Gazza, my buddy, once again you are quite CORRECT and as usual, the cynical Jostrom is all wet! Imagine blaming American fans because we're being ripped off MORE than European fans! America is a weralthy nation so you're saying, Johanna, that it's alright to charge MORE in the USA because they CAN so that makes it all OK! Well it's not ok! And golly gee, lucky you to be wealthy! Most Stones fans aren't and it is troublesome and depressing to many who can't go to even one show! Just because I CAN afford a few shows, that's good enough reason to rip me off to the max!?? WRONG! And it's bloody stupid, even for YOU, Jo, to suggest the ones who are justifiably outraged by the prices simply stay home! It is a huge gut-wrenching dilema for many of us, whether we CAN afford a ticket or not! The point made about exactly HOW MUCH THEY NEED is a valid point because it's absolutely true, in 20 lifetimes they couldn't spend all of their earnings FROM US! THE FANS! HELLO OUT THERE! REMEMBER US!?? Apparently not.Speaking for myself, my relationship with this band has been one of the most enduring ones I have! Marriages come and go, the Stones were there through it ALL! The Stones got alot of us through some of those terrible times in our lives! AND IT IS EXTREMELY BOTHERSOME TO FEEL ABUSED BY THEM!

jostorm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .....
> But please don't forget that at the last tour
> there were people from within our fanbase selling
> their second Astoria ticket to the highest bidder
> on ebay or auctioning them off at Ticket Trader
> for 2000 Euros, the point I'm trying to malke is
> that EVERYONE seems to be greedy, not just the
> Stones....


not everyone. Most people on this site I would wager wouldnt do that and would instead help out a friend or a fellow fan with their spare ticket. I know I did last time with someone who I knew was coming from California for the London shows and was obviously a genuine fan and I'll do something similar if I'm so lucky again.

and every other artist isnt 'greedy' - well, certainly not on that scale.

Brokers and ticket touts and the sort of people who auction tickets way over the odds on e-bay are a different ballgame entirely. Those people by the nature of their 'business' couldnt give a flying fúck whether its the Stones on stage or you, me and Debra having a contest of duelling banjoes as long as they can make money and rip people off. The music and the event is irrelevant to them. They're purely and unashamedly ONLY in it for the money. The Stones are supposed to have some interest in the musical and artistic side of it as well.

Bottom line is two wrongs dont make a right. Just because there are people out there ready to shamelessly exploit and rip people off doesnt mean the band have to do that too. They COULD organise these ticket sales at a decent price and with a distribution system that ensures that genuine fans get a fair crack of the whip but its obvious that they and Cohl dont give a shit. The fan club system IS significantly better than it was for the Licks tour - Ill give them credit for that - but the distribution of tickets is rotten to the core. Fan club members who have paid $100 shouldnt be getting offered "limited view" tickets on a pre-sale and its quite obvious from the patterns of ticket sales so far that theres a deliberately misleading ticket system which is holding many reasonably priced tickets back on initial sales and instead selling a disproportionately high number of the highest priced tickets in order to con 'panic buyers' into snapping them up because they think they are the only ones available by the time they get into ticketmaster's site. Lo and behold, the cheaper tickets suddenly become 'available' at a later date.

I paid $160 for pretty good seats at MCI in DC this year. I'm on the first level, not the floor. I paid $175 to see the Eagles and about $125 for Fleetwood Mac. I won't consider ticket brokers. I paid $50 to see Dylan a few years ago and $60 for Tom Petty. Most acts are up in the $100's and they get sold out all the time. There is no answer to this problem either, the ticket brokers jack up the prices all the time. One big problem here is that popular concerts sell out in 1 hour or so. A group of us have gotten together and share membership is the fan clubs, then we share the tickets. We usually can get at least 4 good seats at somewhat reasonable prices.

I have been going to Wolf Trap in DC, they are still pretty reasonable I saw BB King last year there for $25, sat on the lawn. BB was awsome, he's great. I go to Rams Head Tavern in Annapolis, which is really small and intimate. They book some good acts there, I saw Dr. John a few months ago.

I budget my big concerts to just one or two a year.

why would you pay $450 to see joplin and hendrix, but not the stones
i am just curious, assuming we could see joplin and hendrix
what did they have that the stones dont

"And people wonder why the Stones' music and their appeal is lost to younger audiences?"

