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A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Matt ()
Date: February 8, 2016 14:22

Ever since "Out of our heads" many Stones recordings have been labelled as stereo even if they were in mono. How come? How can shops, customers etc have accepted this false advertising / labelling? Even the latest remasterings have been labelled as stereo even if all of us knows that there are no stereo masters available for the first three albums. Cassettes and reel to reel tapes were also labelled incorrectly.
What makes it even more confusing is that the compilation albums "Hot Rocks" "More hot rocks" and "Big Hits" have titles marked mono but are in true stereo???I wonder how the record companies have gotten away with it? For me it's the same as a color movie actually is in Black and white?

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: jp.M ()
Date: February 8, 2016 14:26

concerning Stones records it's the big problem since 50 years ......

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Date: February 8, 2016 14:29

Out Of Our Heads was also released in stereo:

«Out of Our Heads is the Rolling Stones' third British album and their fourth in the United States. It was released in 1965 through London Records in the US on 30 July 1965 (in both mono—catalogue number LL3429; and in stereo—PS429), and Decca Records in the UK on 24 September 1965 (mono—LK 4733; stereo—SKL 4733

(From Wikipedia)

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Matt ()
Date: February 8, 2016 14:33

Well. I don't think it's a big problem, but I wonder how the record companies have gotten away with the false advertising / labelling. False advertising normally leads either to fines or having to make corrections

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: February 8, 2016 14:36

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Out Of Our Heads was also released in stereo:

«Out of Our Heads is the Rolling Stones' third British album and their fourth in the United States. It was released in 1965 through London Records in the US on 30 July 1965 (in both mono—catalogue number LL3429; and in stereo—PS429), and Decca Records in the UK on 24 September 1965 (mono—LK 4733; stereo—SKL 4733

(From Wikipedia)

Only released in the terrible sounding "electronically reprocessed stereo".

Wikipedia is to be taken with a large chunk of salt...

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Matt ()
Date: February 8, 2016 14:41

Yes, BUT that is the first in a row of false labellings. These are not stereo. Maybe in electronic stereo then, but today OOOH is in mono, but marked stereo.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Date: February 8, 2016 14:42

Quote
rootsman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Out Of Our Heads was also released in stereo:

«Out of Our Heads is the Rolling Stones' third British album and their fourth in the United States. It was released in 1965 through London Records in the US on 30 July 1965 (in both mono—catalogue number LL3429; and in stereo—PS429), and Decca Records in the UK on 24 September 1965 (mono—LK 4733; stereo—SKL 4733

(From Wikipedia)

Only released in the terrible sounding "electronically reprocessed stereo".

Wikipedia is to be taken with a large chunk of salt...

I didn't say it sounded good smoking smiley

There are examples the other way around as well. The horrible mono fold-down of No Expectations on the Singles Collection set. Brian is centered and totally buried in the mix. So-called mono...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-08 14:43 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: February 8, 2016 15:24

Early Stereo as applied to popular & Jazz recordings was often a bit iffy.
It was often used more as a gimmick or special effect than as a means of recreating a natural soundstage.
You'd have too many instruments and/or voices, [including whole drum kits ! ] pannned fully to the left or right with virtulally nothing the middle .

It was more distracting than anything.... and these records often sound better played back with the mono button pushed in ;^).

Where separate mono mixes were done...these often sounded the best of all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-08 15:53 by Spud.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Date: February 8, 2016 15:33

They used way more time on the mono mixes. The stereo mixes were just mashed together in minutes (and they sounded like that, too) smiling smiley

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: February 8, 2016 15:42

Yup, and thanks for that..it's actually the Mono mixes that is really good even nowadays...One should have knowt that back then ...even ya ya's excisting on Mono/Decca...

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: February 8, 2016 17:14

Quote
Come On
Yup, and thanks for that..it's actually the Mono mixes that is really good even nowadays...One should have knowt that back then ...even ya ya's excisting on Mono/Decca...

Actually GYYYO only exists in Mono on LONDON, - and was only released in a few contries, - Argentina, - Brazil, - and I think Mexico.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Matt ()
Date: February 8, 2016 17:26

But still. This turned out to be a discussion about mono vs stereo, but that is another question. What I find disturbing is the fact that we have been mislead by the false labelling and the fact that the record companies have gotten away with it without any (?) complaints

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: February 8, 2016 18:45

Quote
HenrikBB
Quote
Come On
Yup, and thanks for that..it's actually the Mono mixes that is really good even nowadays...One should have knowt that back then ...even ya ya's excisting on Mono/Decca...

