OK thanks, I guess you follow those interviews closer than I do. Still just because Keith (or Mick) says it to one interviewer or another, I think time has shown its largely BS that sounds good at the time in many cases. One thing I do think is that the Rolling Stones have made their day to day dealings a mystery to outsiders for a purpose, and any (or most) interviews are engineered to reinforce that concept. I think they rarely come clean to mere interviewers, they consider "need to know" in their dealings with the press and other outsiders.

jb

Kevin Parker is a genius and so is Tame Impala

I wonder is Hairball sitting in his basement,and figure out what more shit can he throw against Jagger this time?This mad man is all over this place

Confused. Was this mix just released?

Quote
Bashlets

Was this mix just released?

On 27-Jul-2017: [www.YouTube.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] .

.... always thought Grip had the potential
for it be a great Stones style track ...
love the rammed tagether vocal/lyric imagery attack ......

Still believe Keith was possibly dealing with
the final months of Anita's life at the time of Grip recording ...



ROCKMAN

I wonder is Hairball sitting in his basement,and figure out what more shit can he throw against Jagger this time?

Shit does he live in a basement ....????
Maybe we could all chip in for a jaded.. faded.. nurse



ROCKMAN

"I'll be in my basement room............."

Dead Flowers - Texas, 1972

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Hairball
Musically sounds pretty good, but would probably be much better without the vocals and silly lyrics.
Wonder what Keith would think of this version - probably not much considering what he thought of the original idea based on what he said to Mick- "This ain't Stones material pal, release it on your own"

And here we go again with your breathless campaign(ing) against the world's most famous frontman...

the campaign is sounding a bit old, against a 78 year old.

Whoa...slow down, Mick's only 77...and how can it be a campaign against him when I love 90% of everything he's ever done with the Stones?
Have you heard the amazing new Ghost Town? Or maybe you were one of the few who didn't like it...if so, shame on you.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Whoa...slow down, Mick's only 77...and how can it be a campaign against him when I love 90% of everything he's ever done with the Stones?
Have you heard the amazing new Ghost Town? Or maybe you were one of the few who didn't like it...if so, shame on you.

Good to see that you finally got over the alleged use of autotune/vocoder on Mick's voice that you complained about in each and every corner of this forum for days, if not weeks!

Be assured that I'm not the only one here who knows the difference between voicing an opinion about something and campaigning against someone.

Perhaps it wasn't the music that irritated Keith but the ridiculous title and lyrics.

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Hairball
Whoa...slow down, Mick's only 77...and how can it be a campaign against him when I love 90% of everything he's ever done with the Stones?
Have you heard the amazing new Ghost Town? Or maybe you were one of the few who didn't like it...if so, shame on you.

Good to see that you finally got over the alleged use of autotune/vocoder on Mick's voice that you complained about in each and every corner of this forum for days, if not weeks!

Be assured that I'm not the only one here who knows the difference between voicing an opinion about something and campaigning against someone.

Alleged? I thought all the experts here confirmed that already in the autotune vs. vocoder debate - sure sounds like something was used, and I think the final verdict was vocoder, though still might be debatable.
And I never said the song was perfect, but it is definitley amazing considering the odd circumstances of it's release, the overall sound quality, and the fact the Stones actually released a new original tune after all these years.
And I believe you're slightly exaggerating about my annoyance with the vocal effects, but maybe you were hearing echoes in your head for days and weeks because my opinion annoyed you so much.
Perhaps you shouldn't take it so personally, step back, and take a deep breath...and another...relax if you can...it's only rock and roll, and we all love the Stones...

Quote
GasLightStreet
Perhaps it wasn't the music that irritated Keith but the ridiculous title and lyrics.

Yeah, definitely could have been.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 05:50 by Hairball.

Quote
Rockman
.... always thought Grip had the potential
for it be a great Stones style track ...
love the rammed tagether vocal/lyric imagery attack ......

Still believe Keith was possibly dealing with
the final months of Anita's life at the time of Grip recording ...

Yeah, me too have always seen it as a pretty typical Stones-style number basically. The Stones have released stuff that has been much obscure along the years...

My way of seeing what Keith meant by saying 'this is not Stones' is that he wasn't talking about the quality or a style of a song in question but instead: how it was done, and what he was supposed to contribute it. That is, what he was offered was a 'deal done' basically - Mick had constructed the backing track and shaped the song, and was just asking Keith to add something there. That didn't sound like The Rolling Stones to him.

