Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jagiero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 'One song in 8 years'...3 out of 16 songs
> Let's
> > stay serious Mathijs.
> > I agree, there are some Jagger songs on the
> album
> > but not as much as on BTB.
> > Rough Justice: Jagger/Richards
> > Let me down slow: I would say more Richards
> > melody
> > It won't take long; Jagger/Richards
> > Rain fall down: Jagger
> > Streets of love: Jagger
> > Back of my hand: Jagger/Richards
> > Oh no not you again: Jagger/Richards
> > Biggest mistake: Jagger/Richards
> > This place is empty: Richards
> > Laugh, i nearly died: For me a pure Stones
> track
> >
> > Maybe i'm wrong but that's how i hear it.

The fact that its Mick on slide on "Back of my hand" would suggest to me the song is all Jagger. Secondly, the song is so simple that I cant imagine it would take two people to write it

Biggest Mistake has Mick's stamp all over it.

I'm not sure that I'd agree with Mathijs though that Keith wrote so little of the album. They did indicate that they wrote more songs together on this record than usual, so whilst both of them would have brought some of their own ideas to the table, I would think theres a few genuine collaborations too - although I think the bulk of the lyrics on the album were Mick's.

Maybe the songs on Bigger Bang sounds too much Jagger, but Keith did his part.
VL sounds 100% Keith all over it, but 9 songs are Jagger tunes.
I only heard 3 complete songs and all the samples and except SOL and a few others, the rest is 100% Jagger/Richards but with the "Jagger" sound.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


although I think the bulk of
> the lyrics on the album were Mick's.




And when was it any different? He's always written 90% of them

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love to hate
> them, and I hate to admit that I love them.
>
> Mathijs




Get some counseling and then get a life

lucask Wrote:
>
> And when was it any different? He's always
> written 90% of them




Dont agree



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-21 01:52 by Gazza.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont agree



If you're disagreeing about Mick writing 90% of the lyrics, you're disagreeing with fact...Keith comes up with riffs, chords, melodies, lyrical ideas, etc., but Mick writes 90% of the words to those songs...Ruby Tuesday and Gimme Shelter are about the only Mick sung songs where Keith wrote all the music AND WORDS...

its only one guys review on the cd,what about the NEW fans who like stones since
S.WHEELS and think stones are great,so let the fans enjoy the music,if you
dont like the new musicof the stones its o.k but dont be so negative.
STONES have nothing to prove,they are the best.sometimes YOU CANT always get
what you want but if you try you can.A BIGGER BANG IS BRILLIANT AND IT WILL
BE PLAYED ALL OVER THE WORLD,STONES ARE WAY OF LIFE.

It would be pretty boring here is everyone just gave a 10/10 for each song.

- Koen.

When a band has been around for 43 years any new work will always be compared to previous albums/songs.
This is an unfortunate consequence of the longetivity
of the Rolling Stones and it is extremely unfair to compare new songs with their older counterparts.
No matter how hard the Stones may try to emulate their greatest creative songwritting years it is just not possible because of the high standard of songs that exists before.
I have listened to 'A' Bigger Bang in its entirety
over 20 times and the Stones have written an album full of songs that are majestic in connection to the guy's in the year 2005.
Once you have heard the full sounding album in it's entirety one might fully appreciate how really good the
16 songs really are.
It is everyone's right to constructively critise when required but until you have heard the album in full 5/6th/September/05 as the guy's mean't it to be heard please reserve judgement.
There are very few people that have had access to 'A' Bigger Bang in full apart from the 4 songs already available.
For those passing judgment upon 30's segments & poor quality downloads please wait until you have heard the album properly before deciding if it is good,bad or in-different.
43 years of playing , songwriting and playing to sell out audiences has never been achieved before by a Rock & Roll band.
To be able to keep the people happy for most of these years is an art form that only the Stones have been able to achieve.
'A' Bigger bang is an album full of songs that will make Stone's fans happy but there again we have been spoilt over the last 43 years by the quality of songs that the guy's have written & sung.

Ps - Please wait until the CD is released 5/6th September.05 before praising or critising ABB

About this Jagger vs Richards thing and who wrote what: many times have we gotten a dead giveaway keith tune only to find out that it ws all Mick or a strong lyrical hook that could only come from jagger only to find out that it was keith. In the interviews they both are saying repeatedly they wrote it together. So even if one guy writes most of a tune; when it is a total jagger song. If Keuthg throws the title in it can lend a huge inspiration. Lyrically and musiclaly. I mean Keith wrote "Angie". No one knew that for a long time. Keith wrote the title l;ine for "Shattred". It's a total jagger tour de force as far as the rap goes, but keith threw out the title and the inspiartion to let Jagger loose.