Gazza, is NOT lost. They attracted 23 million people in their concerts since 1989 and 17 million since 1994. Do you think all of them were old band's friends? I don't think so. I tell you once again, when they play stadiums i see always a lot of young people being there. Don't ask me about arenas, i don't know.

I can't mention an artist near 60 or a band after 40+ years of career having most appeal to younger audiences. And remember that the Stones NEVER had been #1 popular band to the teenagers. Never! For example during early 70s ...David Cassidy and Osmonds were most fav. to teenagers...

Agree, the ticket prices in the USA are very high. But in Europe usualy are not. Let's see.

"R" you are right. When I see ticket prices in the US and also entrance fees for other events it is mostly much, much higher than here in Europe.
Unfortunately we think that everybody is free, but prices and obviously you salary dictate where you belong. Perhaps with the Stones it might be a bit different, because some of us still think that they are a "Streetfighting Band", but they never have been. If you look how you choose your life you choose it how you can stretch your bucks and where you wanna live and what you wanna do. You may spend more money to live in the fancy part of the city. If you want to golf in a upscale club you reach the members you want to reach. Only the money is ruling and rolling. That's why it's not any more the Rolling Stones, but the Rolling Bucks, no just joking.
So all the arguments for the ticket prices are getting lame, as your best friend might say it's to expensive, but sneak out to get those 450 USD tickets and the same time.

Gazza: I agree, most fans wouldn't , but some do, it's what happens when potentially ridiculous amounts of money are involved, some argued that selling the second theater show ticket would enable them to travel and buy six more concert tickets....I tried for an Astoria ticket on iorr.org, but when I was outbid gave up at 300 £ and told the chap to stick it where the sun don't shine...and then got one at facevalue ...(yes, that's right, you monumental piece of shit, in case you're reading this...)
I'm sure you are entirely honest and scrupulous, Gazza, and wouldn't even consider such an act, but not everyone has your strong moral fan-values., Regarding brokers and tickettouts: I'm totally and absolutely against the death penalty, but if it was a proven tout I'd go and watch the hopefully slow3 execution. Armed with a box of popcorn...And I don't think of the top-range-touts any differently!

Debra, Sweetpea, calm yourself down : read through it again, not all of it was meant seriously, some of it was meant extremely ironically (the header and the "have you got any idea how expensive it must be...?" at the end ought to have given it away!!!)....And no, I don't blame Americans, but it was in America where the concepts of VIP and taxdeductible corporate entertainment and stretchlimos etc were invented, the Stones are just jumping on the bandwagon of a system that is already well in place and running smootly.... 100$ for a game of golf? I'd personally prefer to watch paint dry, but how do families manage on a day out let's say watching a baseball match, if those are the prices people have to pay???
As to your tickets for 450$, my heart truly goes out to you for having to pay that obscene amount, and I already wrote this a long time ago on some other thread, but noone's put a gun to your head, and perhaps not seing them in your hometown, but travelling to The Olde World next summer instead would buy you better value for money??? Just a thought...
I flew to the US for the Licks Tour, this time I simply refuse to, but that is my personal decision, and no, I'm not wealthy at all, but I'd rather blow the money on something that gives my whole family pleasure, instead of on some tickets for myself only for the "We'll suck you dry until you die-Tour".
If I manage a theatre or two next summer, brilliant, but if not, I'm not bothering with anything else,except perhaps Amsterdam to meet up with other iorreans... so I've reached my limit, and everyone else has to decide on theirs. I'm not saying it's easy, or painfree, but if these are the new corporate rules to the old I love the Stones game, then for me personally debt is not an option.
Don't know what else to suggest, we either boycott it with a bleeding heart by not going at all, or we boycott it more proactively, but the fact remains that the Stones are in it very strongly for the profit, and our grinding of teeth ain't gonna change the price structure....
As to not being able to spend it in your lifetime: human greed knows no boundaries, in a lot of cases extremely rich people take the responsabilities that come with wealth very seriously and become amazing philanthropists, in others they don't. Bill Gates has given 5 billion $ away, which is absolutely amazing, I actually need to sit down with paper and pen to figure out how many zeroes goe after the 5, but my next thought is "shit, how much money must he still have????
So, perhaps they have simply forgotten about their fans.
Will someone please ask them ,if you happen to bump into them?

