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Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 5, 2023 16:34

Hell, the band Train copied their name off the blues guys!

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: July 5, 2023 17:18

Quote
Topi
Hell, the band Train copied their name off the blues guys!

others took their name from a Muddy Waters song…

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheBluesHadaBaby ()
Date: July 5, 2023 19:02

Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

I agree the song's a stinker, but that lyric's a gem. I've wondered before if the song got included on the album only because they couldn't bear to not put out one of his greatest lines.

A Worst of Springsteen song list would be long, partly because he's written one to two thousand when you include all the unreleased ones that hardcore fans have dredged up. And partly because it all has to come from him alone. He's so controlling and possessive of his music he won't share songwriting with anybody.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: July 5, 2023 19:09

Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: July 5, 2023 21:10

Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Conversely, I love Bobby Jean! His farewell to Miami Steve.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: yorkshirestone ()
Date: July 5, 2023 23:40

Quote
DGA35
Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Conversely, I love Bobby Jean! His farewell to Miami Steve.

Each to their own - born in the USA my favourite Bruce album and in my top ten albums by anyone - all killer no filler to my ears- first album I bought aged ten in 1984

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: bobo ()
Date: July 6, 2023 01:54

Quote
yorkshirestone
Quote
DGA35
Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Conversely, I love Bobby Jean! His farewell to Miami Steve.

Each to their own - born in the USA my favourite Bruce album and in my top ten albums by anyone - all killer no filler to my ears- first album I bought aged ten in 1984

Could easily been a double album, still no fillers.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheBluesHadaBaby ()
Date: July 6, 2023 03:10

Quote
crholmstrom
Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Its over-earnest sentimentality does spill over into sappiness, but I've always been able to accept it. It's not one of his songs that outright annoys me.

I've also found that song more interesting historically in the past few months, when I finally learned about the huge influence on Springsteen's music that resulted from his first very serious relationship, 1971-1975 with Diane Lozito, and from her finally leaving him for good. I find the echoes of that very unsettling break-up for him in many Springsteen songs now that I think I'm starting to understand it, and I look at the chronology of his prolific 1970s songwriting a little more closely.

Yes, Bobby Jean (1984) was precipitated by Steve quitting the band... in 1982(?). That was the song's proximate inspiration. Steve is the one Bruce knew since high school, since they were both 16. But "Bobby Jean," the song's antagonist, looks to pretty clearly be a mash-up of Steve and Diane Lozito.

Diane's... Janey/Sandy/Rosalita/"The One"/Terrie's... mother always disapproved of Bruce's relationship with her daughter. She would have been very justified, too, if Peter Carlin (2012) is correct and Diane was only 16 that soft infested summer of 1971 when Bruce "and Terrie became friends." Bruce was 21 that Spirit In The Night August when he met and moved in on Wild Billy's girlfriend Crazy Janey, and turned 22 as he edged Bill out and started dating Janey/ Diane. Before Carlin interviewed Diane and published his "Bruce" bio in 2012, however, it was Peter Knobler who revealed Diane to the world (including to Carlin) in a 2008 article. Doing the math from her age given in that article, Diane's 1971 age would have been about 18. As it stands, I presently don't know which age is correct. But I will say I could understand Diane fudging her circa 1971 age higher now, in the 21st century, if that is what she did.

All of this goes to "Rosalita's" mother and father's vehement opposition to Bruce's relationship with their daughter. Bruce was pushing for Diane to live with him. The Lozitos' resistance was about him being shabby, never having had a job, and living hand-to-mouth, yes. Diane worked; Bruce made music. Was their refusal about her age, too? We don't know yet, but this will get answered at some point.

Diane lived with Bruce 1972-1974. She got increasingly fed up with his heavy-handed control of her life, his insistence that she stay as his girlfriend in the shadows, and that she subordinate her life to his. I'm deducing here but I would imagine infidelity on his part might have been a point of contention as well. The poetic street Romeo seems to have cheated on both wives and every girlfriend we know about.