The Glimmers must be rollin' on the floor when they read people claiming to know which ones are Mick or Keith songs.....!!!!

Ya gotta love how The Glimmers drip feed us by dropping small snippets of info about certain songs ....take Angie or Keith's gardener Jumpin' Jack Flash


ROCKMAN

a bunch of such snippets are collected here:
[www.timeisonourside.com]

"I don't think people really know or care that much about what really goes on. I don't think people care about the mechanics of songwriting, particularly. So they think, Oh, well, Mick must write all the lyrics, and Keith writes all the tunes, which might have been true 30 years ago, but it really isn't true now. But that doesn't worry me very much. Keith might be underappreciated as a lyric writer. I don't think it worries him."
- Mick Jagger, 1995


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

Keith might be underappreciated as a lyric writer. I don't think it worries him."

Yeah how very true....plus I always get the feeling that Keith's great strength is getting others to excel in what they do...he always plays a foundation role in bringing out the best in others.

ROCKMAN

In 98 Nils Lofgren said Keith is one of the 3 best songwriters in rock 'n roll ever.

lucask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You'll be proven wrong on half of these when the
> interviews come out with the details of the
> songwriting. Most people would've said Rough
> Justice was a Jagger song before they saw Keith's
> "I dreamed it" explanation. Biggest Mistake has
> Keith written all over it and he sings harmony on
> the chorus...Let Me Down Slow sounds like a Keith
> melody and the riff in She Saw Me Coming is Keith

It's been 20 years ago I gave up believing anything Richards has said in interviews. If you believe Keith when he says he "dreamed it" explanation, you're ignorant. Keith hasn't given a decent interview in 10 years time. I only trust my ears, and when I do this all I can say is that this album is 85% Jagger. In fact, from interviews from the last months it is clear that Jagger was 100% in charge of the project. It was all his idea and he had all the songs. BUt just use your ears. It Won't Take Long sounds like a signature Keith riff, but I bet my live that he didn't have anything to do with. Just like Highwire. A signature Keith riff, written and played by Jagger. The lyrics now are 100% Mick, while even on B2B you could here that half the songs had Jagger/Richards lyrics, the other half pure Jagger.

And about going on with my life: we're currently in the process of recording our own CD and touring next year. The music will have nothing to do with Stones music as this is music from the past. I still thoroughly enjoy everything to do with the Stones though -listening to the music, writing reviews of the music, watching them perform on stage, enjoying Jagger, Watts, enjoying Keith's and Wood's sound, checking out the guitars and what more. If you can't stand the fact that I find half the album very mediocre and the other quite good, just don't read it or just don't react.

Mathijs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-21 15:27 by Mathijs.

"If you can't stand the fatc that I find half the album worthless and the other quite good, just don't read it or just don't react."

It is a matter of taste....

Some people like Elton John / Bryan Adams, other think they are a disaster, some people like U2, other can't stand Bono and the music they play today, some people will like your new CD other will say it is garbage / trash......

That's life...

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> It's been 20 years ago I gave up believing
> anything Richards has said in interviews. If you
> believe Keith when he says he "dreamed it"
> explanation, you're ignorant.


To begin with, I'll believe what Keith SAYS over what you THINK anyday...Next, Where did I say that I did believe the "dreamed it" explanation?? I don't know for a fact that he dreamed it anymore than you know for a fact that he DIDN'T....what we do know is that he is the principal writer of the song...we'll know more about the other songs once the interviews start coming out...both Mick and Keith will discuss who came up with the original ideas, riffs, melodies, etc. for the songs...


> It Won't Take Long sounds like a signature Keith
> riff, but I bet my live that he didn't have
> anything to do with. Just like Highwire.


We all know Mick has written some great riffs before...starting with Brown Sugar...It was around that time that he started writing music as well as words...It Won't Take Long does resemble Mother of A Man, so of course, it's possible that Mick came up with it...but it also resembles Lowdown--a Keith riff...we'll find out soon enough...I'll bet the farm that the original idea for half the songs came from Keith


> signature Keith riff, written and played by
> Jagger. The lyrics now are 100% Mick, while even
> on B2B you could here that half the songs had
> Jagger/Richards lyrics, the other half pure
> Jagger.