Actually GYYYO only exists in Mono on LONDON, - and was only released in a few contries, - Argentina, - Brazil, - and I think Mexico.

The Mono LIB is killer !

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: jp.M ()
Date: February 8, 2016 22:17

..I remember my deception in sept 1965 when I ordered the original "out of our heads" in Stereo...! (SKL...at last) the record was complete mono !!!?

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: mr_dja ()
Date: February 8, 2016 22:45

Quote
Matt
But still. This turned out to be a discussion about mono vs stereo, but that is another question. What I find disturbing is the fact that we have been mislead by the false labelling and the fact that the record companies have gotten away with it without any (?) complaints

Why would anyone complain? It's a victimless "crime". There IS, after all, sound coming out of both speakers either way. While the "stereo" label implies and is understood to mean that there are differences between the two tracks being sent to the speakers, is that what it actually means linguistically (and more importantly legally)? Maybe all that stereo label means is that sound will come out of both speakers. We need a lawyer to get involved in this conversation. I'm pretty sure there is a burden on a claimant to show the court that they were harmed in some way. Now, if there were originally two versions of a recording and someone had falsely labeled one to look like a different, more valuable/desirable version in an effort to deceive the customer, then I'm pretty sure you'd see a court case or two. As it is, much ado about nothing or at least, more than enough about not all that much. I'm pretty sure that, in a legal setting, there has to be an intent to deceive/mislead for a criminal intent before a court will consider hearing a case.

I'm glad I'm not a lawyer!


Peace,
Mr DJA

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Blueranger ()
Date: February 8, 2016 23:08

Quote
Spud
Quote
HenrikBB
Quote
Come On
Yup, and thanks for that..it's actually the Mono mixes that is really good even nowadays...One should have knowt that back then ...even ya ya's excisting on Mono/Decca...

Actually GYYYO only exists in Mono on LONDON, - and was only released in a few contries, - Argentina, - Brazil, - and I think Mexico.

The Mono LIB is killer !

Shame it's a folddown...

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 8, 2016 23:55

The $$$$$price of printer ink is a BIGGER CRIME



ROCKMAN

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: February 9, 2016 01:00

Quote
Matt
But still. This turned out to be a discussion about mono vs stereo, but that is another question. What I find disturbing is the fact that we have been mislead by the false labelling and the fact that the record companies have gotten away with it without any (?) complaints

I´m not, - either - really sure about what the problem is ? ? ?
It is common knowledge that all pre-Aftermath material suffers from the problems with Mono - Electronically Reprocessed Stereo - and True Stereo . . .

Some early english recordings were only recorded in Mono - while - for instance - all the Chess-recordings were made in True Stereo.

It is true that you can´t always trust the labels, - and especially German Decca has been "a naughty boy" - on the rereleases, - labeling -for instance- No.2
"Stereo" - when the record is Mono !

What goes for UK-Decca and US-London, - the original releases, - is however, that you can trust the labeling !

If marked "FFSS - Full Frequency STEREOPHONIC Sound" - it IS !

- although a great part of it is ERPS !

THAT will become a matter of taste !

The first 5 US-London-albums were ERPS´ed with the very dubious technique - removing the treble from one channel, - the bass from the other !

But if you go to "Big Hits, - High Tide and Green Grass" - UK, - Decca 1966, -
with 9 songs in ERPS, - you will find them very good made !

This improvement of the ERPS-technique carried on, - with the highligt
"No Stone Unturned" - Decca 1973 -
with ERPS-productions that are brilliant ! ! ! - Very dynamic ! - and
a lot of "swung" !
I REALLY don´t understand why this album wasn´t CD-released !

From a collectors point of view, - I think this early period is very
interesting ! - and I don´t feel "fooled" - in any way !

I mean, - who is really to blame ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-09 01:16 by HenrikBB.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: February 9, 2016 01:10

I mean, - who is really to blame ?

Your other ear....

