For years now I have become more and more frustrated with the intrusive and dominant spot Chuck Leavell fills within the sound of the Rolling Stones. This has always been a guitar driven band, but the sound was greatly enhanced by Stu, Nicky, and briefly Mac. Once Chuck came on board I feel there has been a general decline in the overall sound of this band. Could be of course that Keith and Ronnie aren't bringing it the way they used, but that is food for another another thread all together. To get Mac back with the Stones would be cause for celebration. I also think a fantastic addition would be Geraint Watkins. His style reminds me of what Stu used to bring to the Stones with that barrelhouse/ boogie woogie sensibility that made the Stones songs swing. Also Mac/Watkins are Brits leavin the Stones a full fledged UK outfit again. Leave the horn section and backing vocals at home guys. Keep it simple and dump the Chuckster in the dumpster.

I agree...@#$%& Chuck.

Everybody who was at the Roayal Theater Dury Lane will agree that Mac is the man.

I didn't catch the Drury Lane gig, but I have seen Mac and the Bump band twice in the past 8 months. Mac is playing great and his backing vocals would also be welcome. I think the reason the Stones would not bring him back would be due to Ronnies drinking problem and possible gangup of Keith, Ronnie, and Mac against MJ. Mac of course is known to enjoy a pint or three.

couldn't agree with you less. Chuck's a first-rate player - much more accomplished than Mac (whom I love). And, Chuck's role is WAAAAAY beyond a mere keyboard player. Suffice it to say the Stones might not even bother without Chuck's presence, leadership and guidance at this stage. I realize many people don't want to hear that or believe - but it's the God's-honest truth.

Get over it - Chuck's here to stay and you should all be grateful or we probably wouldn't even be talking about an '05 tour...

I didn't say Chuck can't play. I just don't like him up in the mix. I am also aware of his role within the band. I disagree though about the Stones "needing" him. I believe they would find their way, if in fact they really wanted to get it together and continue playing. If they really have to have Chuck Leavell or anyone else apart from the core band members to guide them, maybe it is time for them to hang it up?

filstan Wrote:
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> maybe it is
> time for them to hang it up?


disagree again. as people get older, they often find things that they used to do without thinking about it - just drudgery and not worth the effort. if you are fortunate (and the Stones qualify, certainly), you have the opportunity to "outsource" the no-fun part of the job and retain the rest. That's what Chuck does for the Stones. But, they wouldn't trust that to just anyone. That's why there are very unlikely to change a "winning team" at this late stage - that goes for Chuck and the rest of the b-team.

Why do people keep blaming Chuck for everything. I guess it is easy to blame him rather than Keith and Ronnie but don't you think the Stones like him and have him that high in the mix for certain reasons. Everyone talks about how smart Mick is when it comes to putting on good shows, I think he would realize the sound was not right in the 20 something years Chuck has been with the band. Fact is Chuck is more of the musical director in the band because Keith and Mick want it that way. They are the ones in control, they would not let some guy who they think can't play the piano come in and take over their band. While I loved Nicky Hopkin, Preston and Mac playing with them, the Stones make these decesions so why blame Chuck. The only people who can be blamed for the sound is Keith and Ron. We all know the Charlie and Mick bring their best every night.

I have nothing against Chuck; I just want my Stones back.

T&A you make valid points and yes, the Stones are extremely unlikely to change what has been a winning formula road team for many tours. I have seen them enough on tours over the past 36 years and know these guys don't like to tinker much with things. I only yearn fom a more simple setup without the extra horns, and back up vocals. I am tired of the big stage lineup. Bring it back down to 1978 terms.

filstan - I'm with you on the sentiment 100%. But, I prefer pragmatism to nostalgia when I consider the Stones in this day and age. You can't go back. I'm amazed and grateful we're getting "any version" of the Stones 40 years and counting since the start. truly remarkable.

One other thing about Chuck that I like to remind/suggest once in awhile on these bash-Chuck threads: it's more his personality/looks that many Stones fans have a negative reaction to. he's a "southern gentlemen" - not a rabble rouser like Mac - and that bothers some folks more than they'll admit. This bias transfers over to their belief that Chuck can't play or "plinks" or some ridiculous crap like that. he's a stud of a player - well-schooled in many styles - a great blend of Mac's barrel-house and Nicky's more "orchestral" approach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-19 21:08 by T&A.