Mick has written nearly 100% of the lyrics for the songs he sings for over 30 years now...Keith hasn't been a major lyrical contributor since the 60's...when Keith comes up with the original idea (chords, riff, melody, etc.) for a song, he usually just has a title, lyrical phrase, chorus, etc. to go with it...Mick writes the rest of the words and makes a completed song out of it...Mixed Emotions is a perfect example of this...nearly 100% of the lyrics on classics like STICKY FINGERS and SOME GIRLS are Mick's...as for B2B, it's obvious that Mick wrote most of the lyrics for Keith songs like Flip the Switch, Lowdown, and Too Tight....Keith wrote all the lyrics for the three songs that he sings

And finally, you say all the interviews have made it clear that this is Mick's project and that he came up with all the ideas for the album...that's complete BS and you know it...it's all been about the COLLABORATION...Mick and Keith working together on the songs...going out to dinner together....Mick on drums and Keith on bass, etc. etc.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-21 19:14 by lucask.

lucask Wrote:
>
> To begin with, I'll believe what Keith SAYS over
> what you THINK anyday...

Well, I don't. Take last years interview with Guitar Mag. Keith made 90% up, right on the spot. Clearly he couldn't remember a thing, and only repeated the same old muths over and over again.

> Next, Where did I say that
> I did believe the "dreamed it" explanation?? I
> don't know for a fact that he dreamed it anymore
> than you know for a fact that he DIDN'T....what we
> do know is that he is the principal writer of the
> song...

You took the Keith quote as a factual argument. Anyways, what I do know is that only 3 or 4 songs on the new album SOUND like collaborations or typical Keith songs. I have been listening to the Stones for 25 years now, and I think you can quite easily identify each (Jagger and Richards) contributions to songs. Both have their own style, and this style is easily recognisable. Even so, that you can identify Mick doing a "Keith guitar". I am quite certain that the open G guitar on It Won't Take Long is Mick, not Keith. All Keith does is the Berry riffing in the verses, and a small solo at the end, just before Wood takes over.


> Mick has written nearly 100% of the lyrics for the
> songs he sings for over 30 years now...Keith
> hasn't been a major lyrical contributor since the
> 60's...

Well, this just shows you're not full aware of how it works within the Stones. This is again the stupid idea that Mick write the words and Keith the tunes. Absolutely complete bollocks. If you listen to outtakes of the 70's, it becomes clear that all the typical Keith songs have half-finished lyrics, written by Keith. Even typical Jagger songs like When the Whip Comes down started with lyrics by Keith. As a writer, it is virtually impossible to wtite a melody without any words to sing by. And most of the times, these words end up in the final song.

> And finally, you say all the interviews have made
> it clear that this is Mick's project and that he
> came up with all the ideas for the album...that's
> complete BS and you know it...it's all been about
> the COLLABORATION...Mick and Keith working
> together on the songs...going out to dinner
> together....Mick on drums and Keith on bass, etc.
> etc.

The only people so far talking about "Mick and Keith writing together" have been people around the Stones like Chuck Leavell and Don Was. Mick has stated in every interview that it was his project, his ideas, his songs. Mick dind't feel like working for months on an album. Mick had a dozen songs when they started recording. All Keith says are the standard "open the cage, let the tigers out" bullshit.

Mathijs

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------




> Well, this just shows you're not full aware of how
> it works within the Stones. This is again the
> stupid idea that Mick write the words and Keith
> the tunes.

I'm fully aware that it's not that cut and dried....but Mick still writes 90% of the lyrics...Keith used to write 90% of the music in the 60's, but that started to change in the early 70's...Jagger has written the words AND music to some of their biggest songs since then...You Can't Always Get What You Want, Sympathy, Brown Sugar, It's Only R&R, Fool To Cry, Miss You, Undercover, Emotional Rescue, etc. During the past 25 years, Mick has probably written at least 50% of the music...And as he's said many times in interviews, he comes in with songs that are much more complete than Keith's are...Keith comes in with rough musical sketches and his lyrics are very simplistic and minimal....just listen to the Keith songs from the Voodoo Stew/Brew boots....the final songs are dramatically changed lyrically by Jagger--lyrics completely different from the original sketchy, rough draft Keith versions on there




> The only people so far talking about "Mick and
> Keith writing together" have been people around
> the Stones like Chuck Leavell and Don Was. Mick
> has stated in every interview that it was his
> project, his ideas, his songs. Mick dind't feel
> like working for months on an album. Mick had a
> dozen songs when they started recording. All Keith
> says are the standard "open the cage, let the
> tigers out" bullshit.


