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Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: January 7, 2017 21:53

Quote
HMS
Voodoo Lounge IS a killer album if you keep the best songs and add I´m Gonna Drive & Jump On Top Of Me Baby. You can do that also with B2B & VL and it will work fine. Shorten it, those albums are bloated. Only Steel Wheels is a hopeless case, anyway you look at it, all you can get is a 5-track-EP.(and only if you´re in good mood)

You have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, don't you?

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: January 7, 2017 23:47

Quote
retired_dog
You have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, don't you?

Well, you would love to hear some Main-Offender & Wandering-Spirit-songs on VL in order to make it a killer-album. My point is,VL does not need those songs, it contains enough great-very good songs to make it a killer-album without adding songs "from the outside". Add the singles and get rid of all those boring ballads, that´s all there is to be done.

You Got Me Rocking
Love Is Strong
Sparks Will Fly
Jump On Top Of Me
Moon Is Up
Brand New Car
The Worst
I Go Wild
Suck On The Jugular
I´m Gonna Drive
Mean Disposition

A real killer, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-07 23:48 by HMS.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: January 7, 2017 23:52

I must be one of the few that never got into the Who. It all sounds too calculated to me.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 8, 2017 00:23

After Quadrophenia, Townshend's songwriting became more introspective and musically complex, more suited to solo arrangements than for the Who. Listen to the solo version of However Much I Booze:
Link to No Way Out (However Much I Booze): [www.youtube.com]

As for complexity, on Who Are You, Moon couldn't master the intricate jazz timing of Guitra and Pen, so drums were omitted for that track. It seems for later years, from Who By Numbers through It's Hard, it was Entwistle who was contributing the more Who-like songs, the basic hard-driving rock, as if the Ox never forgot what the Who were originally about. A prime example is It's Your Turn, one of the three Entwistle compositions on It's Hard. It sounds like a direct sequel to Quadrophenia, both in sound and spirit: the cafes and arcades are by now closed on the pier, with errant scraps of trash blowing about in the wind, but there's still enough energy there left for one more last chance, last time moped cruise along the cliffs: "Sleep is for fools/Who never see the sun rise/Who never get to live twice".

It isn't exactly so that Townshend saved his best songs for his solo albums, but that most all of his songs were by this point solo material. During the Who Are You sessions Pete brought in the song Empty Glass for the band to try. It was left off the final album:
Link to Who version of Empty Glass: [www.youtube.com]

Likewise, when Pete brought in Rough Boys for the Who to try, Roger refused to sing the line "I want to bite and kiss you".

Another instance is one of the stronger songs from Chinese Eyes, Somebody Saved Me, which Pete brought in for the Face Dances album sessions. The Who version sounds clunky, stilted, and was left off the final album.
Link to Who version of Somebody Saved Me: [www.youtube.com]

The album It's Hard plays well as a complete selection of songs, helped in no small part by the emphatic production of Glyn Johns. Overall, it's like the middle-aged version of their debut My Generation, only with a socially conscious overriding theme in place of the self-styled Mod conceits -- a couple of big hits with a lot of lesser but worthy songs together making for a solid, group effort from start to finish. It's Kenny Jones' best moment on record with the Who.

For those who might not be aware, Athena was originally demoed under the title Theresa, written for actress Theresa Russell.
Link to Pete Townshend demo Theresa: [www.youtube.com]

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 03:11

stonehearted good write up.

Well Who By Numbers is an amazing album. Great breaking through the concept albums and Pete mustering up a deep look into himself, his age, frailties, and self-confessional. I find it to be a beautiful album. Varried, interesting, and some great guitar. Roger as well is in fine form. He really had an amazing vocal run up through Its Hard.

