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Palace Revolution 2000

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TheflyingDutchman

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bigmac7895
While I understand about the overdubs,wasn't it Keith that said he didn't like Taylor's rhythm playing that it was too "chugga chugga" I mean the sound and tone of Taylor's chugga chugga on Rambler as they are quieting down in the middle part sounds a lot like the same rhythm tone and "chugga chugga" parts in Carol and LW. Chugga chugga may not be the right sound or whatever wording Keith used. It's been a long time since I read someone posting about that.

I don't believe it was Keith who talked about Taylor like that. Only a moron would say so, even if it was Keith doing that Taylor overdub anyway, as it sounds like Taylor-lite, compared to the juicy MSG'69 Carol clip I posted:

[www.youtube.com]

Great clip. Its remarkable that at 1:14 they do that same kind of break that everyone loves on offcial version; where there is no lead in between singing, but just the rhythm machine.
Just want to say, somewhere earlier I think I specifically used the "chugga" term. But I mean it 100% as a plus.
There is one subtlety that I notice in the rhtym playing. Taylor will include the 7th; which Keith very rarely does.

I don't know if the clip that I posted was the one that appeared on YaYa's, they did two concerts on one day I believe. The YaYa's version contains overdubs, both rhythm and lead. The rhythm version contains typical Tayloresque fills and even using six strings rhythm guitar during the verses, the timing differs from Keith's rhythm playing. I don't understand why they dubbed it anyway, Taylor sounded great on the original. .Btw, nothing wrong with the "chugga chugga" playing term, homage to good old "Chugga Berry" !

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bigmac7895
So the overdubs that Chris M analyzed and others are speaking to are more than likely vocal and Keith redoing his solo parts on a few songs, plus erasing Taylor's lead on JJF? It appears Taylor's parts are still there on the songs he played rhythm. I remember reading on one song there appears to be 3 parts but I have never heard using good headphones any point on Ya Yas where there is 3 guitars.

No, Keith partially re-did Taylor's rhythm guitars on Little Queenie and Carol. I'm pretty sure he re-did parts of his Carol-solo as well. JJF was at least edited.

Listen to the rhythm guitar that enters on Little Queenie, for instance. The sound is totally different to that of Taylor, as is the playing style. There are more examples, but I don't have time to go through it all here and now.

There are multiple threads here on IORR where there is more info, though.

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DandelionPowderman

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bigmac7895
So the overdubs that Chris M analyzed and others are speaking to are more than likely vocal and Keith redoing his solo parts on a few songs, plus erasing Taylor's lead on JJF? It appears Taylor's parts are still there on the songs he played rhythm. I remember reading on one song there appears to be 3 parts but I have never heard using good headphones any point on Ya Yas where there is 3 guitars.

No, Keith partially re-did Taylor's rhythm guitars on Little Queenie and Carol. I'm pretty sure he re-did parts of his Carol-solo as well. JJF was at least edited.

Listen to the rhythm guitar that enters on Little Queenie, for instance. The sound is totally different to that of Taylor, as is the playing style. There are more examples, but I don't have time to go through it all here and now.

There are multiple threads here on IORR where there is more info, though.

Hmmm...dont think keith did any overdubs on his Carol solo?
JJF? Apart from the vocal its hard to tell..
Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-28 16:29 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-28 16:39 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

And a brand new solo guitar track from Keith as well? Taylor's boogie player sounds somewhat tighter on Ya Yas, too?

Did they cheat us?

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

And a brand new solo guitar track from Keith as well? Taylor's boogie player sounds somewhat tighter on Ya Yas, too?

Did they cheat us?

If there's one guitarist on Carol who corrected himself, it's Keith. But I wouldn't call it cheating.Th only Taylor edit that I hear is the volume and the sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-28 17:09 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

And a brand new solo guitar track from Keith as well? Taylor's boogie player sounds somewhat tighter on Ya Yas, too?

Did they cheat us?

If there's one guitarist on Carol who corrected himself, it's Keith. But I wouldn't call it cheating.

