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I really like this. And I do think that there are examples like this in every language around the world. Just like every language changes with the people using that language. But spelling is different to speaking, and in every language there are rules that say which spelling is correct and which spelling is wrong.
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Keep On Rolling
Been a teacher myself for 33 years LOL, yep I know what you mean.
BTW, I also know that my sentence above is not correct English
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Keep On Rolling
But believe me, in English it so easy to hear! But the other way around, it would be much harder for you to discern the words of a Dutch sentence, even when you've read it. Such a sentence would seem like one long word. In English this isn't the case. I tell you: I started learning English and French at the same age (12), and at the same level and during the same number of lessons. But spoken French appeared much more difficult to understand. And no, it wasn't because of tv or movie, because we didn't have a tv and I was too young to go to movies regularly, regardless of the language that was spoken in them. Is it so hard to accept that English is a relatively easy language to learn for (almost) all people, regardless of their mother tongue?
I've said if before, but almost everybody here speaks English in a way they can understand you and you them. But that isn't the matter concerning French and German, even if those people got those lessons in school too. And again, not because of tv or/and movie.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-09 02:24 by kleermaker.
Wish they spoke English more eloquently and coherently over here! Just hear the language get butchered....
All the bad spelling on this forum must drive you nuts!
Spelling mistakes in general don't drive me nuts, not being perfect myself, but that one does, for some reason. I think it's because to use the word "of" in that context ("should of") just doesn't make sense!
Doesn't all the bad spelling and grammar make you just want to jump in since that was your vocation?
No, not really, thank goodness--I was a literature prof, so it was more a case of having to correct spelling/grammar, since accuracy really is important, but I was actually more interested in what people were saying. Like here.
That's good.
Have found gestures help understanding, too.
Some of my British (i.e. English and Welsh!) friends think they can hear American overtones in my accent, but I think it's much the same as it always was, myself!
::catching up in here:
GreenLady, I quite enjoyed this post, makes so much sense!
~"Love is Strong"~
I guess it is possible that there are now some American overtones that have muscled their way into your accent, but perhaps it is the change in phrases and the Americanisms that you now use in everyday speak - presuming you say 'sidewalk' and not 'pavement' and 'bathroom' and not 'toilets' etc - that make your friends believe there has been a gradual blurring of your English accent.
Could well be. It's true that I do speak American when I'm here, but I find I adapt to speaking British English--or at least English English--pretty quickly when I go over there. But I must slip up occasionally, and it makes more sense that it would be that more than my actual accent, which I really don't think has changed.
It would be too bad if you used the word 'bathroom' instead of 'toilets'. Pissing in a bathroom has always seemed very weird to me.
Then you say I'll go to the bathroom if you have to take a shower and I'll go to the toilet if you have to piss. But of course we are talking here about public places concerning this matter: cinemas, restaurants etc. I guess there are no bathrooms in those places in Britain.
If I ask the question, I literally mean 'British.' I guess because there are so many other English-speaking countries who sound nothing like the Brits.
I'd call England.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: January 9, 2014 02:05
Quote
mr_dja
"Should have" is correctly contracted to "should've" which PHONETICLY in much of the USA is not far from "should of" which then got shortend (in slang) to "shoulda". I can't tell you how many times I've heard my grandfather and father use the phrase "Woulda, coulda, shoulda" when I gave them an excuse for not having done something.
I really like this. And I do think that there are examples like this in every language around the world. Just like every language changes with the people using that language. But spelling is different to speaking, and in every language there are rules that say which spelling is correct and which spelling is wrong.
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: January 9, 2014 02:08
Quote
Aquamarine
as a teacher I used to have to spend hours and hours correcting it!
Been a teacher myself for 33 years LOL, yep I know what you mean.
BTW, I also know that my sentence above is not correct English
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Keep On Rolling
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 9, 2014 02:10
Quote
AquamarineQuote
kleermakerQuote
Aquamarine
This is the trouble I have trying to learn Portuguese--words and sentences seem to be blurred into each other.
Dear Aquamarine, this goes for every foreign language:
That's what I said.
And the fact that it DOES apply to English too is what the whole "should a heard him" point was about.
But believe me, in English it so easy to hear! But the other way around, it would be much harder for you to discern the words of a Dutch sentence, even when you've read it. Such a sentence would seem like one long word. In English this isn't the case. I tell you: I started learning English and French at the same age (12), and at the same level and during the same number of lessons. But spoken French appeared much more difficult to understand. And no, it wasn't because of tv or movie, because we didn't have a tv and I was too young to go to movies regularly, regardless of the language that was spoken in them. Is it so hard to accept that English is a relatively easy language to learn for (almost) all people, regardless of their mother tongue?
