I was listening to Undercover recently (the 1994) version and was wondering does anyone prefer the remastered version? Is there any more bass or depth on it? It seems to have a lot of mid, with very little actual bass on it. It could be just the mix itself.

Would anyone here recommend the new over the old version? Thanks!

I'm going to guess that the majority will say the Virgin.

The one I'd like to recommend is the 2011 remaster version.

As far as quantity of information and the dynamic range are concerned, the 1994 version(or 2009) and the 2011 version form polar opposites.
The 2011 version has shorter version of Wanna Hold You.

If you don't have a SACD player, Platinum SHM is another option.
You can play them on a regular CD player and they are using the 2011 masters.
Undercover will be reissued next year as Platinum SHM disk.

Platinum IORR

Platinum Love You Live

Black triangle CP35-3087 or European version RSR-EMI CDP 7 46024 2.

virgin

I'll stick with the LP

Listen to vinyl guys as the record was made for it

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

2011-- The Lp is better but 2011 is the Best version on cd.

Sadly I don't own a turn table now.

2011 version? What? I thought there was only the 2009 remasters available.

I tought better version was CBS/Sony cd...

Best cheapest option is the original CBS CD. Clear sound, not compressed.

However best sound on CD is now to be found on the 2013 SHM-CD (which use the 2011 DSD master). But it's only available in Japan and can be a bit expensive. I'd say it's worth the price though, because it's full of details you won't hear so well on other editions. For example, Undercover has great percussions parts but somehow burried in the mix. On the SHM-CD you can hear them very well.

Both Virgin 1994 remaster and Universal 2009 remaster use compressed/limited masterings, the worst (and completely unlistenable IMO) being the 2009 remaster.

i am going with option c 1986 master

It seems no one likes Japanese Black Triangle CD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-07 21:04 by ironbelly.

Quote
ironbelly
It seems no one likes Japanese Black Triangle CD.

Is it different from the CBS mastering ?

Quote
kowalski

Quote
ironbelly
It seems no one likes Japanese Black Triangle CD.

Is it different from the CBS mastering ?

Yes. And different version of Wanna Hold You

1st pressing Japan for Europe
Disc - November 7, 1983
Matrix: CDP 7 46024 2 CP35-3087-1 1A2


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / Undercover [CDP 7 46024 2]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14 0.00 dB -14.95 dB 4:33 01-Undercover of the Night
DR12 0.00 dB -14.43 dB 4:42 02-She Was Hot
DR13 0.00 dB -14.77 dB 4:16 03-Tie You Up (The Pain of Love)
DR12 -0.43 dB -15.32 dB 3:16 04-Wanna Hold You
DR15 -1.48 dB -19.13 dB 5:08 05-Feel on Baby
DR13 0.00 dB -15.89 dB 6:15 06-Too Much Blood
DR15 0.00 dB -15.94 dB 4:05 07-Pretty Beat Up
DR13 -0.17 dB -15.54 dB 3:52 08-Too Tough
DR12 -0.55 dB -15.45 dB 3:14 09-All the Way Down
DR14 -0.09 dB -15.84 dB 5:04 10-It Must Be Hell
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

**********
Matrix: CDCBS-450200 12 A3 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTIRA

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / Undercover [CBS]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14 -0.27 dB -16.74 dB 4:33 01-Undercover Of The Night
DR13 0.00 dB -16.16 dB 4:41 02-She Was Hot
DR14 -0.25 dB -16.21 dB 4:16 03-Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
DR13 -2.22 dB -17.34 dB 3:52 04-Wanna Hold You
DR15 -3.02 dB -20.21 dB 5:07 05-Feel On Baby
DR14 -0.21 dB -16.67 dB 6:15 06-Too Much Blood
DR14 -0.56 dB -17.71 dB 4:05 07-Pretty Beat Up
DR13 -1.48 dB -16.82 dB 3:52 08-Too Tough
DR13 -1.63 dB -17.15 dB 3:14 09-All The Way Down
DR14 -0.50 dB -16.40 dB 5:04 10-It Must Be Hell
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
kowalski

Quote
ironbelly
It seems no one likes Japanese Black Triangle CD.

Is it different from the CBS mastering ?

Yes. And different version of Wanna Hold You

1st pressing Japan for Europe
Disc - November 7, 1983
Matrix: CDP 7 46024 2 CP35-3087-1 1A2


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / Undercover [CDP 7 46024 2]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14 0.00 dB -14.95 dB 4:33 01-Undercover of the Night
DR12 0.00 dB -14.43 dB 4:42 02-She Was Hot
DR13 0.00 dB -14.77 dB 4:16 03-Tie You Up (The Pain of Love)
DR12 -0.43 dB -15.32 dB 3:16 04-Wanna Hold You
DR15 -1.48 dB -19.13 dB 5:08 05-Feel on Baby
DR13 0.00 dB -15.89 dB 6:15 06-Too Much Blood
DR15 0.00 dB -15.94 dB 4:05 07-Pretty Beat Up
DR13 -0.17 dB -15.54 dB 3:52 08-Too Tough
DR12 -0.55 dB -15.45 dB 3:14 09-All the Way Down
DR14 -0.09 dB -15.84 dB 5:04 10-It Must Be Hell
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

**********
Matrix: CDCBS-450200 12 A3 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTIRA

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / Undercover [CBS]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14 -0.27 dB -16.74 dB 4:33 01-Undercover Of The Night
DR13 0.00 dB -16.16 dB 4:41 02-She Was Hot
DR14 -0.25 dB -16.21 dB 4:16 03-Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
DR13 -2.22 dB -17.34 dB 3:52 04-Wanna Hold You
DR15 -3.02 dB -20.21 dB 5:07 05-Feel On Baby
DR14 -0.21 dB -16.67 dB 6:15 06-Too Much Blood
DR14 -0.56 dB -17.71 dB 4:05 07-Pretty Beat Up
DR13 -1.48 dB -16.82 dB 3:52 08-Too Tough
DR13 -1.63 dB -17.15 dB 3:14 09-All The Way Down
DR14 -0.50 dB -16.40 dB 5:04 10-It Must Be Hell
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the DR analysis. But maybe it's just a slight difference of EQ?
Can you tell me more about how it sounds? Is it worth searching for?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-08 00:47 by kowalski.

