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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<released it as a b-side of "Highwire" single>

On my copy, the B-side was 2000 LYFM

Well, I suppose I have also that one. But the one with "Play With Fire" was a maxi single I recall, having also "2000 Light Years From Home". I'm not sure though, haven't listened or seen it for 20 years or so...

EDIT: just checked from wikipedia, and yeah, the 7 inch single had "I Just Want To Make Love to You", and not "Light Years".

- Doxa

No, the single I have has indeed 2000 LYFM: [rateyourmusic.com]

But I also have a promo vinyl EP, called "Terrifying" - with, among others, both IJWMLTY and Play With Fire

EDIT: Seemingly, the release with Play With Fire was the promo cd that came with some copies of Flashpoint. Phew! It's hard remember everything - but the Highwire single I remember, because I listened to it yesterday



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-05 11:25 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<released it as a b-side of "Highwire" single>

On my copy, the B-side was 2000 LYFM

Well, I suppose I have also that one. But the one with "Play With Fire" was a maxi single I recall, having also "2000 Light Years From Home". I'm not sure though, haven't listened or seen it for 20 years or so...

EDIT: just checked from wikipedia, and yeah, the 7 inch single had "I Just Want To Make Love to You", and not "Light Years".

- Doxa

No, the single I have has indeed 2000 LYFM: [rateyourmusic.com]

But I also have a promo vinyl EP, called "Terrifying" - with, among others, both IJWMLTY and Play With Fire

EDIT: Seemingly, the release with Play With Fire was the promo cd that came with some copies of Flashpoint. Phew! It's hard remember everything - but the Highwire single I remember, because I listened to it yesterday

Sorry, I misspelled, the maxi single has two versions of "Highwire" (A-side), and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" and "Play With Fire" (B-side). The normal single had "Light Years" as B-side. To get them all, I bought the both versions at the same time. Yeah, memory makes tricks...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-05 11:38 by Doxa.

For me Play With Fire is a really important song in the Stones history - for several reasons.

For starters it is without doubt the first 'English' inspired song the band ever wrote. Until then the band were immersed in blues and r'n'b Americana.

It is also the first time that Mick got personal in his lyric writing, quite probably inspired by Dylan. They aren't 'you done me wrong so it's all over now' general type lyrics. No, these paint a very real scenario, mentioning place names that bring the song to life in quite a chilling fashion. The target is quite probably fictitious but she could also be a composite of the posh debutantes who the Stones would meet at parties and backstage at gigs.

The song was recorded in January 65 and quite possibly written at the tail end of 64 so this social observation would pre-date Ray Davies and his lauded depictions of English society by several months. The Kinks song A Well Respected Man springs to mind and didn't come out until autumn 65. So as British social commentators the Stones may well be ahead of The Beatles, The Kinks and The Who. It's worth thinking about.

I mentioned Dylan before - perhaps this gem is also the first UK pop nod to Dylan's songwriting. The Beatles' first Dylan inspired lyrics are generally acknowledged to have come on the song Help, released in summer 65. Were there any others before this?

And while lyrically the 66/67 years with all their Carnaby Street and Kings Road charm are thought of as the Stones' key London influenced period I'd have to say that Play With Fire was the first in that impressive era.

For all these reasons I think it's a major work by the Stones.

After hearing it via Hot Rocks and not knowing anything about it's creation years later I was surprised to learn that it had been recorded so early on.

It wouldn't sound out of place nestled in among Aftermath and Between The Buttons tracks.

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His Majesty
After hearing it via Hot Rocks and not knowing anything about it's creation years later I was surprised to learn that it had been recorded so early on.

It wouldn't sound out of place nestled in among Aftermath and Between The Buttons tracks.

100 per cent agree. It's the first of the English trilogy. And I include Satanic in that trilogy. TSMR may have been spaced out psychedelia but it had its roots in the UK scene, not West Coast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-05 21:18 by Silver Dagger.

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BroomWagon
It's also very British, perhaps even very English, maybe it's even what one might call "Music Hall" influenced at least. Up to BTB, I'd have to say the Stones were much more British/English than the Beatles, in fact, despite all the wrapping up in the Union Jack and "made in England" stamps on Who albums, the Stones seem even more that so that than the Who. I could be wrong, just my tuppence. Lady Jane, As Tears Go By, Backstreet Girl which is a lift to Chanson, these are the Stones' best ballads and songs like Play with fire are up there. The Best Stones was with Jones no doubt.