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 9, 2014 02:21
Well, yes, because of the way I've seen people struggle with it, to be honest! You sound like you had a better experience.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 9, 2014 02:23
Quote
Aquamarine
Well, yes, because of the way I've seen people struggle with it, to be honest! You sound like you had a better experience.
I've said if before, but almost everybody here speaks English in a way they can understand you and you them. But that isn't the matter concerning French and German, even if those people got those lessons in school too. And again, not because of tv or/and movie.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-09 02:24 by kleermaker.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 9, 2014 03:04
I don't know whether any of my fellow Britons will agree with me here, but isn't it peculiar and, somewhat funny, how those English-speakers whom cannot claim English as a 'first language', actually speak the language more eloquently and more coherently than many of those born an bred in Great Britain? I sometimes struggle to understand the yokels - sorry, 'locals' - from my hometown, for instance.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 10, 2014 09:58
Quote
Big Al
I don't know whether any of my fellow Britons will agree with me here, but isn't it peculiar and, somewhat funny, how those English-speakers whom cannot claim English as a 'first language', actually speak the language more eloquently and more coherently than many of those born an bred in Great Britain? I sometimes struggle to understand the yokels - sorry, 'locals' - from my hometown, for instance.
Wish they spoke English more eloquently and coherently over here! Just hear the language get butchered....
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 10, 2014 10:20
Quote
Aquamarine
Yes, I know, but as a teacher I used to have to spend hours and hours correcting it!
All the bad spelling on this forum must drive you nuts!
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 10, 2014 10:35
Quote
owlbyniteQuote
Aquamarine
Yes, I know, but as a teacher I used to have to spend hours and hours correcting it!
All the bad spelling on this forum must drive you nuts!
Spelling mistakes in general don't drive me nuts, not being perfect myself, but that one does, for some reason. I think it's because to use the word "of" in that context ("should of") just doesn't make sense!
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 10, 2014 10:51
Quote
AquamarineQuote
owlbyniteQuote
Aquamarine
Yes, I know, but as a teacher I used to have to spend hours and hours correcting it!
All the bad spelling on this forum must drive you nuts!
Spelling mistakes in general don't drive me nuts, not being perfect myself, but that one does, for some reason. I think it's because to use the word "of" in that context ("should of") just doesn't make sense!
Doesn't all the bad spelling and grammar make you just want to jump in since that was your vocation?
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 10, 2014 10:59
Quote
owlbyniteQuote
AquamarineQuote
owlbyniteQuote
Aquamarine
Yes, I know, but as a teacher I used to have to spend hours and hours correcting it!
All the bad spelling on this forum must drive you nuts!
Spelling mistakes in general don't drive me nuts, not being perfect myself, but that one does, for some reason. I think it's because to use the word "of" in that context ("should of") just doesn't make sense!
Doesn't all the bad spelling and grammar make you just want to jump in since that was your vocation?
No, not really, thank goodness--I was a literature prof, so it was more a case of having to correct spelling/grammar, since accuracy really is important, but I was actually more interested in what people were saying. Like here.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 10, 2014 11:17
Quote
AquamarineQuote
owlbyniteQuote
AquamarineQuote
owlbyniteQuote
Aquamarine
Yes, I know, but as a teacher I used to have to spend hours and hours correcting it!
All the bad spelling on this forum must drive you nuts!
Spelling mistakes in general don't drive me nuts, not being perfect myself, but that one does, for some reason. I think it's because to use the word "of" in that context ("should of") just doesn't make sense!
Doesn't all the bad spelling and grammar make you just want to jump in since that was your vocation?
No, not really, thank goodness--I was a literature prof, so it was more a case of having to correct spelling/grammar, since accuracy really is important, but I was actually more interested in what people were saying. Like here.
That's good.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 10, 2014 11:22
There's quite a difference between the way I speak English and the way a native English speaker speaks it though...In Holland we think we all speak English, but most of us are actually quite terrible at it.
But I find English, and Spanish and Portuguese for that matter, easyer to learn than Dutch, German and Scandinavian languages. Enlish is quite logical to me, with a limited set of grammer rules. If you know a decent amount of words you can make yourself understandable. With Dutch and German there's much more grammer cases and catagories, and certain things are not really based on rules but are mere the accepted way of grammer -we don't know why you have to say it like that, but you have to. That makes it difficult to learn.
Mathijs
But I find English, and Spanish and Portuguese for that matter, easyer to learn than Dutch, German and Scandinavian languages. Enlish is quite logical to me, with a limited set of grammer rules. If you know a decent amount of words you can make yourself understandable. With Dutch and German there's much more grammer cases and catagories, and certain things are not really based on rules but are mere the accepted way of grammer -we don't know why you have to say it like that, but you have to. That makes it difficult to learn.
Mathijs
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 12, 2014 08:35
Quote
Mathijs
There's quite a difference between the way I speak English and the way a native English speaker speaks it though...In Holland we think we all speak English, but most of us are actually quite terrible at it.
