How does keith get the distortion out of the fender twin he uses?

pull volume of the twin to 11 ; )

No detortion pedals at all. He does use an A/B stich striggered by a tecq. In the studio he usually used a 50's twin for a clean tone with a slave amp for distortion. I believe a Champ or Concert. Onstage its just natual over drive from twins or Fender bassmans. I thought could of used a distotion pedal in Can't you here me knockin live. Remeber early fender amps will produce overdrive through high volume

I seriously doubt Keith's ever used a Fender Champ in the studio.
I've never seen a photo, and it certainly doesn't sound like an amp he'd use.
I can't see him using that small of an amp in the studio.
He's had the same sound in the studio for almost 20 years now,
which makes me think he's bereft of any new ideas, sound-wise.
Compare and contrast what he's used over the years.
I wish he would use one. Maybe he could get some new inspiration.
Ron Wood I can see using one, but not Keith.
If anyone has any photos, let us know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-15 06:35 by tomk.

Traditionally, how would you go about getting a nice distortion?

KR: I'd set up that Twin and maybe slave a little Champ. Put it through the both of 'em and then mix. If I'm looking for some kind of distortion, I usually use two amps rather than go for it out of one thing, because I've always found that a really good distortion needs to come from two different places. Obviously it's not true for "Satisfaction," where it's an obvious thing, but you want some distortion and some clarity at the same time where you need it, so I'd rather put it through two amps and overload one of them.

Small amps?

KR: Yeah. Champ or a little Silvertone, a Kay thing. I've got these little relics lying around, all of those weirdo amps. Bump that one up, use the other one for clear, and then you can mix the two in where you want them. It's very rare on a track that you want the same sort of distortion all the way through. I like to be able to play with it, so I can bring one amp up. Put them on separate tracks so you can juice the distortion where you want it. You have the opportunity to play around with it after you've played it, because when you're playing it, you're not going to hear exactly what's going down on the tape. You've got the cans on.

Distortion? No. Overdrive? Yes. He overdrives 1 amp, and mixes it with a clean amp.

But it really is minimal. It's just his playing and the telecaster.

As a matter of fact there is loads of distortion on ABB.

On some trax it could be natural "volume on 11" distortion, but on others it is clearly a processed sound. Don't know if the "processing" is in between guitar and amp (pedal box), is in the amp (therefore no twin) or rather is post-production. Could be: Jagger states that it is all digital recording. For sure this is the case on SOL.



C

I have a hard time with believeing it's 'post-production' digital distortion. That's not what I'm hearing.

Older Fender Champ amps are great little amps, really. They even made them for a while with 'fake snakeskin' vinyl, cool as hell.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

what does it mean to slave...how does it work? thanks...

lets all chip in and by keith a marshall stack for his birthday...

All old tube amps start breaking up if you turn them up loud enough. Most Fender Tweed's break up around 4-5 until about 8, then you're in Marshall like grind. Fender Black Face amps break up later, and Silverface amps hardly break up at all. The break up of an amp is a combination of the volume and the treble knobs. Most tube amp use a dedicated valve for the treble pot. Opening up the treble pot let this tube works harder, hence earlier distortion. With Ampeg amps, the treble knob is crucial in getting the raunch.

Of the few pictures I have seen of 2004 recordings in Paris you could see a Boogie Mark I, several Fender Twin and Deluxe Tweed's, a Cornford amp and one amp I don't recognise, it looks like an old silvertone. Most of these amps gets their overdrive from just turning them up loud enough, but the Boogie and Cornell amp use pre-amp overdrive, which is a complete different thing.

Slaving an amp can mean two things: you have one amp as your main amp, but you slave the signal to some other amps which you also record and later mix in. Slaving can also be that you use a small amp to produce the tone you want, and let another amp amplify this signal to the loudness you want. In 1978 Keith played through a Boogie Mark I, slaved through an Ampeg V4 for enough volume.

Mathijs

Keith uses all kinds of amps in the studio's. On stage it's twins. But in studio, Keith really uses allot. He uses Fenders, Marshalls, Vox's, you name it. He also uses loads of diferrent guitars. What he uses on stage is just the tip of the iceberg.

When Keith played solo here in Argentina in 1992, a friend from Virgin let me get to the rehearsal place where he and the winos were preparing the show. I´ll never forget that day in whole life: November 6th 1992. I do remember seeing two very old Fender Twins with an A/B switch as he always do, but ..... it surprised me to see a tiny white pedal called "Hot Cake". When I asked a tech he told it was a pedal made by a guy in New Zealand called Paul Crowther, but It was a project and it was not on sale as far as he knows. Later on, I found out that the information was very true because a guy who was dating a girl I knwow in NYC was working at Dangerous Music Studios where Mick & Keith pre-produced "Voodoo Lounge" and told again about the "Hot Cake". At this moment this pedal was available by order only and IN some sores in the US (i can recommend "30th street guitars" in NYC). Of course I got one for myself. It´s a marvelous effect that boosts your signal crystal-clear without distorting too much of the sound.
End of my story. Hope it helps.
thanks

In the old days I would just slave a smaller amp cranked up into a larger amp by running a chord directly from one of the input jacks on one channel of the smaller amp, (you need two input jacks on a channel to do this), directly into an input jack of the larger amp, and them set the volume where I wanted it. (I know all the tech people are cringing right now, but, it was the only way you could do it!)