No, I'm just kidding

It's interesting that the tracks on the Ya Yas Deluxe-DVD sound remarkably weaker than on the album. Prodigal Son is a disaster, yet it sounds excellent on the album..

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

And a brand new solo guitar track from Keith as well? Taylor's boogie player sounds somewhat tighter on Ya Yas, too?

Did they cheat us?

If there's one guitarist on Carol who corrected himself, it's Keith. But I wouldn't call it cheating.

No, I'm just kidding

It's interesting that the tracks on the Ya Yas Deluxe-DVD sound remarkably weaker than on the album. Prodigal Son is a disaster, yet it sounds excellent on the album..

Could it be that there have been more edits through the years? I remember the first vinyl at the time, and if I'm not mistaken Bill Wyman played quite a few wrong notes. They are gone.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

And a brand new solo guitar track from Keith as well? Taylor's boogie player sounds somewhat tighter on Ya Yas, too?

Did they cheat us?

If there's one guitarist on Carol who corrected himself, it's Keith. But I wouldn't call it cheating.

No, I'm just kidding

It's interesting that the tracks on the Ya Yas Deluxe-DVD sound remarkably weaker than on the album. Prodigal Son is a disaster, yet it sounds excellent on the album..

Could it be that there have been more edits through the years? I remember the first vinyl at the time, and if I'm not mistaken Bill Wyman played quite a few wrong notes. They are gone.

Keith's guitar is «tuned» on the bonus cut on the album

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Eleanor Rigby


Id like to know where there are guitar overdubs on those 2 songs.

Re Carol: Taylor seems more audible at places on Ya Ya's, and less on others. Both Keith's and Taylor's guitars sound less gritty on it too. God knows who and why they have been messing with the original guitars. Probably they wanted it to be more perfect.

Could also be sound problems/noises etc..

Yep. When you listen to Carol (the raw version) you can hear that Keith and Charlie don't time it together in the beginning-when jagger comes in- A miracle how they fixed it on YaYa's.

With a razor, a pencil and a tape

No, serious, compare it to yaya's then, its almost gone, because Keith corrected it there by playing or editing it on the right place.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the same version. Mick's talking is the same, but there are too many things (Taylor's guitar, too) that don't add up..

I think its the same version because that timing 'error' is still a bit audible on YaYa's.

And a brand new solo guitar track from Keith as well? Taylor's boogie player sounds somewhat tighter on Ya Yas, too?

Did they cheat us?

If there's one guitarist on Carol who corrected himself, it's Keith. But I wouldn't call it cheating.

No, I'm just kidding

It's interesting that the tracks on the Ya Yas Deluxe-DVD sound remarkably weaker than on the album. Prodigal Son is a disaster, yet it sounds excellent on the album..

Could it be that there have been more edits through the years? I remember the first vinyl at the time, and if I'm not mistaken Bill Wyman played quite a few wrong notes. They are gone.

Keith's guitar is «tuned» on the bonus cut on the album

Keith had a track for every single string?. Even something like Pro-tools cannot fix that.

More Keith & Less MT on a Chuck Berry song can only ever be a good thing don't ya think ?

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Spud
More Keith & Less MT on a Chuck Berry song can only ever be a good thing don't ya think ?

I think that MT would agree with you by now.

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TheGreek
Paint it Black you dirty devil

I think it's just 'paint it black, you devil'

And ... i seem to recall they re-used that clip, inserted in in a later day audience vocal before a live track, possibly a b-side from Flashpoint? Maybe I'm delusional!

It's hard to put in words how much i love this album, but I'll try ...

I love this album.

It's by far the best consert album in the catalouge. But I remember when I first heard it, I was a litle dissapointed. I had wached the Gimme Shelter movie several times before, and I was so ready for more. Then it was a bit of a dissapointment to hear the more streemlined J.J.F. with o/d vocals on the refrain , Sympathy without Keith's fuss pedal,
SFM with back up vokals by Keith, and only 10 songs, two(!) from Berry -and without Satisfaction!
It still makes me hunger for more...