Altogether, my picture is Keith generally doen't mind much about 'what kind of song' stylistically or otherwise is, but how they record it in order it to sound 'Stonesy'. If they play whatever together in the studio - fvck, even polka - the result will sound The Rolling Stones. I think that's the point Keith addresses, and it looks like that Mick agrees with him nowadays (or probably always have has).

Seemingly with "Gotta Get A Grip"/"England Lost" Mick was in hurry and determinate - a sudden burst of creativity and a need to say something when the issue (Brexit) was hot- so he was not going to wait endlessly to get the Stones machine properly to go with it (as we, for sure, know they aren't the fastest guys in doing stuff, especially if they start from a scratch...)

Of course, another and a very good possibility, like GasLightStreet suggested, is that Keith opposed the lyrical content of the songs, and didn't feel easy to stand with them. His idea of the Stones seem to be much more 'non-political' than of Mick's. Seemingly, he wasn't comfortable with "Sweet NeoCon" either back in the day.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 09:30 by Doxa.

Quote
Hairball

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Hairball
Whoa...slow down, Mick's only 77...and how can it be a campaign against him when I love 90% of everything he's ever done with the Stones?
Have you heard the amazing new Ghost Town? Or maybe you were one of the few who didn't like it...if so, shame on you.

Good to see that you finally got over the alleged use of autotune/vocoder on Mick's voice that you complained about in each and every corner of this forum for days, if not weeks!

Be assured that I'm not the only one here who knows the difference between voicing an opinion about something and campaigning against someone.

Alleged? I thought all the experts here confirmed that already in the autotune vs. vocoder debate - sure sounds like something was used, and I think the final verdict was vocoder, though still might be debatable.
And I never said the song was perfect, but it is definitley amazing considering the odd circumstances of it's release, the overall sound quality, and the fact the Stones actually released a new original tune after all these years.
And I believe you're slightly exaggerating about my annoyance with the vocal effects, but maybe you were hearing echoes in your head for days and weeks because my opinion annoyed you so much.
Perhaps you shouldn't take it so personally, step back, and take a deep breath...and another...relax if you can...it's only rock and roll, and we all love the Stones...

Quote
GasLightStreet
Perhaps it wasn't the music that irritated Keith but the ridiculous title and lyrics.

Yeah, definitely could have been.

"All the experts" - yeah! "Final verdict" - yeah, absolutely, big deal, big deal. Maybe you should follow your own advice and relax a bit if you can, if only to enjoy the music better than with constant nitpicking.

I for one, I'm just too old to take advices from strangers. Besides, I am relaxed. Totally relaxed. Relaxed as a man can be. So to speak. LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 09:34 by retired_dog.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 09:32 by retired_dog.

I haven't listened this Kevin Parker remix for some time, so it was nice the thread popped up, thank you. Haha, still hear the 'Whole Lotta Love" feel coming through (Zep's been around much lately, haha)...

More and more when I think of this particular Jagger single and what UMG then said of it being an 'experiment' more I think what they meant by that was how the whole package was distributed: mostly online with different videos and re-mixes, some of them almost fundamentally differing from each other. That's the model they have used now with Stones stuff: "Ghost Town", "Criss Cross" and "Scarlet".

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 09:51 by Doxa.

Hey Doxa .....

You mentioned a couple of days ago that you've been in hospital

Here's hoping everything is okay ..... ,

Take Care & Stay Safe ole son .....



ROCKMAN

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Rockman
.... always thought Grip had the potential
for it be a great Stones style track ...
love the rammed tagether vocal/lyric imagery attack ......

Still believe Keith was possibly dealing with
the final months of Anita's life at the time of Grip recording ...

Yeah, me too have always seen it as a pretty typical Stones-style number basically. The Stones have released stuff that has been much obscure along the years...

My way of seeing what Keith meant by saying 'this is not Stones' is that he wasn't talking about the quality or a style of a song in question but instead: how it was done, and what he was supposed to contribute it. That is, what he was offered was a 'deal done' basically - Mick had constructed the backing track and shaped the song, and was just asking Keith to add something there. That didn't sound like The Rolling Stones to him.

Altogether, my picture is Keith generally doen't mind much about 'what kind of song' stylistically or otherwise is, but how they record it in order it to sound 'Stonesy'. If they play whatever together in the studio - fvck, even polka - the result will sound The Rolling Stones. I think that's the point Keith addresses, and it looks like that Mick agrees with him nowadays (or probably always have has).

Seemingly with "Gotta Get A Grip"/"England Lost" Mick was in hurry and determinate - a sudden burst of creativity and a need to say something when the issue (Brexit) was hot- so he was not going to wait endlessly to get the Stones machine properly to go with it (as we, for sure, know they aren't the fastest guys in doing stuff, especially if they start from a scratch...)

