Weird thing; Hungary had Western rock albums in the 1980´s record stores.
But they did cost at least twice as much as the domestic artist´s discs.
Sometimes even as much (what I Saw in 1982, 84 & 85) as five times the domestic price...
Which is why I have a semi-impressive Hungarian record collection
(some rec´s there, I understand, worth up to 1000$ today...
No! I dont store them at home...).
I also thought I learnt that some records were very hard to get.
Still more to choose among than in other Iron Curtain countries:
Mostly Hungary lived up to the rumour of being "the jolliest baracks
in the East [Europe]". Note Hungary had an own rock culture from the mid-60´s or something like that.
At circa 1968-69-70 Omega & other groups were well stablished;
Hobo Blues Band started out in that period...
With Stones as their prime role model.

Man I just love this board. Where else can a poor country boy from the mid-west, (Missouri)), Chuck Berry still lives here!), talk about his favorite band and get a cultural/geographical lesson at the same time. gaigai's post is profound. Thanks to all who posted in this thread. You are my eyes to the world.



I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-15 14:04 by RankOutsider.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then I think they had problems with 1990 I think,
> not sold out as far as I remember, again related
> to football? Almost empty stadium for one of the
> shows they recorded for the IMAX, as far as I
> remember.

The turin show, probably...
>
In 1998 they were ready and booked and I was
> in Milan, the show after the opening show
> Nuremberg. Sold out more than 65,000 tickets. But
> Mick had lost his voice and they had to cancel on
> show day and also cancel Bilbao, where they played
> on the LICKS tour.

I was there also...after that cancellation, the italian promoter went out of business!
>
> San Siro was packed and ready as ever during
> LICKS.

It was, BV; I was front of the b-stage, and I think I've seen you: were you wearing a squared shirt or something like that?

if other bands like U2
> sell well there, or if it is more like Succero -

U2 tickets went sold out a few hours after their release.

Regarding eastern europe, I know Hungary best, and I can tell you they do know and love the Stones!!! The success of Stones shows in Prague also suggests me that Czech Republic is to be considered as a Stones - country also...

As far as I can see is the Netherland Stones country #1. Germany is much bigger than The Netherlands. If The Netherlands was as big as Germany I'll bet The Stones will play more show in The Netherlands than Germany. If you compare those two country's by quantity of shows it will be the same I guess

If the Netherlands were as big as Germany then we would have to learn Flamish in shool in Norway... Quite hypothetic.

The Stones are very popular in the Netherlands because everybody in the Netherlands speak perfect English, are just a quick ferry trip away from London, and culturally very close to London/UK. Finland and Denmark are like 4 million people i.e. 30% of the Netherlands, and they play a sold out 50,000 capacity show in each of these countires on every tour. It is all about how easy it is to travel, how many people live near a big city and all of that. I guess in the Netherlands you can get by train o car to Amsterdam within 2-3 hours wherever you live actually. In Norway it takes at least 8 hours to get to any other major city and 2-3 days to get south to north by car. That way it is harder to get all the people in the country t a show.

Don't make me wrong. The Netherlands is a great Stones country in Stonesland, but this is not like the world cup of fans...

Bjornulf

I would say France and maybe Italy considering the fact they recorded Exile in France and enjoy living in Italy. Yes they recorded in Germany butno I would say France and Italy. Aux Les Abbatoirs, Italian girls, Anita, etc. Mentality wise I vote for France and Italy.

BV, if you speak flamish in Amsterdam, they don't understand you

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Don't make me wrong. The Netherlands is a great
Stones country in Stonesland, but this is not like
the world cup of fans...
Bjornulf


Oh no, of course not. It wouldn't be fair. Be glad it's not a competition. The Stones are as happy with the German fans as with the fans from The Netherlands. I don't know wich kind of people are more enthousisatic but's that's not relevant.
I'm glad I've live in The Netherlands as a Stones fan but I'm in two hours drive in Germany.

But if you look to the concerts in general and not only to the Stones concerts, Holland is a very decent country to give concerts. We've got a lot of nice venue's to give a great show. A nice venue to give a great concert with a great crowed in it. What do you want more? I'll bet the have in Germany also great venue's because artists love to come to Germany and to Holland

Why doesn't anyone count the record sales, gold albums, number ones, etc. to indicate something about the following for the band in a particular country (and one of the reasons the Stones visit some places, some places not)? - of course the matter cannot be said in terms of true die-hard fans (those don't push any record to Top Ten) but I believe the record sales do say something; where the records sell more, there probably are more 'true fans'.