That is still only a handful of songs. In addition to the Who and the Beatles, there's also the Kinks, the Hollies, and Herman's Hermits (I'm probably just scratching the surface). Too many that indicates to me at least that the Stones were no more english than any of them and other groups (Pink Floyd is another).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-05 17:30 by nightskyman.

I had an album from West Bruce and Laing with a 15 min. version of Play with fire.
Well . .

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nightskyman

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BroomWagon
It's also very British, perhaps even very English, maybe it's even what one might call "Music Hall" influenced at least. Up to BTB, I'd have to say the Stones were much more British/English than the Beatles, in fact, despite all the wrapping up in the Union Jack and "made in England" stamps on Who albums, the Stones seem even more that so that than the Who. I could be wrong, just my tuppence. Lady Jane, As Tears Go By, Backstreet Girl which is a lift to Chanson, these are the Stones' best ballads and songs like Play with fire are up there. The Best Stones was with Jones no doubt.

That is still only a handful of songs. In addition to the Who and the Beatles, there's also the Kinks, the Hollies, and Herman's Hermits (I'm probably just scratching the surface). Too many that indicates to me at least that the Stones were no more english than any of them and other groups (Pink Floyd is another).

Let's just go with "Play with Fire", where are these kinds of English references specific in songs by the Kinks, Hollies, early Beatles (of course Sgt Pepper has the reference in "A day in life" to "4000 holes in Blackburn Lanchashire" but that is way down the time-line), Hermits do have close to that kind of reference in "No Milk Today", Hollies have "the old Toffee Shop" which is rather obscure.

Some Stones British references per "Play with Fire"

Quote

"Owns a block in Saint John's Wood"
"Now she gets her kicks in Stepney
Not in Knightsbridge anymore

Read more: Rolling Stones - Play With Fire Lyrics | MetroLyrics
[www.metrolyrics.com] "

The Kinks certainly fill the bill with songs such as "Dedicated Follower of Fashion" but I didn't mention them.

Lady Jane is obviously very British, [www.metrolyrics.com]

Magic Bus, not even recorded until 1968, Who Sell Out, [en.wikipedia.org], Dec., 1967. Jingles created by PAMS in Dallas Texas, album not released until December of 1967, Backstreet girl released in Jan. of 1967. Recorded in 1966, a ballad, Baroque Pop: [en.wikipedia.org], Lady Jane, Baroque Pop: [en.wikipedia.org]

[en.wikipedia.org] Baroque Pop: "baroque rock,[1] or English baroque,"

The Beatles are the only other band you mentioned that are also in the article, I guess that style might apply to "Norwiegan Wood" and maybe some others by the Beatles.

If you've got some examples, love to hear them.

Play with Fire - Baroque Pop [en.wikipedia.org]

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Baroque pop reached its height of success in the late-1960s, with several prominent exponents emerging and/or incorporating the genre into their repertoire, including: The Beach Boys, The Moody Blues, The Beatles, The Left Banke, The Rolling Stones, Love and Procol Harum.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-05 19:34 by BroomWagon.

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That is still only a handful of songs

It's a fair portion of early Jagger-Richards songs.



[www.flickr.com]

Per Wikipedia, Rolling Stones "Baroque Pop" songs, may be more, there is not a single list:

Play with Fire
As Tears Go By
Backstreet Girl
Lady Jane

Those are pretty significant songs in the early Stones catalog and especially when they started writing their own songs.

All of those recorded before by year, June 1967's Hollies release "Evolution" with "Olde Toffee Shoppe" which is so obscure it doesn't even get its own article.

Hollies Evolution [en.wikipedia.org]

RUBY TUESDAY too! What a great song, [en.wikipedia.org]

So arguably some of the best songs they have written, that is subjective, the importance of those songs in the Stones Catalog is not. They are important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-05 19:57 by BroomWagon.

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Silver Dagger
For me Play With Fire is a really important song in the Stones history - for several reasons.

For starters it is without doubt the first 'English' inspired song the band ever wrote. Until then the band were immersed in blues and r'n'b Americana.

