Blinded By Love is one of the greatest songs of the latter day Stones. Fine lyrics and charming music. I have yet to figure why it engenders such hatred from a vocal minority. Like those who hate Miss You. Or Indian Girl.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
That was probably the case with GHS as well, Doxa, all "empty" after Exile...

Yer right protective of the 80's stones eh?

I agree with yer above probable though.

I grew up in the 80s. These albums were my companions for a long time (it was also round this time I started playing the guitar, and I learned a lot from TY, Undercover and Dirty Work), until I started digging into the 60s Stones, and eventually the 70s Stones

When SW came out I felt that it was a bit soft and over-produced, but eventually the album grew on me with time. Today, I find it to be the best "latter-day" Stones album.

The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

Very true, Doxa. Although I think Flashpoint was the last vinyl Stones-album I bought myself.

VL was described by Keith as their second double album. I guess he hadn't accustomed to the new cd era yet by then

Now vinyl is back, and I have bought Live In Texas, the SG release, as well as pre-ordered Sweet Summer Sun on vinyl. Heck, I bought Black And Blue the other day (someone stole my old copy at a party!).

Feels good getting the vinyls back. During the last months I have been collecting the entire Kinks catalogue and some King Crimson, too

Ouch, I forgot FLASHPOINT! Yeah, that was my last new Stones vinyl as well.

The last ever vinyl I bought (meaning the new releases) was MAIN OFFENDER though. And I needed to order that from my local record store, since they only had CDs there... that was the last nail in the coffin, and I finally understood that the times were changed... Off to CD player shop me run... and never came back.

It is nice to see the revival of album format, even though I am a bit skeptical if they conceptually are coming back in the sense of the artists making albums in that format in mind like in the good ole days... And I have more doom&gloom thoughts about the whole 'album' concept these days; the future is not bright...

- Doxa

Sad, but true. It is weird when they release double albums with two or three tracks on each side. Something's not right.

But there are artists (like Jack White) who I think are making their albums suit the vinyl format..

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
That was probably the case with GHS as well, Doxa, all "empty" after Exile...

Yer right protective of the 80's stones eh?

I agree with yer above probable though.

I grew up in the 80s. These albums were my companions for a long time (it was also round this time I started playing the guitar, and I learned a lot from TY, Undercover and Dirty Work), until I started digging into the 60s Stones, and eventually the 70s Stones

When SW came out I felt that it was a bit soft and over-produced, but eventually the album grew on me with time. Today, I find it to be the best "latter-day" Stones album.

You sounded like having more critically-trained ear by then, Dandie, since for me STEEL WHEELS sounded absolutely spot-on, and I was so amazed how contemporary and current the Stones were like...

If I join the 80's apologism wagon here - as a fellow kid of the decade - and say a few words about how it looked like then. The time has shown that those Three Big Albums of the decade - UNDERCOVER, DIRTY WORK and STEEL WHEELS - are about the most dated - and 'hated' - albums they ever have done, especially concerning their production. I don't deny that common verdict but it really sounded different then for a just-born Rolling Stones fan like me. I honestly thought at the time that that all of them sounded damn good. That they sounded 'contemporary' was the most natural thing. It was a value of its own that they sounded different than their earlier works. I think there was no point in comparing them to their earlier masterpieces because they were something different, sounding like they had never sounded before. No album during the 80's should have sounded like BEGGARS BANQUET or EXILE ON MAIN STREET, and not either like SOME GIRLS. Those things belonged to the past and now is now. Surely for more 'trained ears' who had followed them from the 60's or the 70's their recent doing might have sounded 'artificial' and 'what the hell they try to do now; are they out of their minds?", but for a kid like me who got his musical training in that climate, there was nothing odd in that. If they had tried to do a 'retro' album then, that might have sounded odd.

In that sense each of those three albums sounded damn good and fresh and sonically relevant at the time when they were released. And each was also different in compared its predecessor. To me it looked like they actually were a current band and still going forward, trying to follow the trends. A grown up Doxa would say: stil adding something to their legacy.

I wasn't so blind that I couldn't recognize that there might not have been born a new Stones classic (even though the Stones singles still were doing rather well in the charts), but I still thought - at least for some years - that the albums were rather strong ones in terms of their own. To really rate them how they do in their huge catalog was something for the latter yaers (and decades) to come.

So even though the 80's now sounds like a dark ages in modern music and especially in the Stones story, I don't think it was so bad at all to be a Stones fan those days. Yeah, no tour, but still we were treated with lots of new records. After TATTOO YOU we got STILL LIFE, UNDERCOVER, SHE'S THE BOSS, DIRTY WORK, PRIMITIVE COOL, TALK IS CHEAP, STEEL WHEELS... a new interesting, and someheow relevant 'Stones' album almost every year (can anyone remember what a thrill is to have the first ever Jagger or Richards solo album?)I guess we 80's fans were naive and laughed (then and) now probably by both 'elder' and 'younger' generation of fans, but we have an unique perspective of our own to the story of the ever-going ongoing advendtures of the Rolling Stones!

Besides there are many of us!

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-23 12:46 by Doxa.

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Doxa
The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

As a die hard vinyl fan I find these comments interesting and would not disagree.

Ironically, my main issue with SW is with the production and mastering to vinyl !

It's a bit too long for single album .