BS and you know it...you just make stuff up to back up your stupid ideas...name your sources...give me a link to an interview where Mick says it was his project, his ideas, and his songs







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-21 20:48 by lucask.

I just heard "It Won't Take Long" and love it completely. RJ and SOL are fine too...so already I'm sold on the album. "Back of My Hand" is just a simple blues knock-off though...nothing original there. I've heard the rest of the album in 30 second snippets and I can't wait to get it!!!!!!! It will be interesting to get some of the out-takes from this album too.

I agree with Mathjis on all points with the exception of Streets Of Love. I think that song is pretty decent and I'd give it a 6/10.

Very interesting discussion.
About "it won't be long" i hope you'll both agree that it's une putain de bonne chanson (in french to avoid some cabalistic signs)

>> just listen to the Keith songs from the Voodoo Stew/Brew boots....the final songs are dramatically changed lyrically by Jagger--lyrics completely different from the original sketchy, rough draft Keith versions on there <<

just curious: in which of Keith's tracks from the Voodoo sessions do you find the lyrics altered *dramatically* in the versions that were released? just from memory i'd say Love Is Strong is the most altered in the final version, and even that quite firmly retains the idea and imagery and mood that Keith came up with.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

I've just burned a CD using anything we've got from A BIGGER BANG until now - six complete, six as posted some days ago on RocksOff an the rest from the Amazon Clips - if you listen to the "almost" (lol) complete album in its supposed order of tracks.... me, I can only say: it blows my socks off!!!!!!
Sure, something's better or weaker... in anybody's own opinion (I do like "Sweet Neo-Con" f.i.!) but the whole album sounds really great, especially for its "stonesy" feeling and all of the f...ing loud and great guitars!!!!!!!!
For me - of course the best since "Some Girls"!!!!!



Truth is stranger than fiction

stoned greetings
G. The Cock

with sssoul thanks for the tip, great man.
Mathijs it seems dad you are disapointed about the stones, you wait for 8 years on a Bigger Bang, and mabey expected allot about the new album. I could be wrong, but I think what you are missing, I miss that to.
I missed the `drive` in the songs, I can`t explaned it, it`s a feeling, the kind of feeling what i have when i listen to `Too Tight`.
Let me/us know when the cd is coming out, I hope I hear the same drive.

been listenin 2 the new stuff alot 2,,& ill say its a Very Good Album,,very good mixture

Mathijs - piece of advice to you - ignore this ignoramous - he'll eventually get bored and go away....

Mathijs:

"This Place is Empty: I like this song. It has a nice melody and excellent verses. Keith sings quite good, it’s a nice catchy little song. Far better than The Worst, Thru and Thru, You Don’t Have to Mean it. This is the kind of songs that Keith should make a solo album with. Invite some friends and guests, and make a good George Jones-style album. And please include his version of Love Hurts with Norah Jones, that was hauntingly beautiful. 8/10"


I completely agree on the above mentioned. Keith really should get into the studio after this tour and write 10 of these songs. If you think about it , it's kind of strange it didn't happen yet. Since the late 80's he has only written ballads (mainly). I do think he'd be able to pull off such an album.

It's kind of funny too. There are some friends of mine that really love Keiths' ballads (but don't really care for the stones, not really). One actually told me he'd buy such an album instantly!

BTW, This Place Is Empty reminds me of the Canadian Outtakes (77).
And Mathijs... do you know where I can find that version of Love Hurts from the Gram Parsons tribute, aside from the actual DVD? Or is the DVD worth buying anyway?

The DVD "Return To Sin City" is worth every single penny!!!!!



Truth is stranger than fiction

stoned greetings
G. The Cock

Hi Rutger,

if you'd like to hear "Love Hearts" send your email adress and you'll get a mp3!

(your email is hidden on this board, so I can't send it without you giving me your adress or sending me a short mail)



Truth is stranger than fiction

stoned greetings
G. The Cock



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-21 23:55 by G. the Cock.