Diane would flee the apartment they shared. (Knobler, btw, Crawdaddy's editor at the time, had visited with the couple there in December 1972, during their first and probably happiest year of living together.) Bruce would track her down, sometimes with help from local Jersey fans & allies, and argue, coax, and wheedle her back. When she finally left for the last time it was while he was away. On returning to their empty apartment, Bruce went from there to Mrs. Lozito's house (her parents were divorced) looking for her. Diane's mother told him (and was happy to finally be able to, I'd wager) that she wasn't there, but that she'd left for good and there was no stopping it.

In the midst of becoming a major rock star at the time, while also in love with Diane, the man was NOT happy about this. He was a rock n roll poet, a dynamic, creative, romantic figure in tight jeans. Excited, worshipful little girlies lined the front of his stages moving to his primal beats and passionate words. Rambling man Bruce left lots of women. They did not leave him. Who's the boss here, anyway? As far as I can tell, Diane Lozito was the girl he most deeply loved in his life who did leave him, instead of vice versa.

I don't think he ever really forgave her. It's possible his ego won't let him.

At the time, out of hurt, I presume, he appears to have retaliated by quickly commencing to re-write his songwriting history, presenting his major songs as NOT inspired by Diane. At all. He's acted as though he's been out to obscure their time together and deny her any place in his music. Whereas in fact every show he played 1972-1977 was very heavily loaded with "Diane" songs.

I just read a brucebase transcription of one of his spoken intros to Rosalita he was telling in 1976. He related that the upcoming song sounds joyful and playing it did used to always make him happy, too. But that it didn't anymore. It'd become a sad song for him, because the girl he wrote it about has left him. That much was all true. But from there in his intro Bruce started dissembling. Confabulating. Changing the real story. And why not? It's his song, right? And this is all just performance art anyway, right? He begins describing the Rosalita girl as having been a high school girlfriend. And there does seem to have really been an earlier girlfriend, in h.s., whose parents did also hate him (what parents wouldn't?), and she did also dump him -- after he cheated on her. Such a girl did exist -- but in the summer of 1968. Bruce's graduation day he skipped the ceremony, took a bus into NYC, met and had sex with another girl, and his h.s. girlfriend promptly ditched him for it. But that well-earned dumping was in 1968. He wrote Rosalita while living with (as well as about) Diane Rose Lozito 1972-1974. The h.s. girlfriend could not possibly have turned the joy Bruce felt singing Rosalita suddenly into sadnsss by dumping him in 1968 because the song didn't exist in 1968.

Everybody else in E Street Band also knows Rosalita was written about Diane, anyway. In 1976 Bruce was just revising his 1970s songwriting history to write a woman almost entirely out of it.

And Rosie's just one song. Bruce wrote a bunch of songs for/about her. Then she broke his heart; he blames her for that. And I hated you when you went away.... And apparently he's taken all of those songs back. They can't be "hers" anymore,.. can't be about her anymore.

I can't see where he's ever stopped writing his far and away most important muse for his greatest music officially out of his history. Even while he also has spells when he jags back the other way and writes a Ties That Bind, Fade Away, Drive All Night, Stolen Car, or Bobby Jean lament or wail of longing or pain that does hark back to her. Don't ask him to acknowledge that, though. He won't. But do look at his intervening girlfriends and try to come up with who else all of that could reasonably be about.

Bruce seems, still, to me, to be trying to take away from Diane Lozito what her huge place had been in his life and his music. In his 2016 autobiography she doesn't even get a mention by name, that I've found, anyway, and he again omitted her as being the inspiration for any of his songs. She is barely referred to even indirectly, and is demoted to one of many unnamed girls he knew and mixed all up together to write what he says are fictional songs. He has purged from his musical legacy by far the biggest muse of his career... and someone I might argue was the biggest muse ever in all of rock n roll.

Why? Well, to counterpunch. She left and wouldn't come back. Everybody hates being dumped by someone they truly love. But maybe more importantly, Bruce Springsteen has always been all about Bruce Springsteen. He requires total control. He shares credit for his accomplishments with no one. And especially not with the woman he deeply loved yet who had the audacity to leave him.

This kind of narcissism is, of course, quite common in great artists in all fields. It always has been, and in great male artists in particular. Women exist to orbit them and support their greatness. Muses are disposable. Picasso, anyone?

Yet I myself am still spending $900 on the guy in 2023 to experience his undeniably great rock n roll shows twice, for whatever that says. Most great creators are loaded with character flaws. Springsteen's not out of the mold at all.

