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71Tele

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

True, but the EU let in Bulgaria, for God's sake, so I don't really see how an independent Scotland would have a problem. It's likely a moot point anyway, as most believe the "no" vote will win out and Scotland will end up with some further form of devolution.

I do hope you're right about the moot point, I think the problem with re-applying for the EU is there's a queue and it doesn't happen overnight, they might find themselves out on a limb for a few years........

...Geeeeeeez when I was there way back in 2006 all the locals
ever wanted ta know was if I'd seen a white-pointer .... No No man those things will friggin' eat ya in one bite



ROCKMAN

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Aquamarine

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Big Al

OK, what makes one eligable for Scotish citizenship? Birth? Parental decent?

Residence, just like most other countries, I would imagine.

But that'd be naturalisation and registration. That's never the first instance. In the U.K. post 1983, it's decent through the mother or father. Being born in the U.K. hasn't had any automatic baring on British citizenship for thirty-one years. Scotland, in my opinion, will revert to a Scotish-by-birth system and, perhaps, have a settlement treaty, like they which exists between the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland.

"We dont want an independent Tibet, we want to be part of a free China"
Dalai Lama
independence is a nationalistic urge that had sense in the 19th century not now, anywhere in the world, the world simply just don't work as separate national units.
here in italy we have had people talking about a "padania" as a "nation" that would want to get independent. there were of course some reasonable feelings of discontent against Rome and the government but also a lot of racist and irrational motivations.

So, now political threads are allowed if the stones talk about the subject?

Hope Mick doesn't comment about Ukraine...

<<So, now political threads are allowed if the stones talk about the subject?>>

It isn't a political thread, at least it wasn't intended to be. It's just a news item about Mick signing on in favor of Scotland being maintained as a sovereign territory of the UK.

The Stones aren't talking about the subject. We don't know whether Keith and Charlie agree, or whether they even care.

Mick is a knight of the realm, and so naturally he would be in favor of Scotland remaining a part of the UK. He's also a celebrity, and if he's among numerous other celebrities publicly showing their support of such a referendum, then it's news.

So there you have it: it's a news thread.

And now the weather: severe posts in the forecast....

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

It would be economic suicide for the rest of the UK to not carry on a shared currency with Scotland. This currency talk is just the Better Together campaign trying to scare people in to voting no.

Cameron has already said he would support a Scottish application to enter the EU if that's what the people of Scotland want.

Scotland has so much potential as an independent country, being part of the UK is seriously draining it and holding it back. It's not about nationalism, it's about the country making the best of it's vast resources and reaping the benefits instead of huge chunks of that going down south.

The UK is not better together, it's been a mess for decades.

Do not know much about the reality behind the Scottish independence. movement, but was happy to read that Vera Lynn is with us and healthy. A relic on soon to be gone generation...

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Gemini

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

It would be economic suicide for the rest of the UK to not carry on a shared currency with Scotland. This currency talk is just the Better Together campaign trying to scare people in to voting no.

Cameron has already said he would support a Scottish application to enter the EU if that's what the people of Scotland want.

Scotland has so much potential as an independent country, being part of the UK is seriously draining it and holding it back. It's not about nationalism, it's about the country making the best of it's vast resources and reaping the benefits instead of huge chunks of that going down south.

The UK is not better together, it's been a mess for decades.

Well, this is what Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (for what he's worth) have said - no pound - but then, yes, who ever heard of a politician reneging on their statements.....

Better together....anyone who supports Labour would want the Scots to stay, they might not like haggis and a Glasgow kiss but they sure like the Scottish Labour vote...(and need it to have any serious chance of ousting the Condemn party)......seriously though, I don't think it's being in the Uk per se that's draining Scotland...London drains the rest of the UK (including Scotland). That's what needs to be addressed.

Scots....Please don't abandon the rest of us..........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-10 15:53 by EddieByword.

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EddieByword

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Gemini

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

It would be economic suicide for the rest of the UK to not carry on a shared currency with Scotland. This currency talk is just the Better Together campaign trying to scare people in to voting no.

Cameron has already said he would support a Scottish application to enter the EU if that's what the people of Scotland want.

Scotland has so much potential as an independent country, being part of the UK is seriously draining it and holding it back. It's not about nationalism, it's about the country making the best of it's vast resources and reaping the benefits instead of huge chunks of that going down south.

The UK is not better together, it's been a mess for decades.

Well, this is what Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (for what he's worth) have said - no pound - but then, yes, who ever heard of a politician reneging on their statements.....

Better together....anyone who supports Labour would want the Scots to stay, they might not like haggis and a Glasgow kiss but they sure like the Scottish Labour vote...(and need it to have any serious chance of ousting the Condemn party)......seriously though, I don't think it's being in the Uk per se that's draining Scotland...London drains the rest of the UK (including Scotland). That's what needs to be addressed.

