I did follow a thread about these shows in which Bjornulf made a very valid popint that one should make a big distinction between CLUB shows and VIP shows, the former being great by and large, and the latter being boring by virtue of sharing the venue with corporate "there to be seen" types who wouldn't recognise JJF from BS. But on the subject of getting TICKETS for these shows, I just don't understand why they don't sell them on the same basis that they sold tickets for the BRIXTON and SHEPHERDS BUSH EMPIRE shows for in London. A couple of days before the shows, they announced where and when, and those who queued up were rewarded. Simple, and more to the point - fair and reasonable. Then they went and changed it for the ASTORIA show, you could buy those over the internet, and lo and behold - enter the scalper into the equation.

What they (the Stones) should do with ticket sales for these small sorts of shows seems blindingly obvious to me, what do other people think?

In Europe they used the theory that if you are a desperate fan you will find out where they sell the tickets. I stayed overnight outside Virgin Megastore in 1995 and Tower Records 1999 due to word of mouth. You may call me desperate, but it was a great time and I met many friends those nights. If you really want to get into a club show then you have to work hard, really hard. Believe me. I don't know if they will use the same model anymore for ticket sales, but it sure made great shows and great local crowds. Plus those who really worked hard had a chance of getting a ticket and a wristband without paying a fortune. I think I paid 25 pounds. Also they get great press with 3,000 people queuing in the streets for tickets. I don't know if the police would allow that in US cities.

The casino model is easier. You sell the show for 3 or 5 million dollars to Pepsico or Hard Rock Hotel or whoever. They handle the rest. Including ticket sales. I think we will see both these models used more on this tour. The casinos need some fun buth those shows can't be used for DVD's or live recordings. So they throw in some fun shows as well, like NY, LA, London, Paris, Amsterdam etc.

Bjornulf

Bjornulf,

Agreed. I simply worked out where/when the tix for Brixton and Shepherds Bush were going on sale (It was Vrigin Megastore at the end of Oxford Street for Brixton and HMV at Picadilly Circus for Shepherds Bush), I got there early and lo and behold - got tickets for each of those shows. To me it seems that if you are, as you rightly say, a true and desperate fan, you make an effort and you get a reward. An inherently fair system I think we can all agree. So it was a bit of an unpleasant surprise when the Astoria show was not "ticketed" in the same way, but there you go !! Maybe that's progress ?

Anyway, meanwhile, I have a pair of tix for MSG and a friend of mine has another pair to trade for good seats at Giants, so at this moment in time we are hardly complaining, we are nothing short of deliriously happy !! See you in Mustang Harry.

Paul

Sorry,

You're right, it was Tower records in 99 for Shepherds Bush. Wasn't it great, I really enjoyed being in that queue? Met some brilliant people.

I'm so determined to get into the Beacon Theatre! We're staying in New York untill Sept 19th - just in case. I mean, wonders have happened before... (Especially if you're religious, which I'm not) Do you think the "fan club bite" BUY TWO TICKETS FOR THEATRE SHOWS, will actually be good? Didn't work for me last time. I just queued up outside the theatre the night before, and they sold approx 50 extra tickets, to make life a little less blessed for the scalpers. I think that's a good idea - to f**k up the scalpers strategies. Will this happen again? That they sell another 50-70 tickets before theatre shows?

Brixton went on sale 36 hours before the show. I remember Mick saying "See you at Brixton" at the end of the last Wembley Stadium show. That was the first time ever officially announced about that show, except for the fact that the DoRo production film from Stockholm Stadium had it listed as club show London. So I had made sure I had a hotel room a few blocks walking from Virgin Megastore (word of mouth and hard work) and stayed on alert. Checking the megastore every half hours for queuing... By 7pm 4-5 people queued there on Oxford Street so I joined the queue. They usually do this 1-2 days ahead max. You can't walk around with those wristbands forever, even if I know many who collect them all for weeks. They are used for the front pit s well.

I don't think they will use this method in the US but you never know.

Bjornulf

OK, I live 10,000 miles from London. There is absolutely no way I can drop my work and fly that distance at reasonable rate with a two day notice for a show like the Brixton. Beyond that, logistically, I cannot even get to London from where I live in 48 hours. While not quite as bad, I am sure that there are many in Kansas, Missouri, Brazil, Japan,etc. that just cannot feasibly pick up and go on 48 hour notice to que in line. Now add the fact that the line probably starts within hours of the announcement, we are just left out in the cold. But with the net I did get into the Enmore and the Astoria.