__________________________

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: February 9, 2016 10:00

The biggest disappointment for me was the mono version of We love you (and also Paint it, black on THE LONDON YEARS where it is stated taht everything was mastered from the original master tapes. It is downright depressing to listen to the former song which is so much based on stereo effects.

In that respect, the Stones have never done much good in their publishing policy.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Matt ()
Date: February 9, 2016 10:29

Many interesting point of views. I don't consider myself a victim, would never take this to court or involve a lawyer,BUT in a world where misleading / false information of any kind can lead to big problems for companies I find it strange that the record companies still can label a record as stereo and vice versa when it is not.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Matt ()
Date: February 9, 2016 10:31

Have you noticed that even if you play a mono recording the sound will still come from both speakers. However in both the mono case and the false stereo case the sound in both speakers is the same.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: February 9, 2016 10:44

Quote
Blueranger
Quote
Spud
Quote
HenrikBB
Quote
Come On
Yup, and thanks for that..it's actually the Mono mixes that is really good even nowadays...One should have knowt that back then ...even ya ya's excisting on Mono/Decca...

Actually GYYYO only exists in Mono on LONDON, - and was only released in a few contries, - Argentina, - Brazil, - and I think Mexico.

The Mono LIB is killer !

Shame it's a folddown...

Still sounds good. The Stereo is fine too though.

Technical considerations and production values asside...

...there's maybe an argument that the nature of the Stones' sound is best suited to being presented as one big ball of noise ;^)

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: February 9, 2016 10:47

Quote
Matt
Have you noticed that even if you play a mono recording the sound will still come from both speakers. However in both the mono case and the false stereo case the sound in both speakers is the same.

Yup, Mono is Always false Stereo and vice versa...I have much more trouble with false Music coming out of my speakers...

2 1 2 0

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Date: February 9, 2016 11:33

Quote
Matt
Have you noticed that even if you play a mono recording the sound will still come from both speakers. However in both the mono case and the false stereo case the sound in both speakers is the same.

Yes..

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Date: February 9, 2016 11:36

Quote
Spud
Quote
Blueranger
Quote
Spud
Quote
HenrikBB
Quote
Come On
Yup, and thanks for that..it's actually the Mono mixes that is really good even nowadays...One should have knowt that back then ...even ya ya's excisting on Mono/Decca...

Actually GYYYO only exists in Mono on LONDON, - and was only released in a few contries, - Argentina, - Brazil, - and I think Mexico.

The Mono LIB is killer !

Shame it's a folddown...

Still sounds good. The Stereo is fine too though.

Technical considerations and production values asside...

...there's maybe an argument that the nature of the Stones' sound is best suited to being presented as one big ball of noise ;^)

The only song that benefits from mono treatment is LIB, imo. Mainly, because it's partially mixed as the old 60s numbers: with the drums in one speaker and most of the music in the other speaker. It stands out on the stereo version of the album because of this, though, so it's all about aquired taste.

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: February 9, 2016 13:45

Quote
DandelionPowderman

The only song that benefits from mono treatment is LIB, imo. Mainly, because it's partially mixed as the old 60s numbers: with the drums in one speaker and most of the music in the other speaker. It stands out on the stereo version of the album because of this, though, so it's all about aquired taste.

That drums on one speaker thing is certainly annoying.
A good example of that dodgy prcatice is that Blues Jam at Chess album by Fleetwood Mac. [Later re-titled Blues Jam in Chicago ]

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: HenrikBB ()
Date: February 9, 2016 22:21

Quote
saltoftheearth
The biggest disappointment for me was the mono version of We love you (and also Paint it, black on THE LONDON YEARS where it is stated taht everything was mastered from the original master tapes. It is downright depressing to listen to the former song which is so much based on stereo effects.

In that respect, the Stones have never done much good in their publishing policy.

I sure agree, that those two songs are fantastic in Stereo !

But actually the tripple-album is called "SINGLES COLLECTION - The London Years"
- and those 7" from the sixties were in MONO !!!

So that they were made from the original mater-tapes, - might very well be true !
- but simply made from the Mono-mixes

Re: A question about stereo / mono
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: February 9, 2016 22:50

As a kid of 10 years or so I really enjoyed the stereo sample LP we had at home, still remember all the samples ...here are two of them....

[www.youtube.com]

__________________________



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