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Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: March 5, 2023 20:35
I know what you mean but that raises a question what "marinate" is supposed to really mean with regard to songs. I could see a demo marinate a few years before the final track is put on tape. Brown Sugar however was recorded in 1969 and just came out a bit later. With SMU the way I understood was that they went into a different reggae-like direction with it that went nowhere but had played the version we know just once in a throwaway manner in 1976. So marinate is an apt mathaphor for that and I suppose it can really help the song
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: March 5, 2023 20:38
Something with Charlie on drums could marinate a good while longer but will still be what it already is I mean
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: March 5, 2023 21:13
Quote
doitywoikQuote
Hairball
Wondering if Stevie Wonder will also be featured as a guest artist on the new album...
I recall a photo of him visiting the Stones in the studio in L.A around the same time Macca was there.
Maybe both Stevie and Macca will play on the same track...a Macca-Wonder-Stones track could be excellent.
Let's see how long it takes until this speculation makes it to the press ... hehe("Rolling Stones insider Hairball revealed that ...") - Who knows, if the press builds up enough pressure they may have to pause the mixing process (or whatever process the album is currently undergoing) for quickly squeezing in a keyboard overdub by Stevie on some track ...
I guess any participation of guests that is/was more significant than a finger snip in the background will receive mention in the promotion at some point.
Be grateful there are no photos or visits to the studio by Springsteen whose unnecessary and out of place grunts and growls would surely taint the new Stones album.
Just listen to what he did to Tumbling Dice on the new live release - he single-handedly ruined it.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: March 5, 2023 21:36
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
It will be interesting to hear what they have come up with. In the early days of recording this album, they said “it has to marinate” in various interviews. The marinating part was many times a good thing for them. Loving Cup, Start Me Up, Brown Sugar etc. All examples of songs that had to spend a few years on the back burner before getting their due. I’m not saying we should expect an album of pure classics, but it’s certainly a good way to do it for this particular band.
There's a fine line between marinating and rotting, though I suppose fermenting could be considered a form of good rot...like a fine aged wine. Just hope things haven't become literally stinking rotten.
There's also the risk that some of the lyrics and/or concepts of the tunes have become obsolete after stewing and marinating for so many years, so hopefully there's no more tunes about lockdown, pandemic, etc.
Whatever the case, throughout this lengthy saga I'm assuming/hoping Keiths "three dynamite riffs" have evolved in to 30 dynamite riffs, while Micks "40 demos" have been revised and edited down to 10- 15 great ones..
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 6, 2023 01:23
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
It will be interesting to hear what they have come up with. In the early days of recording this album, they said “it has to marinate” in various interviews. The marinating part was many times a good thing for them. Loving Cup, Start Me Up, Brown Sugar etc. All examples of songs that had to spend a few years on the back burner before getting their due. I’m not saying we should expect an album of pure classics, but it’s certainly a good way to do it for this particular band.
Yeah, I think likewise. I think some material in their 'recent' albums suffer from a bit hasty decisions. Like they were not really bothered to think if this or that song is actually that strong or worked properly. More like 'this will do for the target in mind', to get enough of okay enough material to meet the deadline, etc. I think in the old days they were more careful and conscious if the material in question was good enough or suitable to be released. Of course, it is another story if this luxury of having seconds thoughts and all the time available will produce significiantly better results. But I am positive about it. I feel that they are trying to avoid certain easy 'Stones-by-numbers' impressions, something I think they could do half-sleep. At least I think - and hope - "Ghost Town", a novel-sounding, fresh piece, but still funnily familiar and 'Stonesy', gives a good indication what they are up to.