I live on an island with 300o people in the middle of the Pacifc. The Stones are never going to play our local casino. SO, do you honestly think what you suggest Paulywaul is fair to people like me? Without the internet there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I am going ot get into a theater show. What you suggest then is that it is fair that only big city dwellers have the oppurtunity to catch a show. And then only if you hear the right street rumour at the right time or if you are by an a radio to hear the announcemnt in time to get in line before it is too long. Is geograqphy and luck really more fair? That all said I have arranged to stay in the LA area hoping for a Palladium announcement, either early or late.

Just have to tell you a story from the queue outside the Cirkus in Stockholm. I arrived by bus from Oslo Norway at 06.00 am and joined the queue imediately. 20 people in front of me. Waiting patiently and in great solidarity with other true fans, we organized a system that allowed people to go to the toilet, get a snack etc. Lists of names, numbers on the back of our hands. Everything went smooth. The queue organizer was a Norwegian TV-celebrity, well known for his Stones-passion, by the way. At noon, a well known Swedish, female business solisitor arrived in a Dior suit, Louis Vuitton accessories and a pound of gold arround her neck and wrists. (Never seen anyting like that since I lived on Central Park West and 110th street, when the rappers came cruising down from Harlem...). She insisted we let her have a "nice place in the queue - since my lunch break is only 30 minutes". Gave us all a good laugh! I'm not even sure she knew who was playing in the venue that night... Anyway, we insisted on equal rules for everyone. She was worried about us writing down a number on her hand, since she had just been manicured... We told her: No number - no ticket! And you have to wait in line, just like everyone else. Her face told us that this was clearly the first time in her life she had been treated "just like a common man". We loved it! All the true fans got their tickets. And the lady? I don't care. And the concert was FANTASTIC! One of my greatest Stones-moments was when Keith gave Mick a hug, after Mick had done a fantastic vocal job on "That's how strong my love is". People like The Dior madame ca go f**k themselves and stay away from our precious theatre shows.

In response to Kahoosier's comments,

No, I'm not suggesting that that it is inherently "fairer" to people like yourself who simply can't find themselves in London, Paris, Amsterdam, LA or NY at the drop of a hat. It is obviously not. What I am however suggesting is that it does at least provide a mechanism that to "some" extent offers reward for effort, and in that respect it probably provides a better opportunity of minimising the number of tickets that fall into the hands of scalpers than making them available through the net. I mean really, when you see tix for club shows going for high hundreds or thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$ - well does it not p*** you off? It does me, and I feel fairly confident that it does a great many other dedicated fans as well, irrespective of their personal financial circumstances or levels of disposal income. There's a "slight mark-up in price" - and then there's downright bloody extortion !! The former no doubt we can all tolerate, the latter is surely distasteful to us all, or would you not agree ? I think it would be fair to say that there's probably no perfect way of availing tickets for intimate club shows. "Someone" is always going to find unfairness in whatever mechanism is employed. It quite simply remains to be seen what they now DO in the way of club shows, and how those tickets are made available to us. One thing we're all assured of, demand is liable to exceed supply by a factor of about 50 billion to 1 !!! Hold on to your hats boys and girls, it's going to be a nerve jangling ride !!

The only complaint I had about the Shep Bush arrangement was that they sold the tickets the day before (on the Monday morning -7th June) with the location being word of mouth and then announced on Virgin radio - yet MOST hardcore Stones fans in the UK were at the show in Sheffield the night before (some 250 miles north) and were effectively penalised because they were actually SEEING the band!

I was one of the lucky ones who had made a few phone calls to 'in the know' people that previous weekend in Edinburgh and Sheffield and so was able to get the first train out of Sheffield at something like 5 am to get to Tower Records in time. Others werent so lucky.

I still think there should be some online provision made for the fact that there are genuine fans who are travelling from far afield. Kahoosier, for example, travelled 10,000 miles or so and God knows how many flights to see the Astoria show. I doubt he and others would have travelled halfway around the world had the only gigs that week in London been at Twickenham. You cant have a system that penalises people for not living in major cities like New York, London, LA etc. I thought the system on the Licks tour worked reasonably well, considering, but theres no perfect way around it I guess.