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

I want to buy one of the new Fender 57 Twins...will this get me close? Thanks again...

tomk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I seriously doubt Keith's ever used a Fender Champ
> in the studio.
> I've never seen a photo, and it certainly doesn't
> sound like an amp he'd use.
> I can't see him using that small of an amp in the
> studio.
> He's had the same sound in the studio for almost
> 20 years now,
> which makes me think he's bereft of any new ideas,
> sound-wise.
> Compare and contrast what he's used over the
> years.
> I wish he would use one. Maybe he could get some
> new inspiration.
> Ron Wood I can see using one, but not Keith.
> If anyone has any photos, let us know.
>
>
Hey guy come on do your homework. it's common knwolege that he uses fender Champs
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 09/15/05 06:35 by
> tomk.

LightningFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tomk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I seriously doubt Keith's ever used a Fender
> Champ
> > in the studio.
> > I've never seen a photo, and it certainly
> doesn't
> > sound like an amp he'd use.
> > I can't see him using that small of an amp in
> the
> > studio.
> > He's had the same sound in the studio for
> almost
> > 20 years now,
> > which makes me think he's bereft of any new
> ideas,
> > sound-wise.
> > Compare and contrast what he's used over the
> > years.
> > I wish he would use one. Maybe he could get
> some
> > new inspiration.
> > Ron Wood I can see using one, but not Keith.
> > If anyone has any photos, let us know.
> >
> >
> Hey guy come on do your homework. it's common
> knwolege that he uses fender Champs,

Having played through many Champs myself, it just seems like an amp
he wouldn't use. That's all I was trying to say. Champs (like most Fender amps]
have a pretty recognizable tone, and I just don't hear it.
If anyone has a photo, I'll gladly eat my words for lunch,
no matter how many Guitar World interviews he mentions this in.
If he is using it with another amp for clean/dirty tones,
and that's been his sound for the last few records,
then I think he should junk it and go back to using Mesa's.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With Ampeg amps, the treble
> knob is crucial in getting the raunch.

Unless you have a master volume like my V4 has, not put in by me.
The midrange knob, and the sensitivity switches help to get that raunch, too,
as well as the ultra-hi switch.

> In 1978 Keith played through a Boogie Mark I,
> slaved through an Ampeg V4 for enough volume.

A great tone. That's what I use for important gigs...if my back
is feeling up to it.

No tomk. ANYTHING but going back to those Mesas. God did I hate them. Especially when Ronnie decided to use one too. I think it was the TY tour when their on-stage sound was all Mesas. And Side 3 from LYL reeks of Mesas. But on there at leats there in the clubsetting and they are projecting differently.

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No tomk. ANYTHING but going back to those Mesas.
> God did I hate them. Especially when Ronnie
> decided to use one too. I think it was the TY tour
> when their on-stage sound was all Mesas. And Side
> 3 from LYL reeks of Mesas. But on there at leats
> there in the clubsetting and they are projecting
> differently.

You didn't like 'em? I think the Mesa tone (pretty much from SOme GIrls
to Dirty Work) are great sounds and tones. I'm talking studio now.
Mind you, not everyone sounds great through a Mesa, and lots of people
don't like that amp. I think Brian May used one on Crazy Little Thing Called Love
and said he hated it.
But those Stones' albums are mostly Mesa's. NOw, the sound on the '78 tour
is quite different from the '81 tour. '78 is Mesa and Ampegs
and '81 is Mesa heads through (first) Electro-voice speakers,
then Mesa speakers (Electro-voice making speakers for Mesa,
so it's pretty much the same). AS a guitar player, I think the amp tones on the '78
and '75 tour are the ones I prefer.
The El Mocambo side of LYL is Mesas through Ampegs, like '78 and Saturday Night Live. Horses for courses, as they say... unless he used a Fender Champ
at the El Mocambo!

I have never seen a picture, nor did I ever hear the sound of a Fender Champ on a Stones record.

And to Boogie's: the best ever sound to come out of Keith's guitar is Around and Around from Love You Live, the entire 1978 tour (Handsome Girls) and Keith Richards on the 1993 tour, especially Toronto and Boston 1993. Guess what, he used a Boogie Mark I slaved through either a V4 or Fender Twin ! A Telecaster through a Boogie Mark I or II is the holy grail of guitar sound to me.

Mathijs

Mathijs....I totaly agree with you about the Around and Around tune. I love it, is that the C+ Boogie...are you the guy that plays in that tribute band? What price did you pick yours up for? Thanks

No, Keith's Boogie combo is te Mark I. The Stones bought about 5 Boogie Mark I's in 1975 (so, quite the first batch), and they have stuck to these 5 Boogie's until this day. Keith's very own Boogie mark I have remained the same over the years. In 1981 and 1982 they used the Boogie Mark IIC+ Coloseum heads (that's 180 watts) on stage., and these amps were used for a short period again in 1993.

I own a Boogie Mark IIB, 60 watts with reverb and EQ (you need that to sound like Keith), wooden cabinet with wicker cane front. I bought it three years ago for 1000 euro, say about $1200. I'll say: it's one of the best sounding amps in the world!

Mathijs

Do I go for the Boogie or the Victoria?