Johanna

a fine post, ma'am....

in my opinion they should @#$%& off. because enough is enough. I don`t want to save my money spending a gig amongst some foolish rich bastards who have got no sense for their music.
if it`s the choice of the stones to play in front of bloody rich people instead of their fans, than I will stick to this decision and remain at home. make some @#$%& vip parties and you be the juke box.
it`s their dignity which they are selling for money the don`t need. butb that`s their decision.

it`s long ago that keef said in 1988, one has to decide between the quick way to much money and playing music by heart and what counts is that when you die, people will say he passed it on.
keef, people will say this bastard ripped me off for 2 hours of posing and a little bit of playing guitar.

that`s it.

I had it with you.

Glad to see someone else here digs Lucien Freud & Francis Bacon....I do have to remind myself I spent about $265 on my ticket (including fan club platinum level membership, what an honor). I think their greed (no they're not alone, & not the worst offenders)hurts outreach to potential younger audiences. But R's points are quite relevant, & I dont think the Stones have changed all that much. There were many complaints about the 1969 US tour ticket prices in underground papers & Rolling Stone (Ralph Gleason), when tickets were $6.50. I remember (later, I'm a bit too young) a magazine from '69 w/ a picture of a gun pointed at Mick's head, the point being that he's a rich capitalist....Being a great artist/musician doesn't mean you're a saint, & saints dont necessarily make the best art...

the newly available tix that i found for MSG were all limited view seats. i dont think any good seats are still out there.

Good point about the hurt outreach to younger audiences, john r, but perhaps at their age the equation looks different. Perhaps there is NO way they could ever really get at massive younger audiences anyway, as those prefer crap music performed by young sexy musicians touching their crotch every 5 seconds , and rap and boom-boom stuff you can throw E's to....If you still have let's say 30 years of touring in you (ok, I'll say it NOW: IF mICK'S STILL PERFORMING IN 30 YEARS TIME, i'LL PUBLICLY EAT MY HUBBY'S FISHING HAT, OK?),then you need to build in certain points into your touring: appeal to a younger audience, i.e. lower ticket pricing, regular churn-out of new material i.e. regular albums plus videoclips for MTV, etc, etc...
I get the impression that they have one more great tour in them, but that after that perhaps Charlie has said a categorical "no!". Who knows...hope I'm wrong!
So, you have a fanbase that is mainly middle-aged (to put it mildly, I'm a spring-chicken compared to some...) and a lot of these people have reached a phase of their lives when they can spend, spend, spend. What do you do? You charge, charge, charge....
All those things that in my youth were part of the touring: hitchhiking , queueing for days, legging it to the front as soon as the doors opened and not bloody moving until 12 hours later, etc etc have now been marketed. Fanasylum. What is it but a new way for an old fan to relive his youth, but without the discomfort of piles, bursting bladders and unpleasant body odour? AND you get a laminated "thingy", pure GENIUS! They probably sneak you a tube of haemorrhoid cream into your VIPbag when you're not looking, but keep stumm about it....
So, if they grossed 125 million £ profit last time, I bet they'll gross more this time.
What would be the point of them saying : ok kids, we think this is the last time, and out of the pure goodness of our hearts and because you have been loyal to us for all these years and because we appreciate your love for us and the fact that you put us where we are, we shall do this tour especially for you at £ 27.50 !!!!!
It would be great, but somehow I don't think so....




PS: I caught Freud's latest exhibition in Venice together with the Biennale in June, it was out-of-this-world-amazing, but I really have to ask myself if I could live with one of his paintings, they are very intense and haunting , even the one portrait of a young baby looked full of premonition, as if the kid already foresees all the pain and suffering to come in later life.....

john r Wrote:
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> I> think their greed (no they're not alone, & not
> the worst offenders)

certainly not alone, but do you think theres any act who have been down the years consistently greedier?

I cant think of any.

Well, I was thinking of ticket prices for Barbra Streisand, Eagles (who really upped the ante on their first reunion tour), & a few others, but I wont argue the point.