It is also the first time that Mick got personal in his lyric writing, quite probably inspired by Dylan. They aren't 'you done me wrong so it's all over now' general type lyrics. No, these paint a very real scenario, mentioning place names that bring the song to life in quite a chilling fashion. The target is quite probably fictitious but she could also be a composite of the posh debutantes who the Stones would meet at parties and backstage at gigs.

The song was recorded in January 65 and quite possibly written at the tail end of 64 so this social observation would pre-date Ray Davies and his lauded depictions of English society by several months. The Kinks song A Well Respected Man springs to mind and didn't come out until autumn 65. So as British social commentators the Stones may well be ahead of The Beatles, The Kinks and The Who. It's worth thinking about.

I mentioned Dylan before - perhaps this gem is also the first UK pop nod to Dylan's songwriting. The Beatles' first Dylan inspired lyrics are generally acknowledged to have come on the song Help, released in summer 65. Were there any others before this?

And while lyrically the 66/67 years with all their Carnaby Street and Kings Road charm are thought of as the Stones' key London influenced period I'd have to say that Play With Fire was the first in that impressive era.

For all these reasons I think it's a major work by the Stones.

I just mentioned this but I will say this again. The Beatles were mixing Dylan lyrically with folk rock arguably before The Byrds who they influenced to form in the first place let alone The Rolling Stones. Lennon said he was influenced by Bob Dylan in the writing of the song "I'm A Loser". Many think it’s sound and subject matter was the precursor and partially responsible for the folk/rock explosion. Maybe Mic was influenced by The Beatles instead of Dylan as they were writing personal songs in late 1964.

You do make an interesting point though about The Rolling Stones writing a very English type of a song. I don't know if the Kinks or The Beatles ever got to writing this style of song until after "Play With Fire".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-06 00:25 by landis.

I just mentioned this but I will say this again....I didn't get it but please do ya mind repeating once more



ROCKMAN

Pardon . .?!

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landis

Quote
Silver Dagger
For me Play With Fire is a really important song in the Stones history - for several reasons.

For starters it is without doubt the first 'English' inspired song the band ever wrote. Until then the band were immersed in blues and r'n'b Americana.

It is also the first time that Mick got personal in his lyric writing, quite probably inspired by Dylan. They aren't 'you done me wrong so it's all over now' general type lyrics. No, these paint a very real scenario, mentioning place names that bring the song to life in quite a chilling fashion. The target is quite probably fictitious but she could also be a composite of the posh debutantes who the Stones would meet at parties and backstage at gigs.

The song was recorded in January 65 and quite possibly written at the tail end of 64 so this social observation would pre-date Ray Davies and his lauded depictions of English society by several months. The Kinks song A Well Respected Man springs to mind and didn't come out until autumn 65. So as British social commentators the Stones may well be ahead of The Beatles, The Kinks and The Who. It's worth thinking about.

I mentioned Dylan before - perhaps this gem is also the first UK pop nod to Dylan's songwriting. The Beatles' first Dylan inspired lyrics are generally acknowledged to have come on the song Help, released in summer 65. Were there any others before this?

And while lyrically the 66/67 years with all their Carnaby Street and Kings Road charm are thought of as the Stones' key London influenced period I'd have to say that Play With Fire was the first in that impressive era.

For all these reasons I think it's a major work by the Stones.

I just mentioned this but I will say this again. The Beatles were mixing Dylan lyrically with folk rock arguably before The Byrds who they influenced to form in the first place let alone The Rolling Stones. Lennon said he was influenced by Bob Dylan in the writing of the song "I'm A Loser". Many think it’s sound and subject matter was the precursor and partially responsible for the folk/rock explosion. Maybe Mic was influenced by The Beatles instead of Dylan as they were writing personal songs in late 1964.

You do make an interesting point though about The Rolling Stones writing a very English type of a song. I don't know if the Kinks or The Beatles ever got to writing this style of song until after "Play With Fire".

As far as that goes, it may not be Baroque Pop per definition but "Ferry Crosses The Mersey" comes out in 1964. Obvious references there.

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BroomWagon

Quote
landis

Quote
Silver Dagger
For me Play With Fire is a really important song in the Stones history - for several reasons.