This is my read, so far, on all this. I'm sure an army of hardcore Bruce acolytes and defenders must have extremely and passionately different interpretations. That's natural, and is fine. For the same reason I certainly don't expect Diane Lozito to confirm what I just wrote, either. Bruce the global icon gets the final word on it all. Diane was smart enough to get out in 1975. I'm sure she's also smart enough to know how she'd be mauled in media and social media if she ever came to be seen as an ex of Bruce's challenging him.

Bruce and Diane, though, I do promise you will be a fat book and then a movie or mini-series in another ten to thirty years. Such stories, of "the women behind the 'great men'" always get addressed in depth eventually.


This, Bobby Jean's operatic backstory, is a main reason it's an interesting song to me.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: July 6, 2023 14:34

Great post, The Blues. I learned much from it.

Just one thing, - and you may be right about Diane - Pattie Boyd might be the biggest muse in music history (Something, Layla, Wonderful Tonight, etc.). Besides George and Eric, she appears to have had flings with Jimmy Page and our boy, Ronnie Wood.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: July 6, 2023 14:46

Quote
yorkshirestone
Quote
DGA35
Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Conversely, I love Bobby Jean! His farewell to Miami Steve.

Each to their own - born in the USA my favourite Bruce album and in my top ten albums by anyone - all killer no filler to my ears- first album I bought aged ten in 1984

I'm pretty sure I'm a fair bit older than you. I saw 2 epic shows (1 theater & 1 small arena) in 1978 & Darkness was the first album i bought was in high school. I was 2 almost as epic shows on the original River tour in not too huge arenas. Then he got huge. I still like him & enjoyed the show I saw this tour but the 2016 River show was better. We got a doozy in Seattle. Almost 4 hours, pretty much all reguests for the last 2 hours.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: yorkshirestone ()
Date: July 6, 2023 17:52

Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
yorkshirestone
Quote
DGA35
Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
Elmo Lewis
IMHO, Working On The Highway is one of his worst songs (and, yes, there are some other bad ones, too).

Born in the USA is far from my favorite Bruce record. The on that grates on my nerves is Bobby Jean.

Conversely, I love Bobby Jean! His farewell to Miami Steve.

Each to their own - born in the USA my favourite Bruce album and in my top ten albums by anyone - all killer no filler to my ears- first album I bought aged ten in 1984

I'm pretty sure I'm a fair bit older than you. I saw 2 epic shows (1 theater & 1 small arena) in 1978 & Darkness was the first album i bought was in high school. I was 2 almost as epic shows on the original River tour in not too huge arenas. Then he got huge. I still like him & enjoyed the show I saw this tour but the 2016 River show was better. We got a doozy in Seattle. Almost 4 hours, pretty much all reguests for the last 2 hours.

Thanks (I’m 49) Sounds great and I love Darkness too. Saw the river tour in Netherlands, feel we are missing out on too many river songs this time. I caught this tour in Paris (BST clashes with a wedding I’m at) and got to say I really enjoyed it - joyful nearly 3 hours show- slight gripe re not much from the river, but so glad we made the effort

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 6, 2023 18:11

Have fun in Hyde Park tonight! At least wickerman is going.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 7, 2023 09:13

Hyde Park #1 setlist. No surprises. Get rid of the stairs, Bruce - another fall!

Start time - 7:07pm End time - 10:00pm

Setlist -

1. No Surrender
2. Ghosts
3. Prove It All Night
4. Letter To You
5. The Promised Land
6. Out In The Street
7. Darlington County
8. Working On The Highway
9. Kitty's Back
10. Nightshift
11. Mary's Place
12. My Hometown
13. The River
14. Last Man Standing
15. Backstreets
16. Because The Night
17. She's The One
18. Wrecking Ball
19. The Rising
20. Badlands
21. Thunder Road
22. Born in the U.S.A.
23. Born To Run
24. Bobby Jean
25. Glory Days
26. Dancing In The Dark
27. Tenth Avenue Freeze Out
28. I'll See You In My Dreams

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: July 7, 2023 14:35

A few videos from last night's Hyde Park show.
















Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 8, 2023 20:20

Greetings from Hyde Park!

Showtime in 50 minutes. Got here after the rain stopped. Missed James Bay but saw The Chicks.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 9, 2023 03:11

I think he changed five songs from night #1.

Rare that both Thunder Road and BITUSA were omitted at a show in Europe.

Despite some rain showers, a real fun night out! Exit from Hyde Park was surprisingly smooth as well. I guess it helped to know which song would be the last...

They've still got it, for sure.

On to Copenhagen on Monday. One more full day to spend in London. It's been a great trip to the UK. Met Gazza in Belfast last Sunday!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-09 03:24 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheBluesHadaBaby ()
Date: July 10, 2023 05:13

Quote
Silver Dagger
A few videos from last night's Hyde Park show.




...

Thanks!

Since I bought my first Springsteen album in 1975 -- sadly they released it only after he'd played Norfolk that year, so I hadn't caught on yet and missed him -- Thunder Road has always been my favorite Springsteen song.

But to those for whom BITUSA was your coming-of-age Springsteen album, yes, it is great, too. I was 20 in 1975. One's age when hearing music, a song or album, definitely is a huge factor in what sticks for you the most strongly and the longest throughout one's life.

****
I'm down in Virginia
with your Cousin Lou

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheBluesHadaBaby ()
Date: July 10, 2023 05:33

In the what's-your-next-concert? thread I just posted my upcoming list... preceded by this report on a recent one. This part more properly belongs here, though, so I'm pasting it in:


Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes were awesome. We were their last stop on a tour before they headed home. It was a perfect way to enjoy his raucous show: from a bar seat only 25 feet away.

Johnny reminded us how he lived in Richmond for awhile in the early 1970s, back when here and back home were the only places that the Jersey shore rockers, i.e. him, Springsteen, and SVZ, could draw crowds and earn a buck. VCU is in a cool part of town and has a big, highly rated art achool. Art schools and rock n roll have always mixed well. That's the simple answer to the supposed head-scratcher of why Richmond was the only place outside of North Jersey to totally embrace Springsteen 1969 - 1972 as he was struggling to get established.

Bruce, whether fronting Child, Steel Mill, Dr Zoom, or the BS Band just really struck a chord, literally, with the freaky art school kids down in the Fan district [of Richmond], and they adopted him.

[I was in high school in Virginia Beach 1969-1972 myself, so entirely missed all of those very early Springsteen shows that were happening up here. Didn't know the guy existed yet. (But, oh, my 1972 Rolling Stones Norfolk Scope concert!!!)]

****
I'm down in Virginia
with your Cousin Lou

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 11, 2023 14:31

Copenhagen tonight. Roof closed, so it's basically an indoor show winking smiley

Weather's not too bad, a little cloudy and a nice breeze. Lots of Springsteen shirts around town.

I'll be at the back of the pit in a Wonder Bar shirt.

Any other IORRians at the Copenhagen shows?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-11 16:48 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: superglen ()
Date: July 11, 2023 17:06

Quote
Topi
I think he changed five songs from night #1.

Rare that both Thunder Road and BITUSA were omitted at a show in Europe.

/quote]

the river also omitted

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: jackflash27 ()
Date: July 11, 2023 22:14

Saw Bruce on Hyde Park this weekend. First timer for me. Good show, but I simply miss the spark in his music. It's all a bit too 'happy' for me. A lot of 'Come on Steves', and 'Lai-lai-lai's'. Also Bruce does a bit too much his best to keep up with the 'tough guy' image (ripping his shirt open for instance).
But I have to admit: the guy delivers. He's very passionate and gives all he has. Respect for keeping the energy level high for almost 3 hours. There is not a lot you can hate about him. I can understand he has a large fan base, his music is very straight forward rock, he keeps everybody happy. Glad to have seen him, and had a good time, but one time is enough for me.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: BowieStone ()
Date: July 12, 2023 00:06

Saw him too this weekend. Also not the biggest fan. To me he’s one of the great enigmas of popular music: never understood why he became so big. But I enjoy quite a few of his albums… even some later ones.

Hyde Park was good, but he’s not the singer he once was.