Leave Chuck alone - he just fills in the holes in the performance.

What about not focus this discussion on Chuck; but on the Rolling Stones Big band... What do you guys say - is this really necessary... ? And is it totally incredible that they may become & more energy-filled & powerful band if they did cut off some dead weight... ?

Edward Twining Wrote:
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> Leave Chuck alone - he just fills in the holes in
> the performance.


Yeah, I like those holes in the performance. So Chuck has got to go!

Obviously Mick and Keith think Chuck is vital for the band since they keep asking for his services.
Chuck is not the one who's playing in a sloppy way so let's focus on the guitars and hope for some
improvement in that department instead.


Chuck after trying to convince Mick to play
Time Waits For No One and Sway on the 2005-06 Tour.

filstan Wrote:
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Bring it back down to 1978 terms.


Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it. :-) Like Chuck or not, the guitar section is not dependable nor consistent enough to carry the show. I think Chuck (and the horns, and the singers) is Mick's insurance that a professional show will be presented. Which for the money being charged, is a necessity.

My first two Stones' shows were Philadelphia and Cleveland 78. Both shows were very bad.

Karl

'Don’t forget, if you’re on your bike, wear white'

The tapes from the Philly 78 shows don't sound bad at all to me. The Stones have clunker shows on every tour. When the guitar players aren't on their game, a more frequent occurance with each progressing tour, well the shows tend to not work so well. I think everyone who follows these guys would agree. Yes, the other players cover up for Keith and Ronnies mistakes. Perhaps the horns and backing vocalists have allowed Keith and Ronnie too much room to coast, i.e. mugging, and not playing. With less backing players the guitar players would have to concentrate more on playing and @#$%& around less on stage. I don't think Ronnie and Keith are the players they once were, but they are still capable. Just keep them turned up in the mix and let us hear em warts and all. I accept them as they are and I'm happy they are still at the game. A lot more theater shows would be nice. They could do it and still fill their bank accounts again. These big outdoor stadium gigs are getting old and the ticket situation remains as @#$%& up as ever. Yea, I know pay up and shut up, we're not worthy...just happy they are still playing.

You have a point about the other musicians. If they're not there, maybe Keith/Ron focus a little more. Last tour they played a couple of numbers four-piece at the beginning of the show. Didn't sound that bad.

I was just asking somebody yesterday about a 78 Philly boot. Do you know a title? How good/bad is the recording?

Cheers,
Karl

'Don’t forget, if you’re on your bike, wear white'

I think that Mick and Keith really rely on Chuck to be that " no nonsense " type of guy who 's gonna get the job done .The tours keep on getting bigger and bigger and there is a lot at stake. I think the Mick has enough on his mind just worrying about Ronnie and even Keith at times. Chuck allows him a sense of confidence that the music/ set will be solid and if Keith and Ron are really hot on a particular night, well, that's just gravy! I don’t really like Chuck’s sound either but he might be the only guy that’s gonna be really dedicated to keeping it all together outside of Mick Jagger...I know there are nights where Mick is carrying the whole show on his shoulders but he is always gonna get that help from Chuck....

well-put, bassaleman....

My main grip is why the heck they can't use a REAL PIANO!

They easily have enough cash to hire a piano tech. And if they didn't want to haul one around, they could even buy a Steinway grand piano in every town they play!

As good as are, digital keyboards will never replace the sound of a piano. They cart around all this vintage guitar gear, so why not quality keys... you think Keith would play a digital guitar? I don't think so.

If Willie Nelson's sister gets a piano at his shows, then certainly the Stones can get Chuck one. You think Jerry Lee Lewis would play a chep keyboard? Even Ryan Adams has a real piano is his band...

GET A REAL PIANO!!!

Yes bassaleman you said it right. As for a real piano, they haven't brought one along since Stew died have they? Good idea, anyone in the band listening?

