting Man
Outtake released on Metamorphosis - Family,Downtown Suzie
Circulating outtakes - Blood Red Wine, Hamburger to Go, Still A Fool

Olympic Studios, early June'68
Multiple alternate versions of Sympathy for the Devil

Olympic Studios, late June '68
alternate mixes of Family, Prodigal Son

(There are also three uncirculated tracks listed as "Thief for the Blues", "Power Cut" and "Too Far To Walk" in the session logs)

They also did a recording session in November '68 (just before the album's release) where they recorded YCAGWYW and Memo from Turner. Alternate versions of those could be added to an expanded Beggars Banquet release.

The plus with these unreleased recordings is that unlike most of whats been bootlegged from later years, the material sounds largely finished or almost finished and is generally releasable. So clearly there must be quite a lot from 1968 in their vaults that could be used without having to be doctored.

And then theres the rehearsals and outtakes from Rock n Roll Circus in December


(I used Felix Aeppli's site as a source for this - thanks, Felix - [aeppli.ch])

*sigh. The Brussels Affair is $29. for 2 CD’s. MP3, wth is that, can they please sell it on Apple? I would buy it there. I would buy it on Spotify.
I don’t burn nor flac whatever it really means.

El Mocambo please. I’ve written my sales pitch previously.

.02 cents and that’s all that’s left.

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saltoftheearth
50th anniversary of Beggars Banquet

Listening to the Altamont soundtrack being motivated by a IORR thread I realized how great they were playing there (ins pite of the disaster). It would be a great idea to release a Beggars Banquet deluxe edition with the original album, some outtakes and the Altamont live recording, weouldn't it?

I don't think they will release Altamont while they are all alive. Too many bad memories.

Quote
Gazza

Quote
tomk

Quote
Gazza

Quote
out of my head
Does anybody know why the El Mocambo ‘77 show has never had an official release ? Now THAT would be a great archive release. I wonder about that one a lot. I have had a bootleg before but it sounded like shit. I understand a few of the tracks from that show on LYL were overdubbed and what not but whatever. They still sound so cool. I wish that show would see an official release with sound quality on par with LYL tracks. Any one have any insight or knowledge as to why this has not seen the light of day ?

The bootleg sounds great to my ears.

Supposedly the first night's tapes were technically unusable. So that just leaves the 5th March show. I would imagine what was released and what has been bootlegged comes from that night. (the band intros certainly do).

Unless theres some technical reason, I'm at a loss as to why this show hasnt been released. Its evident people close to them reads fan forums so they cant have failed to see that this show is a bit of a holy grail for many people.

Then again, considering the fact that they went to Toronto specifically to record material for a live album (despite having shows in the can from 1975-76) and THEN only released four of the songs on a double LP - a release on which they were clearly the standout tracks - makes me wonder if there were indeed technical issues which prevented them adding many more.

According to Barbara Charone's book, they were supposed to play 4-5 nights in Toronto, but Keith's late arrival cut it down to two. Whether that's true or not, who knows? However, if you have 4 nights of shows instead of two, more to choose from, probably.

I think thats correct. It was intended to be five nights. Certainly cut down on the rehearsal time, too. I doubt that whether it ended up being two shows or five would have made much difference to the number of songs performed though.

I meant if you had 4-5 nights to choose a better performance, not number of songs.

What's interesting about the whole "Keith's arrest in Toronto" thing is what it did to Led Zeppelin's 1977 tour. The original itinerary had Toronto and Montreal. Then Keith's arrest happened, Plant got laryngitis, so their tour was postponed. When the new dates were announced, Peter Grant took both Canadian cities off the list and were never rescheduled. I think we can figure out why.

BEGGARS BANQUET DELUXE - and probably a LET IT BLEED one - will be the last real option they could make some sort of archive relaese that might gather interest outside the hardest hardcore fan circle. With a clever marketing, it might reach almost a EXILE level interest - and probably The Stones would finally hit number one with that album (the only studio album of theirs never reaching #1 anywhere in the world...) Like Gazza showed, there is interesting material on the vaults.

Now add there a STONES IN EXILE kind of documentary to tell the story of the album - to emphasize the significance of it for them after the 'fiasco' of SATANIC MAJESTIES, and as it turned to be a kind of blueprint for their sound from then on... Miller and their new recording technics - Keith telling the stories of how "Street Fighting Man" was recorded, Mick finally telling the story of its lyrics of changing into final form, the happenings of Paris as a background - Brian's last triumph, the real story of the birth of "Flash" (Bill? I guess not...), "Kennedy" changing into plural while doing "Sympathy", using Godard material there (Godard's involvement being a story of its own)... the whole 'crazy year' of 1968 as a context... The Beatles are always great to do such zeitgeist things about the swingin' 60's (and having a some kind of monopoly in that), but the 'non-loving, aggressive' Stones have a privileged access to that particular 'revolutionary' year of 1968 by hitting creatively their all-time best and giving the best soundtrack for it - and making themselves such heroes of 'counter culture' even Lennon was jealous for... There is a goddamn good story not properly told (utilized) yet there... Soon the hipsters would say 'EXILE? That's old news, man.. it's BEGGARS the cool people dig, you know...'

But but but... There is the eternal tension between Jagger and Klein's club... The both parties are nowadays both in Universal, but I don't know has anything really changed...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-05 10:14 by Doxa.

Beggar Deeeeeluxe...with doco and micko can explain the
I lay traps for troubadours who get killed before
they reach Bombay line ........... Yeah okay lets go Beggars



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rockman
Beggar Deeeeeluxe...with doco and micko can explain the
I lay traps for troubadours who get killed before
they reach Bombay line ...........

Yeah, man. And take a thing like "Prodigal Son"... Discovering and recording that piece - which was not any Muddy or Wolf number, not even a Robert Johnson number, but something only the most purist archeologist folk/delta blues people in America might knowning to exist - was such a deep artistic statement from a commercial pop group that had The Beatles done it, my god we would have lots of speaking heads by the 'beatlelogists' telling us how 'inventive' The Beatles were, and how they 'discovered' and 'saved' the whole dying genre there.

- Doxa

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frankotero
Beggar's Banquet and Altamont together, I like it. Great idea!

What has Altamont to do with Beggars Banquet? Okay they played some songs there, but that's all. There are 2002 shows were they played more from Beggars Banquet.

lots of speaking heads by the 'beatlelogists' telling us how 'inventive' The Beatles were, and how they 'discovered' and 'saved' the whole dying genre

Shit man I just don't read that sorta stuff ....



ROCKMAN

A bit of ---- That's No Way To Get Along / Prodigal info .......



In 2014 Bear Family reissued the Robert Wilkins 1964 recordings ....
The 10 minute Prodigal Son is a must hear .....

Reverend Robert Wilkins -- Prodigal Son Bear -- Family BCD 16629AH



ROCKMAN