In this respect Finland definately is not a Stonesland: they have only got TWO (2!) golden discs during their whole career from this market: Steel Wheels and 40 Licks. I suppose one reason that the Stones didn't visit Finland for 25 years was just not only the geographical distance but their relatively poor sales. And I suppose, again, that the problems they have for selling out the Helsinki Olympic stadium - their 'normal' venue - last time (they needed to add ZZ Top to bill to make it scantily happen, f.e. 1995 - after 25 years of waiting - it was sold out in few hours) is the reason they will shift the venue for an arena next year. There is no way they can sell out that stadium anymore with that prices - every Finn who wants to see the legends live, have already seen them.

I really don't know the statistics for other countries - all I know that Sweden is much more Stonesland than Finland in terms of this sort of success (in record sales, list hits etc.)

- Doxa

P.S. More speculation: I think one of the main reasons that the Stones are willing to go 'new' places (like adding 1995 Finland to their European leg of Voodoo Lounge tour, then 1998 Estonia and Russian; next time maybe Iceland?) is that they have already satisfied the demand in their 'normal' targets (France, Germany, UK, Sweden etc.) - the only places they 'bothered' to visit in their peak (70-80's) years. Last time they even had some problem to fill the places in their biggest and strongest market, Germany. That's a mark of juicing up the markets. The thrill of having the Stones for the first time for some 25 years or ever to your country is a good tactics to sell tickets - but that sort of demand is easily satisfied, as can be seen in Finland.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-16 11:29 by Doxa.

well, counting record sales implies that records are available. which they generally weren't in communist-bloc countries, until well after we became ex-communist-bloc countries. i don't think there's any way to quantify it (or feel it needs to be quantified).


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-16 13:17 by with sssoul.

Baboon bro, where are you from?

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well, counting record sales implies that records
> are available. which they generally weren't in
> communist-bloc countries, until well after we
> became ex-communist-bloc countries. i don't think
> there's any way to quantify it (or why it needs to
> be quantified).
>

That's true, but in a certain way the ex-communist bloc is an expection (like any other societies were western pop music is/were not easily available for whatever reasons.) If there weren't the big western market in the first place, where these products were available, there weren't any Rolling Stones at all, right? No "Satisfaction" to reach the top of any list almost in every country back in '65 and make this band the hottest international band, only second to Beatles, and so on. Believe me, the sales and chart positions do matter. Ask Mick Jagger

I agree that there is not any discrete way to quantify the popularity of The Stones between the countries, but I still believe that you can a little bit estimate it by looking f.e. their relative success (to other acts) in the national charts - or that how easily the concert tickets are sold, and so on. You know, there is country outside Europe were almost every new Stones record (like No Security) have went to number one from the early 90's on or something (Argentina). That's what I call a real Stonesland.

In fact, I would quite likely to see the statistics of the success of the Stones in different markets. We all know, from every Stones book, the chart positions in UK and US markets, the US numbers specifically, but what goes for different, more 'marginal' (sic) markets, like Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy, Sweden, Norway and Australia? How many number one singles, albums, gold albums? Which ones? etc. It is interesting also to find out that there some extraordinary hits in different places, like "Under The Boardwalk" was a big hit in Australia, if I remember right. In Finland back in the 60's there was the oddity that the (horrible) Finnish covers (that hit the charts at the same time as the originals), did sell more than those originals - and that applied all to international hits, the Stones singles among others.

- Doxa




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-16 13:35 by Doxa.

Ik bin bange im dunkel... Sorry I don't know if that is flamish or dutch or nonsense, it's just something that was printed on a milk cartoon in the Netherlands when I was there one time may be 20 years ago... Well I am not that afraid of darkness, but I still do remember it for some reason...

The thing about the greatest Stones fans is really fascinating. You may say that Argentina or Spain or Germany or the Netherlands or FRance or Italy or in fact some places in USA like NYC may have the greatest Stones fans. But the fact is I think their own home fans are quite unique too!

When the Stones play in London they sell out some stadiums. And nobody care. They may do one or two or even five stadium shows at Wembley or at Twickenham, but in the 8 million people "sleeping" city of London, you might even know they are in town. Nothing in the press. May be they write that the cousin of the queen's son or something was there with a new lover, but they never write about the show or the Stones.