For starters it is without doubt the first 'English' inspired song the band ever wrote. Until then the band were immersed in blues and r'n'b Americana.

It is also the first time that Mick got personal in his lyric writing, quite probably inspired by Dylan. They aren't 'you done me wrong so it's all over now' general type lyrics. No, these paint a very real scenario, mentioning place names that bring the song to life in quite a chilling fashion. The target is quite probably fictitious but she could also be a composite of the posh debutantes who the Stones would meet at parties and backstage at gigs.

The song was recorded in January 65 and quite possibly written at the tail end of 64 so this social observation would pre-date Ray Davies and his lauded depictions of English society by several months. The Kinks song A Well Respected Man springs to mind and didn't come out until autumn 65. So as British social commentators the Stones may well be ahead of The Beatles, The Kinks and The Who. It's worth thinking about.

I mentioned Dylan before - perhaps this gem is also the first UK pop nod to Dylan's songwriting. The Beatles' first Dylan inspired lyrics are generally acknowledged to have come on the song Help, released in summer 65. Were there any others before this?

And while lyrically the 66/67 years with all their Carnaby Street and Kings Road charm are thought of as the Stones' key London influenced period I'd have to say that Play With Fire was the first in that impressive era.

For all these reasons I think it's a major work by the Stones.

I just mentioned this but I will say this again. The Beatles were mixing Dylan lyrically with folk rock arguably before The Byrds who they influenced to form in the first place let alone The Rolling Stones. Lennon said he was influenced by Bob Dylan in the writing of the song "I'm A Loser". Many think it’s sound and subject matter was the precursor and partially responsible for the folk/rock explosion. Maybe Mic was influenced by The Beatles instead of Dylan as they were writing personal songs in late 1964.

You do make an interesting point though about The Rolling Stones writing a very English type of a song. I don't know if the Kinks or The Beatles ever got to writing this style of song until after "Play With Fire".

As far as that goes, it may not be Baroque Pop per definition but "Ferry Crosses The Mersey" comes out in 1964. Obvious references there.

Yep - well spotted that man. Although we could go back a bit even earlier to the 50s and Lonnie Donegan's cockney hit My Old Man's A Dustman.

Damn, I love this song. Always did. Beautiful, atmospheric tune with a unique 60's feel.

Listened to this song for the first time in a while today.

The Stones at their most threatening, without exception.

.....

Olly.

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Olly
Listened to this song for the first time in a while today.

The Stones at their most threatening, without exception.

Pretty amazing they could be threatening with just an acoustic guitar, a harpsichord, a tambourine and a bass.

The instrumentation is so friggin' great cause it's so sparse and yet so effective. Jagger makes the song work so well with so little, imo. His melody and singing are just perfect. He is really singing here, you can tell he's trying hard, enunciating his words so intently and adding drama when he changes it up on the chorus.

A true lesson in simplicity and the importance of the vocal melody. I doubt Mick could do this one justice today for some reason.

How did I miss commenting on this one the first time round? So simple but the dark hint of menace in the lyrics and the ghostly echo of the empty studio in the small hours make it an instant classic. One of the first tracks I fell in love with, and also one of my favourite Keith guitar intros ever: nothing fancy, just an acoustic guitar and someone with that feel. And the little rattlesnake noise at the end is the perfect finish.

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Green Lady
the little rattlesnake noise at the end is the perfect finish.

For those interested in such things, I think it was probably made by Jack Nitzsche shaking a Cabasa.

Great song! For me one of the best Stones ballads of the 60ies.

A very beautiful song, a great arrangement. They should have played it more often.

Great song, one of their best pop songs.

Been a month ago in London, and saw knightsbridge and saint John's wood, so the song finally have sense at least to me! Where's stepney?

--------------------------------------------


"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"

--------------------------------------------

What you need to know is that when the song was written Knightsbridge and St. John's Wood were very upmarket areas, and Stepney - er - wasn't.

There is a scene in The Wire, where McNulty (an American cop, but actually played by an English actor) has to pretend to be English (so, you have an English actor pretending to be an American who pretends to be English) and when he has to come up with his fake address, he gets inspired by - among others - Play With Fire:





video: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-27 16:25 by matxil.