Quote
GasLightStreet

2011 version? What? I thought there was only the 2009 remasters available.

2011 was a DSD flat transfer from the analogue master tapes by Mick McKenna and Richard Whittaker at the FX Copyroom, London.

You can listen the SHM-SACD on a PC/Mac with JRiver, Foobar2000, Audirvana+ or Puremusic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-08 01:45 by Irix.

Quote
hot stuff
2011-- The Lp is better but 2011 is the Best version on cd.

Sadly I don't own a turn table now.

Then get a turntable NOW!

Quote
toomuchforme
Listen to vinyl guys as the record was made for it

It was made for listening to on any format.

I wouldn't bother in any format. Charmless album. A real low point.

Quote
BlackHat
I wouldn't bother in any format. Charmless album. A real low point.

That was worth posting, wasn't it?

Quote
kowalski
Thanks for the DR analysis. But maybe it's just a slight difference of EQ?
Can you tell me more about how it sounds? Is it worth searching for?

It is not only EQ differences. There are some guitar details that sound different. I believe that old Japanese Black Triangle and Japan for Europe CDP was mastered from original LP tape. Although I can not A/B it with recent SHM-SACD.

Anyway it is worth to hunt down just for completist reason. The European version is not that rare and expensive. Black Triangle is different creature in terms of price. Although they were pressed at the same plant from the same matrices.

PS. You got mail



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-08 16:44 by ironbelly.

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
kowalski
Thanks for the DR analysis. But maybe it's just a slight difference of EQ?
Can you tell me more about how it sounds? Is it worth searching for?

It is not only EQ differences. There are some guitar details that sound different. I believe that old Japanese Black Triangle and Japan for Europe CDP was mastered from original LP tape. Although I can not A/B it with recent SHM-SACD.

Anyway it is worth to hunt down just for completist reason. The European version is not that rare and expensive. Black Triangle is different creature in terms of price. Although they were pressed at the same plant from the same matrices.

PS. You got mail

Thank you for your more than complete answer!

Quote
Denny

Quote
BlackHat
I wouldn't bother in any format. Charmless album. A real low point.

That was worth posting, wasn't it?

He's confused. Thinks this is about DIRTY WORK or TSMR.

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
kowalski
Thanks for the DR analysis. But maybe it's just a slight difference of EQ?
Can you tell me more about how it sounds? Is it worth searching for?

It is not only EQ differences. There are some guitar details that sound different. I believe that old Japanese Black Triangle and Japan for Europe CDP was mastered from original LP tape. Although I can not A/B it with recent SHM-SACD.

Anyway it is worth to hunt down just for completist reason. The European version is not that rare and expensive. Black Triangle is different creature in terms of price. Although they were pressed at the same plant from the same matrices.

PS. You got mail

I've checked the files and obviously it's a different mastering but also possibly a different source than the one used for the CBS CD.

The CBS CD has Ted Jensen as digital mastering engineer while Japan CD mentions no particular name. That may explain the differences.

Also the Japan CD is louder by almost 2dB and seems to have a crisper sound but on the other hand it's a bit harsher with trebel levels heavier...

Both editions sound great though and much better than the 90's and 00's remasters.

Quote
kowalski

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
kowalski
Thanks for the DR analysis. But maybe it's just a slight difference of EQ?
Can you tell me more about how it sounds? Is it worth searching for?

It is not only EQ differences. There are some guitar details that sound different. I believe that old Japanese Black Triangle and Japan for Europe CDP was mastered from original LP tape. Although I can not A/B it with recent SHM-SACD.

Anyway it is worth to hunt down just for completist reason. The European version is not that rare and expensive. Black Triangle is different creature in terms of price. Although they were pressed at the same plant from the same matrices.

PS. You got mail

I've checked the files and obviously it's a different mastering but also possibly a different source than the one used for the CBS CD.

The CBS CD has Ted Jensen as digital mastering engineer while Japan CD mentions no particular name. That may explain the differences.

Also the Japan CD is louder by almost 2dB and seems to have a crisper sound but on the other hand it's a bit harsher with trebel levels heavier...

Both editions sound great though and much better than the 90's and 00's remasters.

I think it was usual practice for Japan in the early days of CD production. They made this trick (+2dB and treble up) quite often. It makes old Black Triangles and early Japanese CD special.

Different master tape is also very possible. They include short version of Wanna Hold You there, exactly the same as on LP and new SHM-SACD.

On the other hand, CBS CD is a bit softer and (to my best knowledge) it was not modified. I.e. no matter what edition you'll get Austrian, US or Japanese. For sure - CBS edition is the best bargain today.

Quote
Irix

Quote
GasLightStreet

2011 version? What? I thought there was only the 2009 remasters available.

2011 was a DSD flat transfer from the analogue master tapes by Mick McKenna and Richard Whittaker at the FX Copyroom, London.

You can listen the SHM-SACD on a PC/Mac with JRiver, Foobar2000, Audirvana+ or Puremusic.

The SHM-SACD sounds fantastic - it's pricey, but if you can afford it, it's the best version out there.

also vlc media player