Of course, another and a very good possibility, like GasLightStreet suggested, is that Keith opposed the lyrical content of the songs, and didn't feel easy to stand with them. His idea of the Stones seem to be much more 'non-political' than of Mick's. Seemingly, he wasn't comfortable with "Sweet NeoCon" either back in the day.

- Doxa

As we know that remixes can turn a song inside out and upside down, I think it's unsafe territory to believe that the final outcome of GGAG/EL as released by Jagger is identical to the version(s) Keith rejected. What we know is that other Stones members participated and that indeed indicates that these songs were not originally conceived as Jagger solo tracks. In order to catch the moment when Brexit was hot, they could have done the "Ghost Town"-trick: Release them as a Stones single. But was it really Keith who rejected them as Stones-material? That's the official story, of course. But I would not rule out the possibility that the material could have been a bit too adventurous for Universal, like "when this single gets slaughtered by the public, it will be a bad omen for the (sales of) the new album". Of course, record companies and management would never communicate a reasoning like this to the public - the "rejected by Keith"-story does no harm, it's in fact food for thought amongst fans...

Woof Woof !!!!
yeah I can chew on that retired_dog....



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rockman
Hey Doxa .....

You mentioned a couple of days ago that you've been in hospital

Here's hoping everything is okay ..... ,

Take Care & Stay Safe ole son .....

I am rather okay - had a bicicle accident about two weeks ago, spent some time in hospital etc. But back at home now, trying to get easy for upcoming two weeks, but a great opportunity just to listen the Stones and other great shit, man...

Thanks for asking! Still alive and well... (hmm.. need to listen that "Silver Train" version now)

- Doxa

ooooowwww bike stack .... That's no good ....

Okay you rest up and keep Thee Stones flowin' thru ya soul ....

Take Care



ROCKMAN

Quote
retired_dog



As we know that remixes can turn a song inside out and upside down, I think it's unsafe territory to believe that the final outcome of GGAG/EL as released by Jagger is identical to the version(s) Keith rejected. What we know is that other Stones members participated and that indeed indicates that these songs were not originally conceived as Jagger solo tracks. In order to catch the moment when Brexit was hot, they could have done the "Ghost Town"-trick: Release them as a Stones single. But was it really Keith who rejected them as Stones-material? That's the official story, of course. But I would not rule out the possibility that the material could have been a bit too adventurous for Universal, like "when this single gets slaughtered by the public, it will be a bad omen for the (sales of) the new album". Of course, record companies and management would never communicate a reasoning like this to the public - the "rejected by Keith"-story does no harm, it's in fact food for thought amongst fans...

A very, very possible scenario.

If I recall correctly, there was talk that the track itself ("Gotta Get A Grip") was an older track, stemming out of some of their band sessions (for the upcoming album), and Mick just updated the lyrics urgently inspired by the Brexit ... Basically similarly as he/they did with "Ghost Town".

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 11:24 by Doxa.

Imagine the remix Of ‘scarlet’ Kevin Parker would do?

Better than the war on drugs for sure.
At least if it was approached in the same way.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Rockman
Hey Doxa .....

You mentioned a couple of days ago that you've been in hospital

Here's hoping everything is okay ..... ,

Take Care & Stay Safe ole son .....

I am rather okay - had a bicicle accident about two weeks ago, spent some time in hospital etc. But back at home now, trying to get easy for upcoming two weeks, but a great opportunity just to listen the Stones and other great shit, man...

Thanks for asking! Still alive and well... (hmm.. need to listen that "Silver Train" version now)

- Doxa

Good to hear that you're well, Doxa. An old friend of mine suffered a complicated fracture of his hand from a bycicle accident some months ago and he's still dealing with it. Yeah, bikes can be dangerous beasts...

Stay safe and all the best!

Quote
Captainchaos
Imagine the remix Of ‘scarlet’ Kevin Parker would do?

Better than the war on drugs for sure.
At least if it was approached in the same way.

Not so sure that Scarlet is the right kind of material for a Parker GGAG treatment but then I love to get pleasantly surprised...