Johanna, I've thought carefully about exactly WHY I'm so disturbed about the pricing and I've equated it to the day I discovered there was no Santa Claus! What a sad day! This is even a more bitter pill to swallow; I realize that the Stones aren't pure in motivation, not in it to play the music they( and we) love! I am crushed and disappointed and after years of defending them I find I just can't take their side in this, just can't defend this repulsive need to be the biggest fish in the pond at our expense and to be at the very top of the corporate ladder, something they once proclaimed to distain. Now they ARE the CORPORATION! I will go to at least 6 shows but something has been spoiled for me, something beyond definition. I have been emailing a photographer who has taken incredible pictures of great rock icons of the 60's and 70's because I went to his show at a local gallery and wanted to tell him how much I loved his work; of course there were shots of Mick and Keith( 78 Tour) and Jimi, Janis, Morrison, Jeff Beck, Rod Stewart, The Beatles, etc. I guess that revisiting the past has made it ever harder to admit that priorities have changed and for some, it hasn't been for the better.For the record, the photographer's name is Baron Wolman and he was the first official rock photographer for Rolling Stone. You will all recognize his work; check out his website and see our BOYS when we were all NOT so jaded. www.fotobaron.com will take you back to the real Glory Days!

john r Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I was thinking of ticket prices for Barbra
> Streisand, Eagles (who really upped the ante on
> their first reunion tour), & a few others, but
> I wont argue the point.


Streisand sprung to my mind as well,John but to the best of my knowledge Babs doesnt tour and instead tends to do 'residencies' in Vegas etc (correct me if I'm wrong). Her appearances are much less regular than the Stones.

The Eagles were charging $100 a ticket for that reunion tour before the Stones reached that figure, but have toured less ever since and wouldnt charge as much as the Stones do (I know they played the UK twice in the last few years and their ticket prices over here bore no comparison to those of the stones here.)

Thing is though, this is supposed to be rock n roll. Theres something seriously amiss when people are trying to justify Stones prices by equating them with non rock n roll acts like Streisand or Pavarotti or even major sports events or buying a valuable painting. If we're comparing them to anyone it should be their contemporaries in their own field. When we do that, only McCartney comes close to them in ticket prices.

last year in the states madonna was 300.00 for arena gigs..great show

gazza wrote: "Thing is though, this is supposed to be rock n roll. Theres something seriously amiss when people are trying to justify Stones prices by equating them with non rock n roll acts like Streisand or Pavarotti or even major sports events or buying a valuable painting. If we're comparing them to anyone it should be their contemporaries in their own field. When we do that, only McCartney comes close to them in ticket prices. "

_____


i think u2's ticket prices are the same the stones'

and the shows are in the same/comparable venues...

and i think thetwo tours have roughly the same number of engagements...

i wonder which one is selling better... i think the stones are selling better than alot of the naysayers are claiming (although i could be completely wrong)...

I think you are wrong. All 8 MSG for U2 were sold out within 2 hours. Macca sold out his 5 MSG in the same elapse of time. The Stones have not yet filled their MSG. So what about the 2 others scheduled in January. Anyway, should they cut their tix by a half, they would have made 2 Giants ( Springstee did 5 of them).
Stones are not made essentially for Arenas but Stadiums where they deliver their bests. I do not know how grade the selling in the US as not all shows are not scheduled. Maybe one of the reason is the offense and disgusting sales price.
Where is SFM ? Can't Mick & Keith bother about their fans opinions.

macdaddy Wrote:
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> i think u2's ticket prices are the same the stones'

U2's ticket prices this year: $50 (GA floor tix), $95 and $165

Average ticket price for the Stones in MSG is around $250. Half of the venue is top price $450. U2 around 30% of that. You can't compare. There will be MSG shows in January as well, and the Jan 20 show is even confirmed between the lines by Ameriquest.

Bjornulf

So that means if there is going to be a second show in Chicago, (hope so) it's going to be the 25th.

I think we shouldn't complain about the prices! They are the Greatest!

thank you for joining the discussion, Mr Jagger...

You can keep all the money, pal!

- Keith Richards

...that was FUNNY, Gazza!...

Wolter,Sweetheart: absolutely! Why don't you send them an email saying that there's still room for improving their profits and that they aren't charging us enough yet?....

Debra: I think I know exactly how you feel, and the Santa Claus example hits the nail on the head....I can only hope for you and the rest of us that the shows are going to be so good that they will give everyone acute "price-amnesia", because " 6 shows" sounds damn expensive to me....

So we complain about the price and we complain about the way they sell the tickets and how few club shows they play and how many old hits they play and still we buy those tickets and buy beer at six dollars at the venue and buy more tickets for more shows. And we spend a fortune on travel to shows not anywhere near where we live. Are we just stupid or addicted or don't we have something else to do with our money?

Bjornulf

all of the above

bv Wrote:
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> Are we just stupid or addicted or don't we have something
> else to do with our money?

We are stupid addicted people who don't have anything else to do with our money...



[There'll be no wedding today...]

maybe we're addicted people with not enough money who are too stupid to do something else with it!