Still, Shepherds Bush was the best £10 I ever spent. The Stones, with Sheryl Crow as the opening act, in a 1,800 capacity theatre.

By the same token, fans who don't happen to have an AMEX Gold Card issued in the USA with a 10-digit USA phone number on it that has to be quoted in order to purchase a ticket shouldn't be penalized either.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only complaint I had about the Shep Bush
> arrangement was that they sold the tickets the day
> before (on the Monday morning -7th June) with the
> location being word of mouth and then announced on
> Virgin radio - yet MOST hardcore Stones fans in
> the UK were at the show in Sheffield the night
> before (some 250 miles north) and were effectively
> penalised because they were actually SEEING the
> band!

That was EXACTLY my problem Gazza. I remember very well being woken up, hungover like a bastard after the Don Valley gig by a mate in London telling me that she just heard on the radio that tickets are going on sale at Tower Records, and I just felt so gutted, just seeing in my mind the idea of my first stones club gig drifting away. But I was lucky. My friend queued up TWICE and got me a ticket and wristband. To this day I still dont know how she didnt get recognised and thrown out the queue. I still owe her. How do you repay that sort of favour?!


>
> Still, Shepherds Bush was the best £10 I ever
> spent. The Stones, with Sheryl Crow as the opening
> act, in a 1,800 capacity theatre.

Oh yeah! I was nearly in tears when Keith did "You got the silver". Great memories indeed!




_____________________________________________________

What's your favourite flavour?...........Cherry Red!!

I dont know HOW the hell you and your friend got away with that!

Everyone's wrist was inkstamped and individually numbered plus you were issued with a wristband which, if seen to have been removed, invalidated your ticket... and they DID certainly check for that on the way in!

Mr Jimmy is full of bullshit IMHO. He's trying to pull off one of 'em Maverick stunts.
Truth is you were home jerking off when the Stones played at the Shep Bush.

Word of mouth doesn't always work...I asked tons of people if they knew where tix were going on sale for Shep. Bush...(at the Sheffield gig the night before) and everyone kind of shrugged (including BV...who I still state is a nice guy & must have had his reason for not telling me)...so I ended up emptying my bank account and paying 500 pounds for a ticket...

Word of mouth is great...but only if people are talking...

If I did not tell you or anyone else where the SBE club ticket sales were simply because I did not know. I did not know until we were on our way in a car to London, and you were not in that car. So that must be the reason why I could not tell. Right?

This is actually well documented in my report from that gig, including a report about our wild car drive from Sheffield to London, made in record time that night. And that report was stolen by bootleggers and put into print on a famous bootleg from the Wembley & SBE shows...

[iorr.org]

PS. Anonymous people I can't really relate to. If I don't see a name then you are a stranger to me...

Bjornulf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-15 22:53 by bv.

A crowd of us in the queue at Tower Records for Shepherds Bush were exchanging stories about how we heard about the show and the ticket sale location.

One guy came up with what I thought was a great way of finding out. He said that he phoned around all of the main record shop megastores in the centre of London the day before (Virgin, HMV, Our Price, Tower, etc) and pretended to be a stockist of crash barriers, asking the same question along the lines of "I have an order to set up crash barriers at your shop tomorrow for a ticket sale for a Rolling Stones concert - what time do you want them for?"

Of course, each store told him they knew nothing about it until someone at Tower confirmed what time they needed the delivery.

I can dig it...not trying to blame you...just saying that word of mouth didn't work for me...never has. Everyone is always real friendly...people I'd like to have a drink with...but word of mouth just doesn't seem to work...at least for me.

I remember when that truck with barriers actually arrived very early morning at Tower records. It was the first "official" sign of the ticket sales going on there. Why else would they have a large truck packed with barriers arriving there? At Brixton the barriers were actually nicely placed at the sidewalk. You could see them being stacked up here and there.

These are the small little things you have to look for when you aim at these secret ticket sales places. You need many barriers to control a queue of 3,000 people. Also secret security people drop by very descrete, asking us to pretend there is not really any queue, and certainly not for the Stones. Pretend it is for nothing. They don't want any queues until it is announced on radio, in the morning. Large crowds queuing are expensive to handle, and the authorities don't want them all night in the streets. Many little signs you have to look for. The club tickets never come easy. There are simply too few of them. And the way they do it change every time.