"I think that Mick and Keith really rely on Chuck to be that " no nonsense " type of guy who 's gonna get the job done .The tours keep on getting bigger and bigger and there is a lot at stake. I think the Mick has enough on his mind just worrying about Ronnie and even Keith at times. Chuck allows him a sense of confidence that the music/ set will be solid and if Keith and Ron are really hot on a particular night, well, that's just gravy! I don’t really like Chuck’s sound either but he might be the only guy that’s gonna be really dedicated to keeping it all together outside of Mick Jagger...I know there are nights where Mick is carrying the whole show on his shoulders but he is always gonna get that help from Chuck...." (bassaleman, above)

Psychosocialogically (?/"puh") I believe Chuckie is an expression for the power balance in the band. In the Stones´ objectively interest is to run the business as profitable as possible. But that´s not necessarily in the hard core fans´ nor in the rock music´s interest.
I see & hear Keith influence get smaller & smaller & his space on stage more & more less. He shrinks till he´s almost no one. That+s why you see him & Woody messin up or jokin, saying stuff anbout Mick & posin etc etc. Jagger is the Captain that Rebel Jack Sparrow soon will throw over board. What we´ve heard since last Tuesday and the PC is hard core fans from all over the world (this is not the only board where those opinions have been read) is a reflection of the music
Jagger´s best is brought out of Richards at best. The other way around more rarely happens; but I wont say it´s unheard of. But Chuckie is like a Berlin Wall between the Glimmer Twins. Let these two geezer´s find each other again, let the fookin Glimmer Twins glimmer & shine like they used to do.

As I noted in another thread, an article in today's NY Times indicates Chuck will be touring with the Stones though it may contain some factual errors.

I totaly agree with T&A, GET OVER IT! Chuck is a great pianist/kerboard player and the band is DAMN LUCKY to have Chuck! Ian Stewart died, Mac is gone so MOVE ON! Mick obviously thinks Chuck does a fine job and he is rather fussy! I AM SO SICK OF FOLKS BASHING CHUCK! We should be more concerned about just getting a ticket that doesn't require us to remortage our homes!

Havent done a thoroughly research; but it may be so that Chuckie is more popular in the States.... If so; an idea: Why dont they let him play along the (North?) American led... And then stay there while gettin to the Old World.
At least I prefer a Stones more alike what they were back at the Crawdaddy or in Ya-Ya´s, Exile´s, CSB-movie´s, Brussels´or why not Some Girls-period!

Mac was on fine form at the Drury lane gig.Maybe Mick fears Mac and Ronnie might slip back into old habits.

Sorry Debra there are many people who are not big Chuck fans within the context of his playing in the Rolling Stones. I accept that you really like his work with the band, but there are many of us who would be happy to see him go. I happen to like their music better without him. In the end you win, because of course he won't be canned. I guess the simple solution is to just turn him down in the mix except for the stage monitors. That way the band won't get lost and we don't have to hear him over the guitars.

Well, when I talked to Mac (when he lived out here in the 80's and 90's),
the impression I got from him was he was a little peeved about the payment he got.
of course chemical problems didn't help, either. The Stones don't pay very much.
RedneckRobot makes a good point. The use of a real (acoustic) piano
could help the sound in a big way. Speaking as a musician, I can't stand
the sound of those things that Chuck uses. Nothing beats the sound of a real piano
and a real Hammond through a Leslie. Compare Preston's piano sound in "75
to Chuck's today. NOw Chuck is fine keyboard player. No one is doubting that.
I prefer Mac and Preston's style. What they don't have is the personality
to walk into rehearsals with the 2 notebooks of songs, work with Jagger, etc.
which is what Chuck does and why he's there.
Perhaps an acoustic piano would help regarding the mix with guuitars, etc...
but...ain't gonna happen.

To Baboon Bro I'm stating that Chuck's role is a job that has to be done. Period. Nothing personal or social with or between Mick and the other guys .No power Plays. I 'm sure Keith couldn't give a shit...Chuck is like an insurance policy, a sure thing , someone who is gonna know the songs, how they go and not get lost in the moment/drink , drug or what ever else. The show has to go on ,no matter what and with Chuck that is more likely to happen. Plain and simple. I too mourn the loss of the old Stones guitar sound but we aren't getting that back if Chuck suddenly disappears...If anything,I think that Keith and Ron appreciate the fact that he is up there with them when things get lets say a little loose for the lack of a better term...to help bring it all back together.