But I find English, and Spanish and Portuguese for that matter, easyer to learn than Dutch, German and Scandinavian languages. Enlish is quite logical to me, with a limited set of grammer rules. If you know a decent amount of words you can make yourself understandable. With Dutch and German there's much more grammer cases and catagories, and certain things are not really based on rules but are mere the accepted way of grammer -we don't know why you have to say it like that, but you have to. That makes it difficult to learn.
Mathijs
Have found gestures help understanding, too.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 12, 2014 21:59
I want to stray slightly off-topic and ask those in North America a question: when I get asked ‘is that a British accent?’ or, ‘I like your British accent’, do you literally mean ‘British’, or, in fact, ‘English’? It’s just that I cannot imagine an American asking someone with a Glaswegian accent whether they’re anything other than Scottish. They are - for the time being, anyway! - part of Great Britain. But why wouldn't one ask them if they have a 'British' accent?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-12 22:03 by Big Al.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-12 22:03 by Big Al.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 12, 2014 23:45
Good point, Al.
And btw--also off-topic--it drives me totally insane when people comment on my accent, simply because I've lived in the US for decades but my accent has remained the same. So almost everyone I meet asks where I'm from, even though in many cases I've been living here since before the asker was born. Usually it's because they're not sure if I'm from England or Australia. Then they'll say "I really like your accent, say something else!" That's when I get out the weapon of mass destruction.
And btw--also off-topic--it drives me totally insane when people comment on my accent, simply because I've lived in the US for decades but my accent has remained the same. So almost everyone I meet asks where I'm from, even though in many cases I've been living here since before the asker was born. Usually it's because they're not sure if I'm from England or Australia. Then they'll say "I really like your accent, say something else!" That's when I get out the weapon of mass destruction.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 13, 2014 00:44
It's funny you should mention Australia, Aquamarine. A couple of Canadians have mistaken my southern English accent for Australian. Anyway, yes, the 'British accent' comments do peeve me at times. I have now taken to correcting the person(s) by saying: 'yes, I'm British, but this is an English accent. Aquamarine, have you found that you're accent has 'softened' at all?
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 13, 2014 01:01
Quote
Big Al
Aquamarine, have you found that you're accent has 'softened' at all?
Some of my British (i.e. English and Welsh!) friends think they can hear American overtones in my accent, but I think it's much the same as it always was, myself!
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
angee
()
Date: January 13, 2014 01:15
Quote
Green LadyQuote
kleermakerQuote
AquamarineQuote
kleermaker
but imagine it weren't the British but the Chinese or Arabs who 'conquered' the world, would we, all people not having Chinese or Arabic as their mother tongue, all speak, read and write as good Chinese/Arabic as we do English?
Impossible to know, but as we wouldn't have had a choice (any more than all those British colonies had a choice) it's kind of a moot point, really!
Well let me put it this way then: we, non English speaking people, learn English at school and from tv, movies etc, just like some of us learn French and German. Most of us here in Holland are much, much better in English than in German or French. But well, imagine you English-native-tongue-people would have Chinese or Arabic as a regular lesson at school. How do you think your command of (one of) those languages would be? I guess you'll have any idea about the answer. At least I do!
It's always said that the English are lousy at learning other people's languages - because our recent history has meant that most people have had to learn ours, so we don't have to bother. So we don't know how easy it might have been to learn Chinese or Arabic, because we haven't had to try.
But our earlier history was different. The Celts had to learn Latin as part of the Roman Empire, then we were invaded by Angles and Saxons (Germanic), then Vikings (Norse), then Normans (French). Then the intelligentsia learnt Latin and Greek again. Then we had waves of French, Irish and Jewish refugees and immigrants, and now we have Jamaican, Indian, Polish...
The point about English is that it's a mongrel language, with all its history showing in its vocabulary. Our legal system still speaks Norman-French, our scientific vocabulary is Latin/Greek. We are not purists like the French - if a word's useful, we adopt it, just like our favourite band listens to everything and puts it all into the music they make.
::catching up in here:
GreenLady, I quite enjoyed this post, makes so much sense!
~"Love is Strong"~
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 13, 2014 01:33
Quote
AquamarineQuote
Big Al
Aquamarine, have you found that you're accent has 'softened' at all?
Some of my British (i.e. English and Welsh!) friends think they can hear American overtones in my accent, but I think it's much the same as it always was, myself!
I guess it is possible that there are now some American overtones that have muscled their way into your accent, but perhaps it is the change in phrases and the Americanisms that you now use in everyday speak - presuming you say 'sidewalk' and not 'pavement' and 'bathroom' and not 'toilets' etc - that make your friends believe there has been a gradual blurring of your English accent.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 13, 2014 01:56
Quote
Big AlQuote
AquamarineQuote
Big Al
Aquamarine, have you found that you're accent has 'softened' at all?
