I know we have all heard the Ronnie baggings before, but after hearing my fair share of Licks Shows I was quite amazed how bad Ronnie performed. He started that Tour out quite well but deteriorated...which is understandable given his alcohol abuse etc...

Now, after listening to a few shows from the Licks Tour Part #2 (ABB Tour!), he seems to be getting worse!! Is that possible??

I do not know how anyone can keep pretending that Ronnie still plays a good guitar!
He is even worse now than he was on the Licks Tour....which is saying something!!!!

Terrible.

Most of his solos start off in the wrong key!! Now for even poor guitarists just starting out, they can normally start a solo in the correct key. But for a man who has played songs on stage over and over again for years and years it is quite amazing he still stuffs them up.....

I'm sorry if I am sounding like a broken record but this guy's guitar playing sucks!! I wish he was better but he is not.

Esky

You are completely right. I couldn't agree more with you.

I wonder why... listen to 75, 78, 81, 89, 95 and 98 stuff. He never misses a chord, never @#$%& up a bend, never misses a note.

Now I know he's getting older... but it's just strange. I don't know how to describe it... I mean, you listen to him play, and you just hear a load of noise. You wonder how he gets it done, after all those years of great playing.

But even more remarkable is that he @#$%& up the SAME bend every time, and plays in the same wrong key every time. Almost like he WANTS to do it like this.

Don't they listen to their shows afterward? Doesn't Mick or Keith stand up and say "Ronnie you're a nice guy but if you don't improve you're playing you're out of the band"?

It's really sad. You would assume it's caused by his alchohol addiction. But he's always been on alchohol.

I haven't heard any from this tour Esky. I read a review by a friend of mine from the MSG show and he said that Rln was on fire. And this guy is VERY critical. So I was looking forward to seeing him. Last tour I saw him in USA and he was good; then in Europe he sucked.
I really think that Ron for one is through with the Stones. By that I mean that it comes from his end. We always wonder if Keith or Jagger will kick him out. I think he will be around for the remainder. I mean - what a cashcow, right? But it's Ron's heart that just doesn't seem into it anymore. Sured, he says all the right things but he must be jaded about something. His own shows are great. He kniows all the parts; his artwork is on the money if you like that kind of painting. Maybe he is fed up with Keith, the constant insults and no support from him in his quest for sobriety. In a recent writeup where the journalist weas backstage before the show, I read that Ron's dressing room was the quiet oasis.Didn't Ron's place use to be right next door to hell(Keith)? And the party rocked as hard as over there?
I think Ron will keep his gig because he is a Rolling Stone, it's his job, it's where his big loyalties lie. But his primary focus must be on his own music and painting and family and staying clean now.

Very true Reptile, you'd think Mick/Keith would chat to Ronnie after a show and tell him "man your playing sucked, get it right next time"....
It is amazing that he does hit the same bum-notes each show.

Chelsea - I was listening to Ottawa last night and I believe Tumbling Dice solo was awful...I'm pretty sure it was Tumbling Dice, and to think it was a song that Ronnie would have played about 1000 times !!!
Plus, his other solos were none too exciting....if evident!

Keith's lead are nothing to write home about either. Ronnie has always played by feel which I admire but his 58 years old fingers are not they were. Besides if I was him and had to follow Mick Jagger's slide guitar I would be "you know what...screw you guys, you only get back what you give. Since you didn't call me till the end of the recording for ABB so I could put some fills hear and there then I'll play it how I want on tour.

Besides can a 58 or 62 years really play an impressive lead?

It is so sad to hear that Ronnie is still doing a bad job.
I do not want to imagine how it is going to be in Europe.

Yah, I agree with your point, Markdog. They really marginalized Ronnie on ABB, cutting him out of 6 songs. If I were him, I'd be ticked too and probably be uninclined to put in much effort. Everyone seems to be talking about this great Mick-Keith collaboration or Charlie's recovery from cancer, but no one seems to give a d#mn about Ronnie's alcoholism anymore. While the Stones have never been a warm and fuzzy outfit, they could lend him a little more support.

"While the Stones have never been a warm and fuzzy outfit, they could lend him a little more support."

They have given Ronnie very much support - more than most ever would have done....

Ronnie's family as well has give lots off support.... So if he still is in a bad situation, it is basically his only fault......

A few mistakes but,this is getting blown out of proportion.I stood a few feet from him at the railing of the b-stage in East Hartford and what I heard was very far from a beginner or a fool.He looked like he was enjoying himself as well.I'm going to see my fourth concert of this tour and I have not been very disappointed so far.

I glad you can at least hear his playing. For 1/2 the songs on the SW and B2B tours they had Ronnie so low in the mix he might as well have been playing air guitar. Keith was dominating the leads and most did not sound too impressive, too many string bending riffs out of key.

It's only rock and roll...but I like it.

Good points, Markdog and JamesBurton - I agree.
If all people around Ronnie, give him a bashing all the time, like some folks round here, its no @#$%& wonder.
I hope he doesn't read this board, 'cause that would also give him the pips.
After all he is going through some hard changes, I believe.
I don't really care if he misses some notes or chords - its live, you only got one shot, and he's not the only one.
He did do remarkable guitarwork on ABB, not some aprilfool twang.
He really could do with a little more support.

It's all Chaplin from behind the curtain.A Beach Boy out does the RS guitarists at their own game.