Scots....Please don't abandon the rest of us..........

OK this is somewhat interesting...how is London 'draining' Scotland, or the rest of the UK?

Tax redistribution? If so, how does that work?

The UK would do better with a federal system which clearly spells out the rights of each country within a federalized nation-state. The existing system has indeed been bad for Scotland, at least until they got their own parliament, which has limited powers.

Of course this is political!
Jagger. Tory mouthpiece what a bloody shame.

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71Tele
The UK would do better with a federal system which clearly spells out the rights of each country within a federalized nation-state. The existing system has indeed been bad for Scotland, at least until they got their own parliament, which has limited powers.

OK I've heard this a few times now, and I'm wondering if anyone can specifically state what has been bad for Scotland?

If I'm comparing the Quebec/Canada relationship, one cannot say it has been bad for Quebec.

I'm wondering what the difference is in the Scotland/UK case?

Is it simply an economic issue? In the case of Alberta/Canada, I've seen the argument that Alberta would be better off because the powerful economics that come to play with the oil and gas resources.

Different areas of countries will always generate different levels of wealth, and that will change over time. If we suddenly started using less oil, because alternative power took off, Alberta would become a basket case.

You could state that California would have been better off on it's own...it was kind of like its own mini-country anyway with the large population base and diversified industries.

I doubt few would argue it would have been better off on it's own though.

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treaclefingers

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EddieByword

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Gemini

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

It would be economic suicide for the rest of the UK to not carry on a shared currency with Scotland. This currency talk is just the Better Together campaign trying to scare people in to voting no.

Cameron has already said he would support a Scottish application to enter the EU if that's what the people of Scotland want.

Scotland has so much potential as an independent country, being part of the UK is seriously draining it and holding it back. It's not about nationalism, it's about the country making the best of it's vast resources and reaping the benefits instead of huge chunks of that going down south.

The UK is not better together, it's been a mess for decades.

Well, this is what Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (for what he's worth) have said - no pound - but then, yes, who ever heard of a politician reneging on their statements.....

Better together....anyone who supports Labour would want the Scots to stay, they might not like haggis and a Glasgow kiss but they sure like the Scottish Labour vote...(and need it to have any serious chance of ousting the Condemn party)......seriously though, I don't think it's being in the Uk per se that's draining Scotland...London drains the rest of the UK (including Scotland). That's what needs to be addressed.

Scots....Please don't abandon the rest of us..........

OK this is somewhat interesting...how is London 'draining' Scotland, or the rest of the UK?

Tax redistribution? If so, how does that work?

Basically, unfair investment in infrastructure and local services which is Londoncentric.
I'm not going to pretend I know everything or even a lot about this but from what I gather from hearing MPs arguing about on TV is that tax from individuals and businesses and rent from local government owned housing stock is collected from all over the country and then divvied up (as they say over here) with London councils (and businesses who often get big grants) with the biggest appetite for money at the front of the queue and Tory politicians (and to be fair even the last Labour government under Tony bliar) too willing to hand it to them ad infinitum. (Got to keep London going, see?)
One example of that London sponge soak up, I was talking to a local councilor about recently. there are about 15 council owned housing estates in the local borough, each with 10 - 20,000 houses.
The one I was talking to him about is a large one. It generates £2 million per week in rent. All these house are 1930's stock with no money owed by the Council on them. ie. Mortage free.
Despite that the council can only afford - get this - 2 labourers to do general maintenance like paint railings of kids parks, fix the swings etc, and two pick up trucks.
Essentials like rubbish collection, street lighting, the police, schools etc are paid for by a separate Council tax - depends how big your house is as to how much you pay - but as I say, hold on, where is that two million quid a week going then?
Well, I found out, straight to the exchequer in London. So all the money people use to pay their rent earned in their jobs, whether it be in the local steel works or supermarket goes straight out of the area via the local rent collection office.
That's the gripe, not only in Scotland but Wales, Northern Ireland, the great forgotten North & North East of England, the Midlands, and Devon & Cornwall in the South west...........2 million quid goes to London and you get enough of it back pay for a couple of pick ups and drivers..............so...
and also, in the meantime all the local libraries, swimming pools and school playing fields are being closed and sold off because there's no money to keep them going, meanwhile London gets a new £16 billion underground train line and there's a lot of talk of a new runway for London's Heathrow airport.............

And that's just the issue of rent from housing stock,(15 estates x Av £1.5 mill = 22.5. million - going out of the area per week - and that's just one small town with a population of approx 1/4 million) nevermind the taxes raised locally that also goes straight up 'the smoke' - (slang for London)...

