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DandelionPowdermanQuote
kleermakerQuote
kevinkamphuis
It's not meant to be "better". It's different than what we have. It gives you an insight how it could sound.Quote
Mathijs
Errrrr, this version has been available for 20 years. It's totally and utterly not interesting when you or me take an outtake and remix it with an audio tool. In fact, you are ruining musical history by making your own mixes, with 'the two solo's now panned to the right'.
Really, it's as interesting as dubbing fart sounds over a bad 1976 audience tape.
Mathijs
The Stones themselves already did this with the archive release of The Brussels affair. It didn't sound like that in 1973...
Yes, and THEY did a bad job.
On BS??
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O2
which version from CD VOL 1 Tim Trip??? Track 6 (Muscle Shoals) ??
thank tou
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kleermakerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
kleermakerQuote
kevinkamphuis
It's not meant to be "better". It's different than what we have. It gives you an insight how it could sound.Quote
Mathijs
Errrrr, this version has been available for 20 years. It's totally and utterly not interesting when you or me take an outtake and remix it with an audio tool. In fact, you are ruining musical history by making your own mixes, with 'the two solo's now panned to the right'.
Really, it's as interesting as dubbing fart sounds over a bad 1976 audience tape.
Mathijs
The Stones themselves already did this with the archive release of The Brussels affair. It didn't sound like that in 1973...
Yes, and THEY did a bad job.
On BS??
I mean the archive release of BA Dandie. Its lifeless sound. But Kevin must have pointed at the hybrid All Down The Line from this release.
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kevinkamphuis
The Stones themselves already did this with the archive release of The Brussels affair. It didn't sound like that in 1973...
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MathijsQuote
kevinkamphuis
The Stones themselves already did this with the archive release of The Brussels affair. It didn't sound like that in 1973...
The official release sounds closer to how the show sounded in 1973 than the processed BA radio broadcast. The fact that most of us prefer the radio broadcast doesn't mean it is a faithful representation of the actual show.
Mathijs
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DandelionPowderman
You can't really compare what you are hearing from the speakers in a room with a line recording, kleerie. It's true that the bootleg gives a more live feel with it's trebly sound, mixed with audience screaming. But there are lots of things missing in that mix that come across kleerer in the official release.
Like Charlie's drum sound or not, let's face it - it's easier to tell what he's playing on the official release. Not to mention Bill...
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kevinkamphuis
Kleermaker already pointed it out: the hybrid ADTL and the lifeless sound...
That said, the official BA sounds clean, mastered hot with little dynamic range ( almost like a modern day recording) and with awful compression on charlie's drum kit. The radio broadcast mix on the other hand is somewhat unbalanced (not perfect), but that's exactly how they sound live in 1973.
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kleermakerQuote
MathijsQuote
kevinkamphuis
The Stones themselves already did this with the archive release of The Brussels affair. It didn't sound like that in 1973...
The official release sounds closer to how the show sounded in 1973 than the processed BA radio broadcast. The fact that most of us prefer the radio broadcast doesn't mean it is a faithful representation of the actual show.
Mathijs
No it doesn't. I was in Rotterdam 1973, not so much different from Brussels shows and the bootleg Brussels Definitive and others capture the sound of the show MUCH better than the lifeless archive release does. In fact the archive release doesn't capture it at all.
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MathijsQuote
kleermakerQuote
MathijsQuote
kevinkamphuis
The Stones themselves already did this with the archive release of The Brussels affair. It didn't sound like that in 1973...
The official release sounds closer to how the show sounded in 1973 than the processed BA radio broadcast. The fact that most of us prefer the radio broadcast doesn't mean it is a faithful representation of the actual show.
Mathijs
No it doesn't. I was in Rotterdam 1973, not so much different from Brussels shows and the bootleg Brussels Definitive and others capture the sound of the show MUCH better than the lifeless archive release does. In fact the archive release doesn't capture it at all.
Which is all bollocks. After 41 years you think Rotterdam sounded like BA, but it sure didn't. BA sounds completely different to any audience tape and any soundboard tape, or Preston's live album. And the official BA sounds very close to what you can hear on those mentioned recordings.
Don't get me wrong, I think the bootleg BA is the best ever live recording of any band, but part of its brilliance lies in the recording, mixing and mastering. Take Richards' guitar for example: dark, heavy and moody on the entire tour, and bright and aggressive on the boot BA release.
Mathijs
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DandelionPowderman
Brightness is a keyword for the mixing/mastering of the BA-bootleg.