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-06 01:37 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: March 6, 2023 13:19
But at the same time they have in mind that if they release an album without a couple of typical "stonesy" rockers, they'll likely disappoint a few people.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 6, 2023 17:43
Quote
Nikkei
I know what you mean but that raises a question what "marinate" is supposed to really mean with regard to songs. I could see a demo marinate a few years before the final track is put on tape. Brown Sugar however was recorded in 1969 and just came out a bit later. With SMU the way I understood was that they went into a different reggae-like direction with it that went nowhere but had played the version we know just once in a throwaway manner in 1976. So marinate is an apt mathaphor for that and I suppose it can really help the song
I think all 'marinate' really means is with time, revisiting the song from a different perspective.
Is it good as is, what changes need to happen, how do we fix that bridge, lyrics, whatever? The first time you write it you have the hook maybe but don't have the ideas immediately to finish it.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 6, 2023 17:54
Quote
Spud
But at the same time they have in mind that if they release an album without a couple of typical "stonesy" rockers, they'll likely disappoint a few people.
True but I don't think that 'typical Stones rockers' need necessarily to be 'Stones-by-numbers' type of things. I mean, if they are able to give some new fresh angle to them or something. Something I found the rockers section of A BIGGER BANG lacking (there were so many of them there).
But it could be that I am asking too much from them (and creating here personal expectations to be disappointed...) So I guess the context is what matters. What is a Stones album without some signature rockers, no matter whatever they like...
- Doxa
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 6, 2023 18:59
Quote
DoxaQuote
Spud
But at the same time they have in mind that if they release an album without a couple of typical "stonesy" rockers, they'll likely disappoint a few people.
True but I don't think that 'typical Stones rockers' need necessarily to be 'Stones-by-numbers' type of things. I mean, if they are able to give some new fresh angle to them or something. Something I found the rockers section of A BIGGER BANG lacking (there were so many of them there).
But it could be that I am asking too much from them (and creating here personal expectations to be disappointed...) So I guess the context is what matters. What is a Stones album without some signature rockers, no matter whatever they like...
- Doxa
Going back one album, what I'd like to see is a slightly less than typical type of Stones rocker, a la "Saint of Me", along side of more interesting 'different' stuff, like "Out of Control". Unfortunately for me, for that album little else is of interest except maybe Thief.
I'm not-so-quietly hoping that when the new album arrives it isn't just a mash of throwaway rockers and ballads. Let's get a blues cut in there like "Back of My Hand" - I know it's not universally loved but I think it's brilliant. A dance/disco track, maybe as the lead single.
I'm not asking for a track-by-track replica of a previous album, but if they look to their best albums, variety is part of the sauce and I'm sure they know that. Country, Blues, Soul, Dance, Reggae, Rock...they should do what they excel at, which is a little bit of everything.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 6, 2023 22:27
Reading all these posts I don't think the Stones can win. First off they're always up against their own legend, which began a downhill slide about 30 years ago. Nothing they've recorded since then really stands up to those earlier efforts. There's a handful of songs that could be album cuts for the earlier Stones.
If they go experimental, people would shake their heads. If they go typical Chuck Berryish rockers, some people will yawn. Albums from the Stones Golden age, which ended with Bill's retirement, were journalistic. They kind of reported on where the group was at that particular point. (The Some Girls album being a prime example). They were more than just a collection of unconnected cuts, which is what the post-Wyman songs have been. (Not saying Bill had anything to do with that, his absence only caused a sonic degradation.)
What are they comfortable writing about at this stage? A Charlie song would be nice, but way too sentimental for them. Ron's operation? Keith's arthritis? Mick's kids with international baby mamas? They might come off silly if they tried to sound like the tough young rockers they used to pose as. That's why Blue and Lonesome really hit the spot. I hope whatever they do reflects their maturity, and wisdom of age.
If they go experimental, people would shake their heads. If they go typical Chuck Berryish rockers, some people will yawn. Albums from the Stones Golden age, which ended with Bill's retirement, were journalistic. They kind of reported on where the group was at that particular point. (The Some Girls album being a prime example). They were more than just a collection of unconnected cuts, which is what the post-Wyman songs have been. (Not saying Bill had anything to do with that, his absence only caused a sonic degradation.)