Sorry, you did ask..............



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-11 00:05 by EddieByword.

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treaclefingers
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I don't know what the issues are for Scotland, but for Quebec they really don't have actual issues.

Anyway, that separatist argument is dead...they regularly poll in the low to mid 30 percent range for support and I only see that shrinking over time.

Here is stealth way that Quebecers really have a good thing going. Ever since they threatened to leave 40 years ago the rest of Canada has gone overboard to accommodate them via national bilingual laws. Most Federal civil servants are required to be bilingual. This has resulted in Quebec people being vastly over represented in the Federal bureaucracy thus in positions to tilt spending and other matters in Quebec's favor.

Because in today's world educated French speakers need to learn English too
While educated English speakers do not need to know French to communicate with say educated Chinese, Japanese and Indians plus a heck of a lot more of the worlds publishing and communications are done in English than in French. My guess is 60x more.

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EddieByword

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treaclefingers

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EddieByword

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Gemini

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

It would be economic suicide for the rest of the UK to not carry on a shared currency with Scotland. This currency talk is just the Better Together campaign trying to scare people in to voting no.

Cameron has already said he would support a Scottish application to enter the EU if that's what the people of Scotland want.

Scotland has so much potential as an independent country, being part of the UK is seriously draining it and holding it back. It's not about nationalism, it's about the country making the best of it's vast resources and reaping the benefits instead of huge chunks of that going down south.

The UK is not better together, it's been a mess for decades.

Well, this is what Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (for what he's worth) have said - no pound - but then, yes, who ever heard of a politician reneging on their statements.....

Better together....anyone who supports Labour would want the Scots to stay, they might not like haggis and a Glasgow kiss but they sure like the Scottish Labour vote...(and need it to have any serious chance of ousting the Condemn party)......seriously though, I don't think it's being in the Uk per se that's draining Scotland...London drains the rest of the UK (including Scotland). That's what needs to be addressed.

Scots....Please don't abandon the rest of us..........

OK this is somewhat interesting...how is London 'draining' Scotland, or the rest of the UK?

Tax redistribution? If so, how does that work?

Basically, unfair investment in infrastructure and local services which is Londoncentric.
I'm not going to pretend I know everything or even a lot about this but from what I gather from hearing MPs arguing about on TV is that tax from individuals and businesses and rent from local government owned housing stock is collected from all over the country and then divvied up (as they say over here) with London councils (and businesses who often get big grants) with the biggest appetite for money at the front of the queue and Tory politicians (and to be fair even the last Labour government under Tony bliar) too willing to hand it to them ad infinitum. (Got to keep London going, see?)
One example of that London sponge soak up, I was talking to a local councilor about recently. there are about 15 council owned housing estates in the local borough, each with 10 - 20,000 houses.
The one I was talking to him about is a large one. It generates £2 million per week in rent. All these house are 1930's stock with no money owed by the Council on them. ie. Mortage free.
Despite that the council can only afford - get this - 2 labourers to do general maintenance like paint railings of kids parks, fix the swings etc, and two pick up trucks.
Essentials like rubbish collection, street lighting, the police, schools etc are paid for by a separate Council tax - depends how big your house is as to how much you pay - but as I say, hold on, where is that two million quid a week going then?
Well, I found out, straight to the exchequer in London. So all the money people use to pay their rent earned in their jobs, whether it be in the local steel works or supermarket goes straight out of the area via the local rent collection office.
That's the gripe, not only in Scotland but Wales, Northern Ireland, the great forgotten North & North East of England, the Midlands, and Devon & Cornwall in the South west...........2 million quid goes to London and you get enough of it back pay for a couple of pick ups and drivers..............so...
and also, in the meantime all the local libraries, swimming pools and school playing fields are being closed and sold off because there's no money to keep them going, meanwhile London gets a new £16 billion underground train line and there's a lot of talk of a new runway for London's Heathrow airport.............

And that's just the issue of rent from housing stock,(15 estates x Av £1.5 mill = 22.5. million - going out of the area per week - and that's just one small town with a population of approx 1/4 million) nevermind the taxes raised locally that also goes straight up 'the smoke' - (slang for London)...

Sorry, you did ask..............

Don't forget the Barnett Formula (dates back to Labour treasury minister in the 1970s...) This gives a subsidy from UK central government to Scotland of approx £4 Billion per annum. I guess all government money is quoted and moved around for political reasons - its impossible to get a straight answer.

If there is a Yes vote we'll only really find out who wins financially a couple of years after Independence. Then the costs of separation, the currency, the EU, the moves both ways of business locations will be clear.