Some of my British (i.e. English and Welsh!) friends think they can hear American overtones in my accent, but I think it's much the same as it always was, myself!
I guess it is possible that there are now some American overtones that have muscled their way into your accent, but perhaps it is the change in phrases and the Americanisms that you now use in everyday speak - presuming you say 'sidewalk' and not 'pavement' and 'bathroom' and not 'toilets' etc - that make your friends believe there has been a gradual blurring of your English accent.
Could well be. It's true that I do speak American when I'm here, but I find I adapt to speaking British English--or at least English English--pretty quickly when I go over there. But I must slip up occasionally, and it makes more sense that it would be that more than my actual accent, which I really don't think has changed.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 13, 2014 02:01
Quote
AquamarineQuote
Big AlQuote
AquamarineQuote
Big Al
Aquamarine, have you found that you're accent has 'softened' at all?
Some of my British (i.e. English and Welsh!) friends think they can hear American overtones in my accent, but I think it's much the same as it always was, myself!
I guess it is possible that there are now some American overtones that have muscled their way into your accent, but perhaps it is the change in phrases and the Americanisms that you now use in everyday speak - presuming you say 'sidewalk' and not 'pavement' and 'bathroom' and not 'toilets' etc - that make your friends believe there has been a gradual blurring of your English accent.
Could well be. It's true that I do speak American when I'm here, but I find I adapt to speaking British English--or at least English English--pretty quickly when I go over there. But I must slip up occasionally, and it makes more sense that it would be that more than my actual accent, which I really don't think has changed.
It would be too bad if you used the word 'bathroom' instead of 'toilets'. Pissing in a bathroom has always seemed very weird to me.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 13, 2014 02:03
What if the toilet is in the bathroom?
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 13, 2014 02:11
Quote
Aquamarine
What if the toilet is in the bathroom?
Then you say I'll go to the bathroom if you have to take a shower and I'll go to the toilet if you have to piss. But of course we are talking here about public places concerning this matter: cinemas, restaurants etc. I guess there are no bathrooms in those places in Britain.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: January 13, 2014 02:16
Yeah, why do Americans call their public lavatories 'the bathroom', when there is no bath in there?
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: January 13, 2014 02:20
Here in the U.S. the public facilities double as bathrooms, especially in the big cities where you see the homeless using the sinks for shaving, bathing, laundry, etc.
I'm not sure the term "restroom" is especially apt either. I don't find them very restful, the way you would a "rest area" beside a highway, and I don't find myself staying there for any longer than necessary.
When I was around 10, and was roaming with friends in other neighborhoods one day, I stopped at a gas station because I had to use the facilities and asked the sardonically jovial old attendant for the key to the bathroom.
"We don't have a bathroom," the attendant informed me. "We have a shithouse. I can give you the key for the shithouse, if that's what you're lookin' for."
The other attendant laughed heartily as the first attendant handed me the shithouse key.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-13 04:33 by stonehearted.
I'm not sure the term "restroom" is especially apt either. I don't find them very restful, the way you would a "rest area" beside a highway, and I don't find myself staying there for any longer than necessary.
When I was around 10, and was roaming with friends in other neighborhoods one day, I stopped at a gas station because I had to use the facilities and asked the sardonically jovial old attendant for the key to the bathroom.
"We don't have a bathroom," the attendant informed me. "We have a shithouse. I can give you the key for the shithouse, if that's what you're lookin' for."
The other attendant laughed heartily as the first attendant handed me the shithouse key.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-13 04:33 by stonehearted.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 13, 2014 07:52
Quote
Big Al
I want to stray slightly off-topic and ask those in North America a question: when I get asked ‘is that a British accent?’ or, ‘I like your British accent’, do you literally mean ‘British’, or, in fact, ‘English’? It’s just that I cannot imagine an American asking someone with a Glaswegian accent whether they’re anything other than Scottish. They are - for the time being, anyway! - part of Great Britain. But why wouldn't one ask them if they have a 'British' accent?
If I ask the question, I literally mean 'British.' I guess because there are so many other English-speaking countries who sound nothing like the Brits.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 13, 2014 09:43
Scotland is an English-speaking country (mostly) whose inhabitants sound nothing like the inhabitants of England, ditto Wales and Northern Ireland. Which of them has the "British" accent?
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: January 13, 2014 09:58
Quote
Aquamarine
Scotland is an English-speaking country (mostly) whose inhabitants sound nothing like the inhabitants of England, ditto Wales and Northern Ireland. Which of them has the "British" accent?
I'd call England.
Re: OT: American-English Spelling
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: January 13, 2014 10:01
But those other countries are part of Great Britain too.
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