What are they comfortable writing about at this stage? A Charlie song would be nice, but way too sentimental for them. Ron's operation? Keith's arthritis? Mick's kids with international baby mamas? They might come off silly if they tried to sound like the tough young rockers they used to pose as. That's why Blue and Lonesome really hit the spot. I hope whatever they do reflects their maturity, and wisdom of age.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 6, 2023 23:24
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: March 6, 2023 23:29
Quote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
A Samuel Beckett-outtake? “Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.” Samuel Beckett: Worstward Ho!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-06 23:36 by GetYerAngie.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 6, 2023 23:33
Quote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
A winning argument.
I guess they'll be winning ugly!
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 7, 2023 01:48
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
A winning argument.
I guess they'll be winning ugly!
There sound should be quite 'ugly' by this point. I wonder if Keith's limited ability at this point can become a positive on record? They haven't recorded an album since his Fiji drop, or the arthritis took over. Will the drums have a Stones like presence, or be as ineffectual as the bass has been? If Charlie isn't on all the released new cuts, will it even sound like the Stones? The stage is much more forgiving than the studio. We've never heard Charlie not on a Stones cut, but for two or three Jimmy Miller contributions, a Kenney Jones one off, and Bruce Rowland.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: March 7, 2023 10:32
Quote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
They're most likely not going to win "JJF" or "Gimme Shelter"-style, but I'm pretty confident they will win at least "Ghost Town"-style what will still be marvellous!
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
pftw04
()
Date: March 7, 2023 10:41
I know its harsh. But reality. Thing is somewhere 18 years ago, it was stated Bigger Bang is there last album. And that is why they went back to the roots with just guitars and drum. So a new album if it comes out. But I don't think it will. Maybe 2 or 3 singles like Living in Ghost Town. If they really wanted to release an album it would have been when Charlie Watts was alive. An album without Charlie looks/sounds weird.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 7, 2023 11:28
Quote
24FPSQuote
treaclefingersQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
A winning argument.
I guess they'll be winning ugly!
There sound should be quite 'ugly' by this point. I wonder if Keith's limited ability at this point can become a positive on record? They haven't recorded an album since his Fiji drop, or the arthritis took over. Will the drums have a Stones like presence, or be as ineffectual as the bass has been? If Charlie isn't on all the released new cuts, will it even sound like the Stones? The stage is much more forgiving than the studio. We've never heard Charlie not on a Stones cut, but for two or three Jimmy Miller contributions, a Kenney Jones one off, and Bruce Rowland.
Yes they have
Songs without Charlie:
YCAGWYW
(Half of) Tumbling Dice
Happy
Shine A Light
IORR
Scarlet
Too Rude
Sleep Tonight
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-07 11:37 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Topi
()
Date: March 7, 2023 11:32
Was "Ghost Town" marvellous?
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: March 7, 2023 11:50
Quote
GetYerAngieQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
A Samuel Beckett-outtake? “Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.” Samuel Beckett: Worstward Ho!
Definitely one of the best quotes from Beckett, there's hardly a situation where it wouldn't fit. Another one that comes to mind regarding the present state of the album (and especially our discussions) is from his Mirlitonnades:
En face le pire jusqu’a ce qu’il fasse rire / Facing the worst until it makes you laugh ...
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 7, 2023 18:01
Quote
retired_dogQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
They're most likely not going to win "JJF" or "Gimme Shelter"-style, but I'm pretty confident they will win at least "Ghost Town"-style what will still be marvellous!
If we get anything approaching Easy Sleazy, or actually get that cut, rerecorded by the Stones I will be ecstatic.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 7, 2023 18:05
Quote
pftw04
I know its harsh. But reality. Thing is somewhere 18 years ago, it was stated Bigger Bang is there last album. And that is why they went back to the roots with just guitars and drum. So a new album if it comes out. But I don't think it will. Maybe 2 or 3 singles like Living in Ghost Town. If they really wanted to release an album it would have been when Charlie Watts was alive. An album without Charlie looks/sounds weird.