Yet, when you are in the crowd, at Wembley or at Twickenham, you feel the "electricity" of the London fans. It is unique. Nothing like it. May be it is like blood is thicker than water. May be it is like the king george cross or whatever it is call - sorry I am not sure - but you know the England flag they placed on the T-shirt of Tweickenham - the red cross which belongs to England. The electricity is a sign of the "boys" coming home. Everybody know each word to their songs. They understand the deeper meaning of the lyrics wherever they might be. They have all been to the pubs and the streets and the hills and the train stations and the environment that made the Stones grow up into the most fascinating and unique rock band on the planet.

That is why I have not missed a single Stones show in Engøland since 1982. I saw them all. Not because I am rich. Not because I am crazy. Not because it is easy. But because being in a crowd of fans from London or England or UK for that matter is so unique, so special, and I would not miss that moment for anything if I could avoid it. And that is why I would set up this list of places I would recommend you to see the Stones if you ever could, if you ever could afford it, and if you really wanted to travel around:

1. London
2. New York
3. Buenos Aires
4. Barcelona
5. Mannheim

And please forgive me for not listing all those other places I think it is just as great to see the Stones... This is just a list of places I think it is special every time... You know I go other places too... Just can't help it...







Bjornulf

Good post and full of the right perspective. Hopefully that'll nail the myth that the Stones are 'hated' in their own country by many people who've never been there and dont know what theyre talking about.

Nice and interesting, bv. Maybe we sometimes look to much at the medias interest when we think of how "big" a group or artist is.

And you can't either look at the record sales. Sex Pistols were a big act in music business but yet not: They didn't sell much records 'cause a big part of their fans were unemployed and couldn't afford them.

I mean if people go to see the Stones in the UK it is certainly not because they feel the presure from the newspapers or from the press. It is because of their long lasting love for the band.

And that is one of the strongest of many Stonesland images I have in my mind... The morning of the Brixton club show ticket sales summer 1995. Having the wristband and ticket secured. Around 11am. Still tickets left. Believe it or not. The ticket sales queue was empty. But they still had around 100-200 tickets left. People walking on Oxford Street in suit and tie on their way to work. Being told that Stones at Brixton was at sale right there. Seing their faces as they heard it and 5 minutes later when they came out. Still suit and tie. But with a ticket and a wristband. And a ten times bigger smile. The picture of those few lucky Londoners who walked into the empty ticket queue from 10:30 until 11am or so that morning is one of my greatest memories. Seing the face of the regular guy who don't even for a second think about if it is ok or not to buy that ticket, if it fits into his schedule etc. No - just go for it. That's the regular guy in the streets of London.

Mind you most of the guys - or girls - with suit and tie who walked in for tickets - were not even born when they recorded Sticky Fingers. Still that show was one of the greatest ones I have experienced ever - crowd wise.

Bjornulf

BV is right about the media in this country and if anything they will go out of thier way to slag them off <which is comman for uk media> i just wished i could have been around brixton around that time.

Me personally would just love to see the stones abroad and funnily egnouth my mom won two tickets to see the stones in france and gave them to my two sisters instead citing i had the money to see then egnouth times, but mom!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully i hope to do it this time around loved to go to usa but will have to settle for europe i think, as thinking of a old thread on iorr meeting up in amsterdam we hope.

Holland,Germany and England.
After Spain.
Italy is the last
Onlystones

only stones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Italy is the last
> Onlystones


Purtroppo hai ragione.
Unfortunately you're right.

Thanks for posting. just finished my holiday. I`ll see---STONESLAND is everywhere

I agree with the posts here regarding UK media disdain for the Stones. But it doesnt matter to the Legions who go see the shows...the STONES generally get Crap press here in England, where the only thing thing they talk about is thier collective age..you only have to look at the Lame duck questions asked at the recent press conference, 'is this your last tour' 'are you doing it for the money'..all come from the English press - its all they are interested in. The new Stones album will not be blessed with too many objective reviews.
It'll all be along the same lines 'its only rock n roll and for now..yeah we quite like it' ..and thats if its a good review!
THankfully, UK fans love for the Stones overrides most of this media stuff..the venues are packed with people who love'em, we know the press is full of horseshit, and that we will get a top show from our top band.