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EddieByword

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71Tele

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

True, but the EU let in Bulgaria, for God's sake, so I don't really see how an independent Scotland would have a problem. It's likely a moot point anyway, as most believe the "no" vote will win out and Scotland will end up with some further form of devolution.

I do hope you're right about the moot point, I think the problem with re-applying for the EU is there's a queue and it doesn't happen overnight, they might find themselves out on a limb for a few years........

The biggest question is whether Spain would veto their membership. It does not want to set a precedent that will allow its own separatist regions to leave and retain EU membership. There are further questions around the requirement of new member states to join the Eurozone and sign up to the Schengen agreement. There is NO WAY England will allow an open border and may well veto Scottish membership if this requirement is not waived.

Currency:

[www.heraldscotland.com]



EU:

[www.scotsman.com]

Scotland would be “exempt” from the process as it is already a signatory to core requirements for nation states in areas as such employment rights and equality legislation because of its 40-year membership of the EU as part of the UK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-11 14:43 by Gemini.

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EddieByword

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treaclefingers

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EddieByword

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Gemini

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EddieByword

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71Tele
I do believe the SNP's idea is that an independent Scotland would keep the pound and the Queen as Head of State (as Australia, NZ have). Any Scots here that can confirm that?

You don't have to be Scottish to know that's what Alex Salmond wants but both the Labour Party and Cons have told him it won't happen.......(nor will they remain in the EU. They'll have to re-apply and prove it's worthwhile letting them be a member....

It would be economic suicide for the rest of the UK to not carry on a shared currency with Scotland. This currency talk is just the Better Together campaign trying to scare people in to voting no.

Cameron has already said he would support a Scottish application to enter the EU if that's what the people of Scotland want.

Scotland has so much potential as an independent country, being part of the UK is seriously draining it and holding it back. It's not about nationalism, it's about the country making the best of it's vast resources and reaping the benefits instead of huge chunks of that going down south.

The UK is not better together, it's been a mess for decades.

Well, this is what Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (for what he's worth) have said - no pound - but then, yes, who ever heard of a politician reneging on their statements.....

Better together....anyone who supports Labour would want the Scots to stay, they might not like haggis and a Glasgow kiss but they sure like the Scottish Labour vote...(and need it to have any serious chance of ousting the Condemn party)......seriously though, I don't think it's being in the Uk per se that's draining Scotland...London drains the rest of the UK (including Scotland). That's what needs to be addressed.

Scots....Please don't abandon the rest of us..........

OK this is somewhat interesting...how is London 'draining' Scotland, or the rest of the UK?

Tax redistribution? If so, how does that work?

Basically, unfair investment in infrastructure and local services which is Londoncentric.
I'm not going to pretend I know everything or even a lot about this but from what I gather from hearing MPs arguing about on TV is that tax from individuals and businesses and rent from local government owned housing stock is collected from all over the country and then divvied up (as they say over here) with London councils (and businesses who often get big grants) with the biggest appetite for money at the front of the queue and Tory politicians (and to be fair even the last Labour government under Tony bliar) too willing to hand it to them ad infinitum. (Got to keep London going, see?)
One example of that London sponge soak up, I was talking to a local councilor about recently. there are about 15 council owned housing estates in the local borough, each with 10 - 20,000 houses.
The one I was talking to him about is a large one. It generates £2 million per week in rent. All these house are 1930's stock with no money owed by the Council on them. ie. Mortage free.
Despite that the council can only afford - get this - 2 labourers to do general maintenance like paint railings of kids parks, fix the swings etc, and two pick up trucks.
Essentials like rubbish collection, street lighting, the police, schools etc are paid for by a separate Council tax - depends how big your house is as to how much you pay - but as I say, hold on, where is that two million quid a week going then?
Well, I found out, straight to the exchequer in London. So all the money people use to pay their rent earned in their jobs, whether it be in the local steel works or supermarket goes straight out of the area via the local rent collection office.
That's the gripe, not only in Scotland but Wales, Northern Ireland, the great forgotten North & North East of England, the Midlands, and Devon & Cornwall in the South west...........2 million quid goes to London and you get enough of it back pay for a couple of pick ups and drivers..............so...
and also, in the meantime all the local libraries, swimming pools and school playing fields are being closed and sold off because there's no money to keep them going, meanwhile London gets a new £16 billion underground train line and there's a lot of talk of a new runway for London's Heathrow airport.............

And that's just the issue of rent from housing stock,(15 estates x Av £1.5 mill = 22.5. million - going out of the area per week - and that's just one small town with a population of approx 1/4 million) nevermind the taxes raised locally that also goes straight up 'the smoke' - (slang for London)...

Sorry, you did ask..............

Sounds like the UK is in serious need of tax reform as well as more devolution of government to local areas.