Well I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've been following pretty closely and have never heard this. Sure it was speculated but I don't think the band ever said that. In fact they've been hinting a lot over the last 7-8 years about being in the studio.
Do you have any reference to the band saying this is their last album.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 7, 2023 20:31
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
24FPSQuote
treaclefingersQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
A winning argument.
I guess they'll be winning ugly!
There sound should be quite 'ugly' by this point. I wonder if Keith's limited ability at this point can become a positive on record? They haven't recorded an album since his Fiji drop, or the arthritis took over. Will the drums have a Stones like presence, or be as ineffectual as the bass has been? If Charlie isn't on all the released new cuts, will it even sound like the Stones? The stage is much more forgiving than the studio. We've never heard Charlie not on a Stones cut, but for two or three Jimmy Miller contributions, a Kenney Jones one off, and Bruce Rowland.
Yes they have
Yes, if you include Blue & Lonesome, in which I can't hear Keith's contribution. That's a Ronnie & Mick album.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 7, 2023 21:11
Quote
24FPSQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
24FPSQuote
treaclefingersQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
A winning argument.
I guess they'll be winning ugly!
There sound should be quite 'ugly' by this point. I wonder if Keith's limited ability at this point can become a positive on record? They haven't recorded an album since his Fiji drop, or the arthritis took over. Will the drums have a Stones like presence, or be as ineffectual as the bass has been? If Charlie isn't on all the released new cuts, will it even sound like the Stones? The stage is much more forgiving than the studio. We've never heard Charlie not on a Stones cut, but for two or three Jimmy Miller contributions, a Kenney Jones one off, and Bruce Rowland.
Yes they have
Yes, if you include Blue & Lonesome, in which I can't hear Keith's contribution. That's a Ronnie & Mick album.
I think a lot of what you are hearing is Keith. The slide on Hoodoo Blues, for instance.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 7, 2023 22:10
24FPS, you have a bad copy of BLUE & LONESOME. My copy contains a hearable Keith Richards.
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
beachbreak
()
Date: March 8, 2023 00:57
Quote
My copy contains a hearable Keith Richards.
Yes, and he did a good job on Crosseyed Heart too!
He's still a wonderful rythymn player and acoustic one.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: March 8, 2023 00:58
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
retired_dogQuote
Doxa
They cannot win, but still they are going to win...
- Doxa
They're most likely not going to win "JJF" or "Gimme Shelter"-style, but I'm pretty confident they will win at least "Ghost Town"-style what will still be marvellous!
If we get anything approaching Easy Sleazy, or actually get that cut, rerecorded by the Stones I will be ecstatic.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: March 8, 2023 02:19
Quote
Doxa
24FPS, you have a bad copy of BLUE & LONESOME. My copy contains a hearable Keith Richards.
- Doxa
that must be the case because he's very audible to me
also out of curiosity can you hear him playing on doom and gloom, one more shot, liagt or the entirety crosseyed heart?
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: March 8, 2023 02:47
Quote
Topi
Was "Ghost Town" marvellous?
All things considered, yes, absolutely.
What more do you expect from the Stones at this stage?
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: March 8, 2023 04:01
Quote
ProfessorWolfQuote
Doxa
24FPS, you have a bad copy of BLUE & LONESOME. My copy contains a hearable Keith Richards.
- Doxa
that must be the case because he's very audible to me
also out of curiosity can you hear him playing on doom and gloom, one more shot, liagt or the entirety crosseyed heart?
Yes, of course that's him on Doom and Gloom. I could barely listen to Crosseyed Heart, it was so predictable. Bill's album was better. At least it was novel. I'll have to listen to B&L closely. All I'm hearing is Ron and Eric in the forefront.
Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: March 8, 2023 10:40
For better or worse, we shouldn't forget that there are three guitar players in the Stones. So whatever the new album will turn out to be like, we can be sure that Mick has his share of duties in the axe department.
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