I remember being quite dissappointed with Face Dances. I was mesmerized by Empty Glass and All the Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes. Exquisitly Bored is another one, similar to something that would be comfortable on Who By Numbers. Face Dances suffered from being over produced and some of Pete's natural grit playing sounds too refind. Yet, the years have strangly been kind to that album. It sounds quite layered and interesting now. Some wonderful harmonies on Don't Let Go the Coat and Cache Cache. Roger really, again is in fine voice, and Pete sings his heart out on this album. He was shifting and changing. Trying to be more versatile with his solo work and brinig The Who into something different he didn't feel he could do as well with Keith. And I totally agree about The Ox, he was content with keeping the harder rock edge with his material. The Quite One is a burst of hard as rock, that when I was younger clung to as my old Who, wishing Townshend would have rocked that hard on his material. Yet now, as I said I appreciate why he wrote those songs at that time in his life. Another Tricky Day is some fantastic guitar work!

Its Hard was more accessible with some familiarity. Yet seemded to lose some of its luster after a bit and was a bit boring. Yet, again, I find myself revisiting this album with a different lense. I think it has some elements of all their 70s output. Some prog rock (I've Known no War), pop style ala The Who Sell Out. Athena never did much for me, somewhat a You Better You Bet part II. I really love A Man is a Man, this again would fit quite well on Who By Numbers. Emminance Front is seminal Pete. Hard edged and bitter. This is Exquisitly Bored Pt. II. Both Roger and Kenny Jones griped in the press that Pete saved his best songs for his solo albums. Which is quite lame and whiney. They hitched their ride with Townshend and should be versitile musicians to bring his vision forward. That was always the bargain with Pete and The Who. Roger got it, but at times seemed to feel insecure and needed to flext his tanned muscles and knock Pete out occassionally.

I have no problems now with Face Dances and Its Hard. They are not my usual go toos. Yet when I need a good hit of nostalgia, its a fun ride.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 8, 2017 03:33

Quote
LeonidP


To say Quad has filler shows an incredible ignorance on what it was ... one of the great concept albums of all time, and there is not a single musical note of filler.

Indeed!

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 03:41

Yeah Quadrophenia has no fillers. It is Pete's most complete statements of his vision. It is a brilliant album. One of the best double albums ever made.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 8, 2017 03:49

Quote
whitem8
Yeah Quadrophenia has no fillers. It is Pete's most complete statements of his vision. It is a brilliant album. One of the best double albums ever made.

The writing, performances and emotional power and fragility makes it better than anything by the stones or any other pop/rock band really. eye popping smiley

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 04:21

It is more operatic than Tommy. All of The Who are at their apex as musicians. They are so in sync from years of touring with Tommy and Who's Next. Pete's four themes are so beautiful, and I love how they repeat as part of other songs throughout the album. Not a second of filler on this album. From the sea to the beach to the waves to the walking and whistling on sea shore. Brilliant.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 8, 2017 04:33

thumbs up

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: January 8, 2017 04:43

Quote
HMS
Quote
retired_dog
You have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, don't you?

Well, you would love to hear some Main-Offender & Wandering-Spirit-songs on VL in order to make it a killer-album. My point is,VL does not need those songs, it contains enough great-very good songs to make it a killer-album without adding songs "from the outside". Add the singles and get rid of all those boring ballads, that´s all there is to be done.

You Got Me Rocking
Love Is Strong
Sparks Will Fly
Jump On Top Of Me
Moon Is Up
Brand New Car
The Worst
I Go Wild
Suck On The Jugular
I´m Gonna Drive
Mean Disposition

A real killer, imo.

The only real killer I see in your list is Love Is Strong. The other tracks range from very good to not noteworthy. Simply reducing the number of tracks and bringing in some throwaway b-sides does not do the trick to turn VL into a killer album.