Hey Keiths guitar work is not so spot on either...there a garage band now and thats why I love them

All I know is it's easy to criticize but think how lucky we are as Stones fans to STILL be able to see them play! When I see them playing or just see a short segment about them on TV I get just as excited as when I was 12 years old and could not believe what I was hearing. I not sure what it is exactly but it grabbed me and has not let go in 26 years. I've seen every Stone (including Charlie) make mistakes live, but they just smile and keep rocking and having fun with it. It really is ONLY rock and roll music, it can't be taken too seriously. I have an 8 year old daughter who, I could tell was starting to feel the magic of the Stones. On to the next generation!

I have heard 3 boots from this tour. I think Ronnie was very good. Of course noone can understand everything just hearing a few boots, so i read very carefuly the reports and the reviews. Everywhere. A lot of reviewers wrote on flattering terms of Ronie's job. I can't believe that my ears do so big mistakes, i can't believe that so many reporters are not demannding. Seems like some of us want to "kill" Ronnie (if not the whole band), everytime, everywhere...

Ron Wood was better in the 2 shows I attended than Ive heard him in years, perhaps '78 - and friends in NYC (check the reviews on IORR & elsewhere of Giants) also said he's been superb - "in key"? Is that the only criteria? He's doing most of the solos & is very prominent in the mix. I know he faded due to his addiction problems during Licks(EU especially)& has been marginalized w/in the band in recent years, but on stage he's the Ron Wood I've been digging for decades.

Oh, yeh.. "ABB Tour is Licks Tour Part #2"... With 4 new songs + two new covers + some stuff reraly played on Licks Tour + She So Cold and 19th Nervous Breakdown... With the guitars higher on the mix...
Esky i think you are a bit malicious. Tell me my friend, do you find something good and possitive on the Stones? Just ONE thing...

If he doesn't like the way they're treating him he should quit. Not play in the wrong key the whole tour to annoy the Stones and mostly the audience.

It's like working at a deliviring company, and your boss doesn't let you deliver allot of stuff. You're angry, so you start to deliver everything you do get to a wrong adress. Where will this get you? Getting fired. What you would do is deliver everything to the right adress and do it as quick as possible. Then the boss would let me deliver more stuff!

So if I were him, and I didn't like the way they called me in after they recorded everything, I'd do my best on stage hoping they'd let me join them next time!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-17 20:53 by Reptile.

Reptile, i hear (boots) Ronnie "delivering" on stage...

You may like the way he plays, but it's still out of key. That's not a matter of opinion.

Reptile, is it a matter of opinion? Can you cite three specific examples of a song where Ronnie was out of key, along with what key was he in and what key should he have been in?

Reptile, sounds to me like you spend the whole show waiting for Ronnie to screw up instead of enjoying the show. There is always U2.

just read thru quickly and seems like those that have been at the shows apporove of his playing, those that havent seen the band yet, dont....Im looking forward to seeing him....and welcome raggedness- I like it like it yes i do

Markdog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Reptile, sounds to me like you spend the whole
> show waiting for Ronnie to screw up instead of
> enjoying the show. There is always U2.


Hey Markdog you are soooo right!! reptile is totally out of it

Reptile, as Ohnonotyouagain rightly pointed out, although it is not a matter of opinion, it does not mean that you're right about it. Whether the earth is round is not a matter of opinion and yet some people were wrong! As a matter of fact, some said that Keith's solo on ONNYA (the song!) was out of key and to my ears it is not, or from a very narrow definition of 'key'!

I agree that Ronnie must resent being pushed aside on ABB, especially since I think his solo work is much better than Keith's when he plays. Ronnie has his ups and downs, but his slide solos are the remaining exciting features within stones guitar works. I love the ultimate solo on YGMR (album) and was delighted that he extended the idea on RJ.

By the way, the publishing of his autobiography scares me. Wyman's Stone alone was almost a divorce cause from the Stones, leading Mick to introduce him as 'Bill @#$%&' Wyman'. When the side guys tell it from their points of view and cease being infeodated, seems to displease the bosses. Hope this does not happen with Ronnie.

Ronnie did excellent in Chicago. There were a few points when he goofed but for the vast majority of the show he was deadon. At the beginning I thought he looked kinda sloshed but his playing was so good it didnt matter. Not only that they were having FUN onstage! FUN! Of all things to have at a show! I understand the Ronnie bashing to a point, but from what I've heard and seen this tour I think Ronnie is doing pretty damn good. Especially by Ronnie standards.

Markdog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Reptile, sounds to me like you spend the whole
> show waiting for Ronnie to screw up instead of
> enjoying the show. There is always U2.

It's not about me. It's about Ronnie playing false notes! And Ronnie DOES play false notes. Listen to the Shattered solo at Fenway, if you want it precice. Most notes are not in key.

It's really odd, because his slide work is still fantastic.

Fenway was the start of the tour. Do you compare opening night Soldier Field 97 to the rest of the tour??

drake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fenway was the start of the tour. Do you compare
> opening night Soldier Field 97 to the rest of the
> tour??

Come on! After having played Shattered a MILLION times it's not normal to miss the beat and play false note. EVEN on an opening night.

I'm really not bashing Ron as a person, which you're obviously afraid of. It's just that he plays false notes.

U2 also play the songs with a flase note - they even play Vertigo twice to make it correct....

NB - never heard Stones playing Satisfaction twice on the same show