I never thought Getta Grip was truly adventurous or cutting edge, and/or something that was beyond anything the Stones might have recorded - I just thought it was an average/lackluster tune that might have been better had it been given the FULL Stones treatment vs. the Mick solo treatment - hence the mystery as to why Keith wasn't in to it. Yeah the lyrics might have rubbed him the wrong way (?), but enough to refuse working on it? Maybe, maybe not. And it's a bit farfetched to think that UMG anticipated the possibility that the public would reject the tune, so they send Keith out to do an interview and spin a yarn about telling Mick "this isn't Stones material...". Seems to me that quote was unrehearsed and off the cuff, and I seriously doubt Keith would be in on such an odd scheme to begin with. The way I remember it all is a bit more simple - Keith didnt like it, so Mick went ahead and recorded and released it in with multiple remixes all at once. Universal said it was to be an experiment - not as to the formats, remix's, or the way it was released, but simply as an experiment to see how the public would react - either positively or negatively, but certainly they couldn't predict one way or the other - hence the experiment. I believe it might have been georgelicks or some other connection who presented it this way (it's all buried in the new album thread). If it did well, Universal would have given the green light to Mick (and the Stones) to keep moving forward in this direction, and Keith might have seen the light and had a change of heart regarding some of Micks tunes. But if it did bad - which we all know it did - the brakes would have been slammed on everything as sort of a wake up call, back to the drawing board, and that lead to another delay and another delay which when you think about it still continues to this day. Again, I think Keith was being stubborn for not giving in to Getta Grip, and had he been a bit more open minded, a new album might have been completed long ago. Of course all this is speculation just as much as everybody else's as we really don't know how the machine works, and I could be wrong about everything, but seems the explanation is a bit more simple and obvious than what some of the other speculations have concluded.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Seeing now that this thread has been merged with the original "Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost" thread, I read back a couple pages and found these quotes from Rocky Dijon, 2017:

"These went from potential Stones tracks to a solo single by April and I tend to believe the purpose was still to test the waters by Universal.
We've heard there are similar sounding tracks in the offing. Had this been a big hit, it might have changed the direction of the album".

Along with:

"...if Mick had a hit (w/Getta Grip), it might have been the obvious direction. As it is, I suspect BLUE AND LONESOME
and the direction Keith has mentioned mean sticking to something more traditional and less experimental.


So seems Rocky's ideas, along with various other commentary from others in the know (georgelicks, etc),
probably stuck in my mind as the most likely scenario which is reflected in my post above.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 20:32 by Hairball.

Quote
Hairball
Seeing now that this thread has been merged with the original "Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost" thread, I read back a couple pages and found these quotes from Rocky Dijon, 2017:

"These went from potential Stones tracks to a solo single by April and I tend to believe the purpose was still to test the waters by Universal.
We've heard there are similar sounding tracks in the offing. Had this been a big hit, it might have changed the direction of the album".

Along with:

"...if Mick had a hit (w/Getta Grip), it might have been the obvious direction. As it is, I suspect BLUE AND LONESOME
and the direction Keith has mentioned mean sticking to something more traditional and less experimental.


So seems Rocky's ideas, along with various other commentary from others in the know (georgelicks, etc),
probably stuck in my mind as the most likely scenario which is reflected in my post above.

You're aware that you're basically telling the same as I did, no? Universal trying to test the waters under the "Mick Jagger solo" label and Universal not wanting to put it out as a bona fide Stones single for whatever reason are not exactly miles apart, they're just two different framings of the same story for a decision that neither the Stones nor Universal will ever explain in detail publically.

Just like Keith's public statement could be nothing more than creative framing of this story to give it a more "fan-friendly" spin, as a professional he's more than used to that, or do you really believe he would publically admit that Universal has any say in the Stones creative affairs?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 21:21 by retired_dog.

No, I dont believe Keith would spill the beans on the supposed grip Universal has on the band, nor do I believe Universal would send Keith out to spin a "fan friendly" yarn about telling Mick "this isn't Stones material..." in a negative way, and I seriously doubt Keith would be involved in such an odd scheme to begin with. Again, seems to me his quote was unrehearsed and off the cuff, and said in a random magazine interview in the heat of the moment. It was never repeated, and he never shouted it from the top of a mountain for the world to here - he might have even regretted saying it for all we know. Simply put - Keith didn't like Micks songs, so Mick recorded and decided to release them on his own, while Universal would use them as a gauge to see how well (or how bad) they would do. They ended up failing, Keith might have gained some leverage for the direction of the album (I can even imagine him saying "see Mick I told you they were crap"), while Universal was stuck with two dud Jagger solo tunes and left at a crossroads unsure of what to do with the supposed new Stones album. Again I'm no expert and am only speculating based purely on my own perceptions and what I've read here (and I could be totally wrong), but seems that disruption is still felt today, and will continue to be felt for a long time. Ultimately, we'll probably never know the true story about the disruptions caused by Micks singles, nor will we know the true story regarding the hitting of the wall and the damage caused, but one thing we know for sure - there still is no new Stones album.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-18 00:43 by Hairball.