Also… if you play these large places… some visuals would be nice.
I don’t mean pyrotechnics or dancers, but ‘the look’ of the show was exactly the same for three hours. ‘It’s all about the music’…ok… but actually it’s not if you play for 60.000 people.
In that retrospect I enjoyed the Lana Del Rey concert, the day after, much more.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: birdie ()
Date: July 12, 2023 02:47

Quote
BowieStone
Saw him too this weekend. Also not the biggest fan. To me he’s one of the great enigmas of popular music: never understood why he became so big. But I enjoy quite a few of his albums… even some later ones.

Hyde Park was good, but he’s not the singer he once was.

Also… if you play these large places… some visuals would be nice.
I don’t mean pyrotechnics or dancers, but ‘the look’ of the show was exactly the same for three hours. ‘It’s all about the music’…ok… but actually it’s not if you play for 60.000 people.
In that retrospect I enjoyed the Lana Del Rey concert, the day after, much more.

Not surprised at all why he became so big. Wrote some incredible albums throughout the years. His first 7 releases my be one of the best consecutive span of albums by anyone. Plus incredible live shows throughout the years…pure energy. Unmatched from ‘78-‘88 in my opinion.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 12, 2023 03:43

Quote
superglen
Quote
Topi
I think he changed five songs from night #1.

Rare that both Thunder Road and BITUSA were omitted at a show in Europe.

the river also omitted

Believe it or not, The River isn't actually played live that often. It's not a staple in the setlist on the current tour.

Tonight in Copenhagen was the second straight time Born In The USA wasn"t played.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-12 03:44 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: July 12, 2023 03:45

Quote
birdie
Quote
BowieStone
Saw him too this weekend. Also not the biggest fan. To me he’s one of the great enigmas of popular music: never understood why he became so big. But I enjoy quite a few of his albums… even some later ones.

Hyde Park was good, but he’s not the singer he once was.

Also… if you play these large places… some visuals would be nice.
I don’t mean pyrotechnics or dancers, but ‘the look’ of the show was exactly the same for three hours. ‘It’s all about the music’…ok… but actually it’s not if you play for 60.000 people.
In that retrospect I enjoyed the Lana Del Rey concert, the day after, much more.

Not surprised at all why he became so big. Wrote some incredible albums throughout the years. His first 7 releases my be one of the best consecutive span of albums by anyone. Plus incredible live shows throughout the years…pure energy. Unmatched from ‘78-‘88 in my opinion.

I agree, birdie. I saw a show earlier this year - exceptional as usual.

That said, after Tunnel his work is not as good - and I hate the political rants, thankfully left at home this year.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 12, 2023 03:45

It was HOT at the Parken tonight. Walked back downtown (a 4km walk, not bad) after the show.

I think tonight was the first time I got My Hometown as the full band version.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-12 04:05 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: jackflash27 ()
Date: July 12, 2023 12:14

Quote
BowieStone
Saw him too this weekend. Also not the biggest fan. To me he’s one of the great enigmas of popular music: never understood why he became so big. But I enjoy quite a few of his albums… even some later ones.

Hyde Park was good, but he’s not the singer he once was.

Also… if you play these large places… some visuals would be nice.
I don’t mean pyrotechnics or dancers, but ‘the look’ of the show was exactly the same for three hours. ‘It’s all about the music’…ok… but actually it’s not if you play for 60.000 people.
In that retrospect I enjoyed the Lana Del Rey concert, the day after, much more.

Can't agree more with this. And I also saw Lana on Sunday from the GC. Her show was incredible (as it was in Amsterdam a week before). Was worried because in the past her voice was not that great. But now she really delivered. Seems this year is her real breakthrough. Never thought her music would be suitable for large fields like Hyde Park, but it was. I already was a fan of her studio music, but now also of her live acts. Highly recommended!

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: bobo ()
Date: July 12, 2023 13:46

Thank God I can enjoy the music and don’t need any visuals.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: July 12, 2023 13:51

Speaking of visuals, the lights obviously worked better with a closer roof last night.

That was the 24th time I saw Bruce. Number 25 tomorrow.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: BowieStone ()
Date: July 12, 2023 14:58

Quote
bobo
Thank God I can enjoy the music and don’t need any visuals.

Not everybody is as cool as you.

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