Even if one agrees with you that the above tracklist may be a tad better than the album we actually got the topic was that much better songs were saved for solo albums by Mick and Keith and a combination of the best tracks from MO, WS and VL could have turned VL into a killer album.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 8, 2017 05:29

Quadrophenia, as it was recorded, was such a work of magnificent complexity and so far ahaead of its time that it could only be given a proper live treatment 40 years after. Saw them on the Quadrophenia tour in 2012 -- best live Quadrophenia I've ever heard.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 05:54

I saw that show too, I Washington DC. Fantastic! I am not usually a fan of guest stars playing with them though. Billy Idol was good. Gary Glitter terrible and he should never have toured with them. But that aside it was incredible! They were so tight and the sound was perfect. I was also stunned by the encore with Roger coming out with an acoustic by himself playing a slow blues version of Who are You, and played alone until the first big intro and the curtain went up and the lights powered on the rest of the band for a very powerful opening. Fantastic.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 8, 2017 11:26

Wow, whitem8, you saw a totally different show than I did. No guest stars, just the album Quadro (Boston, November 16), then the greatest hits set after, all electric except for the closer Tea and Theater.

BTW -- I'll give Face Dances another listen today. Lots of great songs and material, but somehow not a great album overall. I think it has to do with songs flowing into one another, how the songs support one another throughout, how they fit together as a theme. There's a lot of lesser songs on those early albums, even on The Who Sell Out. Something, a cohesiveness, is missing with Face Dances, but not with It's Hard -- the album overall really works as a whole. Like Endless Wire; lots of great songs, music, material -- but it's just a Pete Townshend solo album with a revolving door of guest musicians. It doesn't have that elemental flow from start to finish like It's Hard does.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: January 8, 2017 12:22

Quote
stonehearted
Wow, whitem8, you saw a totally different show than I did. No guest stars, just the album Quadro (Boston, November 16), then the greatest hits set after, all electric except for the closer Tea and Theater.

BTW -- I'll give Face Dances another listen today. Lots of great songs and material, but somehow not a great album overall. I think it has to do with songs flowing into one another, how the songs support one another throughout, how they fit together as a theme. There's a lot of lesser songs on those early albums, even on The Who Sell Out. Something, a cohesiveness, is missing with Face Dances, but not with It's Hard -- the album overall really works as a whole. Like Endless Wire; lots of great songs, music, material -- but it's just a Pete Townshend solo album with a revolving door of guest musicians. It doesn't have that elemental flow from start to finish like It's Hard does.

I think whitem8 is thinking about the previous Quadrophenia tour when Entwistle was still alive. He wanted to call the band TED.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: leteyer ()
Date: January 8, 2017 15:15

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Where is Down In The Hole, Send It To Me, She's So Cold, All About You or Dance on Some Girls?

That's right, you won't find that type of music on there. That's half of the album.

These two albums are imo among The Who's weakest, just like DW is for the Stones.

«Sluggish playing», WTF? confused smiley

thumbs upthumbs upthumbs up

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: January 8, 2017 15:34

Face Dances and It's Hard are indeed weak for The Who but...Townshend is such a good writer and The Who such good players, even without Moon that their weakest material is still pretty damn good rock. It's just that their best work is even so much better. Just like how so many Stones albums apart from the Beggars through Exile run can't live up to the Big Four, but they're still very good rock and roll...especially compared to so many other bands that aspire to the rock and roll label. Give me a sub-par Stones album over most other band's output most any day.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-08 15:36 by HonkeyTonkFlash.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 16:27

Yes stonehearted, sorry it was a different tour. It was with The Ox. They toured technically not as The Who, but as Quadrophenia live. It was fantastic.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: January 8, 2017 16:35

Quote
stonehearted
...I'll give Face Dances another listen today. Lots of great songs and material, but somehow not a great album overall...

I never minded Face Dances myself, it's definitely better than It's Hard. It has another great Entwistle song, The Quite One! But still, overall it can't compare, not even remotely, to Who's Next.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 16:59

Yeah there is no way Face Dances comes close to Who's Next. Yet, as I said it is more interesting now. You know there isn't a huge Who catalog to go through. Pete, being the main writer, cranked out as much as he could, but there isn't as much to listen to with them. So it is a nice listen occasionally for something very different. I actually liked Its Hard better back when they came out, but now like them about the same. It's Hard's production is better in my opinion. Not as slick as Face Dances.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: January 8, 2017 20:05

Of course there is no way to compare Face Dances/It´s Hard to Who´s Next. Who´s Next is The Who´s all time masterpiece.