All the shows I've heard from this tour is more rhythm/bass-heavy (that goes for all instruments, as well as the sound in general). So is the BA-official release.
I'm between a rock and a hard place myself, when it comes to comparing the boot and the official release. As a show (which it isn't, really), I tend to enjoy the bootleg the most. As a recording, hearing all the nuances, flaws and wobbles, the official release might be a bit better.
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kleermakerQuote
kevinkamphuisQuote
kleermaker
I think I've heard this one before. Thanks anyway.
Much better than the SF studio version!
You can't. This version is mixed a week ago. I also have a mix with the 2 MT solo's panned to the right.
It's the same mix as the one long available, with the exception of the 2 solo's done by Mick Taylor.
In this version his solo's are mixed much louder.
You're totally right. I love it better than the first version and of course better than the dull SF version with that sax. But the best renditions of this song are given during the 1970 tour.
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DandelionPowderman
Keep in mind that the BA-bootleg is tampered with in the studio (with added sax, among other things), kleerie. It sounds great, but it is doctored to be presented on a radio show (as well as a planned live release) by Mick Jagger.
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DandelionPowderman
It doesn't help that Taylor plays better than ever, if the rhythm-mix isn't up to par, does it?
I can agree with that on a couple of songs Taylor is a little low in the mix on the official release, but there is a reason for that, probably. If you listen, for instance, to the GS-solos, they aren't as good as on other shows on the tour.
The only songs we can compare with are really MR and BS - they are from the same show as some of the songs on the bootleg. IMO, BS is WAY better mixed on the official release, and it has sound problems during the first have on the bootleg as well. MR is better on the bootleg, much due to the chaotic audience sound, that excels the brilliant performance.
The world isn't black and white, kleerie
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Mathijs
This is one of the ten or so takes available. It's great to listen to all takes starting with the one from Muscle Shoals and ending with the final, released take; you can hear what Jagger and Richards had in mind for this track, while trying out different parts like rhythm and solo guitars. In the end all guitars except for Richards original rhythm track are erased, and new tracks are overdubbed by Richards himself.
Mathijs
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DandelionPowderman
You're crazy, kleerie! Gotta give you credit for that Taylor-tunnel vision
This is the official GS:
Taylor in the left speaker, Keith in the right. Brilliant bass and drums (no, you don't hear Bill's playing like this on other releases) in the middle. Every instrument is crystal clear, unlike on other releases.
Taylor's soloing while Mick is singing is wisely lowered down a bit, to be able to hear what he is singing
For his solo spots in the song, his sound is turned up.
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DandelionPowderman
You're crazy, kleerie! Gotta give you credit for that Taylor-tunnel vision
This is the official GS:
Taylor in the left speaker, Keith in the right. Brilliant bass and drums (no, you don't hear Bill's playing like this on other releases) in the middle. Every instrument is crystal clear, unlike on other releases.
Taylor's soloing while Mick is singing is wisely lowered down a bit, to be able to hear what he is singing
For his solo spots in the song, his sound is turned up.
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kleermaker
If you listen carefully to the official Brussels you can hear that Keith's guitar is in the right channel, but 'leaning' to the middle, while Taylor's is on the extreme left side of the left channel. The effect is that Taylor is isolated from the band's sound and Keith is the centre of it. In the soundboard versions (Brussels/London/Rotterdam) this isn't the case. So in those soundboard songs the sound is more organic and dynamic, while in the official Brussels the sound is disintegrated (and also sterile and lifeless). Crystal clear is in that case of much minor importance if of any.
Hi Mathijs... Whatever happened to the Pierre questions you requested???Quote
Mathijs
This is one of the ten or so takes available. It's great to listen to all takes starting with the one from Muscle Shoals and ending with the final, released take; you can hear what Jagger and Richards had in mind for this track, while trying out different parts like rhythm and solo guitars. In the end all guitars except for Richards original rhythm track are erased, and new tracks are overdubbed by Richards himself.
Mathijs
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moonlightaffairQuote
kleermaker
If you listen carefully to the official Brussels you can hear that Keith's guitar is in the right channel, but 'leaning' to the middle, while Taylor's is on the extreme left side of the left channel. The effect is that Taylor is isolated from the band's sound and Keith is the centre of it. In the soundboard versions (Brussels/London/Rotterdam) this isn't the case. So in those soundboard songs the sound is more organic and dynamic, while in the official Brussels the sound is disintegrated (and also sterile and lifeless). Crystal clear is in that case of much minor importance if of any.
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