Bjornulf

To Gazza,

The guy phoning up central London record shops asking them where/when they wanted the crash barriers set up? I remember him well, he was two or three people away from me and my friend in the queue. Yes I agree with you, that was positively ingenious. My friend and I didn't on that occasion have to resort to such spectacular ingenuity, we just phoned up a journalist colleague of his who worked (and still indeed does) as a music critic for a newspaper. The guy made one phone call in his professional capacity as a music journalist (probably to the Stones press office), and was duly told where/when tix were going on sale. Wouldn't it be nice if life was always quite that simple ???

"Wank" Outsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr Jimmy is full of bullshit IMHO. He's trying to
> pull off one of 'em Maverick stunts.
> Truth is you were home jerking off when the Stones
> played at the Shep Bush.

Hey Mr.!!!!!

I was there. Read my review by using the link in bv's msg above, my name is Andy Knight, from London, UK.

I really dont remember the thing gazza said about wrists being inkstamped. Did he mean actual ink on your skin or wristbands??
I still have my wristband and ticket. My ticket is number 0005. I also have a complete roll of film from this gig, quite good photos but not that close up because i was upstairs level 3.

I don't remember the security being THAT tight at SBE. My wristband looked fine and there was absolutely no problem getting in.

I was at the astoria 2003 and that WAS tight - collecting wristbands on the day or day before, presenting the special letter I received in the post, having two disposable cameras confiscated! I actually got one camera inside and took about 10 seriously close up shots of the band, until i was noticed and asked to hand it over. SHIT!!

So stop bitching about my credentials Rank Outsider! I was there !


_____________________________________________________

What's your favourite flavour?...........Cherry Red!!

Mr Jimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Wank" Outsider Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ! I
> actually got one camera inside and took about 10
> seriously close up shots of the band, until i was
> noticed and asked to hand it over. SHIT!!
>

At the Wiltern show - we were told not to bring in cameras - but once we were in, I asked a security person standing next to me at the catwalk what the policy was - and she said okay to take pix as long as no flash - then I caught her taking shots a-plenty with a flash! I got about a dozen or so good closeups of Mick...had to lean back at times to get him in the frame!

Mr Jimmy Wrote:
, UK.
>
> I really dont remember the thing gazza said about
> wrists being inkstamped. Did he mean actual ink on
> your skin or wristbands??
>

no. when you were in the queue, a guy came round everyone and inkstamped a number on your wrist. each person had a different number based on their place in the queue. I was about 480 or something. At the time, no one quite knew how many tickets were going to be sold. Rumours I heard on the way down varied from about 250 to about 1,000. of course, by the time someone was inkstamping a number on your wrist you knew you were not going to be shut out! In the end they sold around a thousand to the public. £10 a ticket. One ticket per person. Cash only, no change given!

My wife and I arrived at Tower records in a taxi from Kings Cross complete with heavy suitcases as we were spending the entire week doing all of the UK shows! We must have looked a bit odd as everyone else beside us looked like they'd just strolled into the queue from the Tube. of course, the people at the front of the queue were well wrapped up having been there all night.

Yeah that would be funny Gazza, suitcases in Picadilly circus. What time did you manage to get a train from sheffield??!!

With regard to the inkstamp, i can only assume that my friend (who was with her mum) got her wrist stamped, then queued again, but maybe the person checking her wrist was not actually recording the number on the wrist, just checking for a stamp, like when you go into some clubs, music venues etc. and i assume she gave her original ticket and wristband to her mum while she went in again. I am going to get precise details from her next time I see her as to how on earth she pulled it off. She is a short cute looking girl, not the obvious security target like a 6'1" man in a raincoat or something...!

I didnt get anymore feedback from RankOutsider. Was he just winding me up do you think, or does he really think I'm full of shit??!!




_____________________________________________________

What's your favourite flavour?...........Cherry Red!!

Mr Jimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah that would be funny Gazza, suitcases in
> Picadilly circus. What time did you manage to get
> a train from sheffield??!!
>

something like 5.15 am

I really was "out of my brain" at that time as I must have had an hour in bed. The hotel manager in Sheffield even drove us to the train station!