If you always compare every album to the artist´s masterpiece you might easily end up thinking every other album is crap. Compared to SF and LIB most other Stones-albums would seem to be worthless/useless/lame... This kind of comparison only leads to disappointment. It´s Hard is almost as enjoyable as Who´s Next, although it hasn´t it´s quality. Listened to It´s Hard yesterday and again I couldn´t hear anything disappointing. A good solid rock album, I enjoyed it very much.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: JJHMick ()
Date: January 8, 2017 21:21

I think sometimes Pete's sophisticated approach to making records is distracting him from simply making one! It sure would ease him if he's writing about Boy Meets Girl for a start.

If he is too much into the lyrics he might neglect the music as Endless Wire proves which has a lot of Who (musical) citations.
If he is too much into the music he forgets his hit writing ability with Who Are You being the last.

Anyway, the Who were and are my second favorite. When I had only money for one lp to buy as my very first record I bought By Numbers and not It's Only Rock'n'Roll.

Including that lack of productivity during the last decades his solo career shares something with Mick's and Keith's: Continuity would have made people get used to successive releases as band and soloist and any putting down one or the other would have been muted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-08 21:33 by JJHMick.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 8, 2017 21:31

I am one of the few who actually likes Endless Wire. There is some superb writing and playing. Roger's voice is a bit frayed, pre surgery, yet still packs a punch with some emotional vitality.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: January 8, 2017 21:35

Quote
whitem8
I am one of the few who actually likes Endless Wire...

I also like Endless Wire, both the album and especially the song!

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: JJHMick ()
Date: January 8, 2017 21:37

I didn't see them last year bis in 2006 or 2007 when they were in Germany the last time. More a concert than a show despite anything windmill and rope microphone. Incredible ending of the evening with Tea & Theatre!

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: January 8, 2017 21:42

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
whitem8
Yeah Quadrophenia has no fillers. It is Pete's most complete statements of his vision. It is a brilliant album. One of the best double albums ever made.

The writing, performances and emotional power and fragility makes it better than anything by the stones or any other pop/rock band really. eye popping smiley

Wow - that's some statement Phil but I know what you mean.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: January 8, 2017 21:44

Quote
stonehearted
Quadrophenia, as it was recorded, was such a work of magnificent complexity and so far ahaead of its time that it could only be given a proper live treatment 40 years after. Saw them on the Quadrophenia tour in 2012 -- best live Quadrophenia I've ever heard.

I saw them do a truncated version of it at the Sundown Edmonton in December 73 and it was awesome. It made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. And they were so loud the chain in my pockets jangled.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: swimtothemoon ()
Date: January 9, 2017 04:52

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
whitem8
I am one of the few who actually likes Endless Wire...

I also like Endless Wire, both the album and especially the song!

Yes Endless Wire is a very good album. The live versions played during their concerts that tour were good as well. Must be frustrating - always having your
new recordings being compared to your classic rock output such as Who's Next,
Tommy, etc. The new output is still good just different. Hope there will be new
recordings from The Who in the future but the way album sales are today - I'm
not so sure.

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 9, 2017 06:14

Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
His Majesty

The writing, performances and emotional power and fragility makes it better than anything by the stones or any other pop/rock band really. eye popping smiley

Wow - that's some statement Phil but I know what you mean.

Powerful stuff, eh?

I found Quodrophenia at a very young age and it struck and stuck with me, it's not light or generally entertaining though, very much a mood piece. A some what intentional listening choice.

This thread made me revisit it though, it still resonates!

Re: OT The Who - It´s Hard
Posted by: JumpinJimF ()
Date: January 9, 2017 11:47

I played It's Hard a lot when it came out but I rarely play it now.

Listening to it recently I don't think it's such a bad album. The songs at least are pretty strong, the main problem is the 80s production and sound which ruined many an album in that decade.

Quadrophenia on the other hand is sublime...

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