If it had been mastered to two discs, like subsequent releases, the sound could have been so much more open and less compressed.


I do agree though that the changing formats heralded a big change in the whole concept and feel of an album.

I also think that the additional 3 or 4 songs required to suite the typical CD running time proved hard work for a lot of artists and albums weren't necessarily better for being longer. It's the old quality versus quantity thing ;^)

probably been mentioned many times in thread , but the cure for SW s easy: play only the outtakes rendition.
Then you have a real Stonesalbum.

....don't ya hate the word hate .....



ROCKMAN

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Spud

Quote
Doxa
The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

As a die hard vinyl fan I find these comments interesting and would not disagree.

Ironically, my main issue with SW is with the production and mastering to vinyl !

It's a bit too long for single album .

If it had been mastered to two discs, like subsequent releases, the sound could have been so much more open and less compressed.


I do agree though that the changing formats heralded a big change in the whole concept and feel of an album.

I also think that the additional 3 or 4 songs required to suite the typical CD running time proved hard work for a lot of artists and albums weren't necessarily better for being longer. It's the old quality versus quantity thing ;^)

It was also digitally recorded (their first one?), and that may have coloured the sound.

I do not hate it. Just do not listen to it very often recently. And I like 'Monitor Mixes' better.

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
Spud

Quote
Doxa
The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

As a die hard vinyl fan I find these comments interesting and would not disagree.

Ironically, my main issue with SW is with the production and mastering to vinyl !

It's a bit too long for single album .

If it had been mastered to two discs, like subsequent releases, the sound could have been so much more open and less compressed.


I do agree though that the changing formats heralded a big change in the whole concept and feel of an album.

I also think that the additional 3 or 4 songs required to suite the typical CD running time proved hard work for a lot of artists and albums weren't necessarily better for being longer. It's the old quality versus quantity thing ;^)

It was also digitally recorded (their first one?), and that may have coloured the sound.

Don't get me started on that subject again

Quote
Doxa
Ouch, I forgot FLASHPOINT! Yeah, that was my last new Stones vinyl as well.

The last ever vinyl I bought (meaning the new releases) was MAIN OFFENDER though. And I needed to order that from my local record store, since they only had CDs there... that was the last nail in the coffin, and I finally understood that the times were changed... Off to CD player shop me run... and never came back.

It is nice to see the revival of album format, even though I am a bit skeptical if they conceptually are coming back in the sense of the artists making albums in that format in mind like in the good ole days... And I have more doom&gloom thoughts about the whole 'album' concept these days; the future is not bright...

- Doxa

Flashpoint sufferred with the same problem on vinyl . It would have sounded so much better on two vinyl discs . No room on one disc for enough real low end or dynamic range.

Quote
Spud

Quote
Doxa
The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

As a die hard vinyl fan I find these comments interesting and would not disagree.

Ironically, my main issue with SW is with the production and mastering to vinyl !

It's a bit too long for single album .

If it had been mastered to two discs, like subsequent releases, the sound could have been so much more open and less compressed.


I do agree though that the changing formats heralded a big change in the whole concept and feel of an album.

I also think that the additional 3 or 4 songs required to suite the typical CD running time proved hard work for a lot of artists and albums weren't necessarily better for being longer. It's the old quality versus quantity thing ;^)

Yeah, it lasts longer than their previous albums, so there might be some CD influenced thoughts already prevailing in its creation. But I still claim that the vinyl format was still more guiding idea. Vinyl market was still quite a big thing, and they seemingly wanted the album to be released in one single disc (to be as commercially potential album as possible). But surely it was not any longer a 'pure' vinyl-based album as, say, DIRTY WORK still was. I guess it was a kind crossroads album, trying to reach the both markets at the time.

Like DandelionPowderman mentioned, it was their first digitally recorded album, and the way it was mixed might also indicate that it was the CD version that it was aimed for. To be played mostly in CD players and sound as good as possible there. I think that decision - if it holds any truth - was like knowing where the record industry and interest in future will be.

- Doxa

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Spud

Quote
Doxa
Ouch, I forgot FLASHPOINT! Yeah, that was my last new Stones vinyl as well.

The last ever vinyl I bought (meaning the new releases) was MAIN OFFENDER though. And I needed to order that from my local record store, since they only had CDs there... that was the last nail in the coffin, and I finally understood that the times were changed... Off to CD player shop me run... and never came back.

It is nice to see the revival of album format, even though I am a bit skeptical if they conceptually are coming back in the sense of the artists making albums in that format in mind like in the good ole days... And I have more doom&gloom thoughts about the whole 'album' concept these days; the future is not bright...

- Doxa

Flashpoint sufferred with the same problem on vinyl . It would have sounded so much better on two vinyl discs . No room on one disc for enough real low end or dynamic range.

True. That was the first album I remember thinking that why on earth it sounds so damn 'thin' and 'non-dynamical', like something essential sonically is missing. With STEEL WHEELS that didn't occur to my mind yet.

- Doxa

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Rockman
....don't ya hate the word hate .....

I hate it! But like the original poster hints at, it should not be taken that literally. The way I interpret the title "Why does everyone hate Steel Wheels?" is to say "why STEEL WHEELS is not appreciated very much among the die-hard Stones circles?" or "Isn't Steel Wheels a bit under-rated?"...

- Doxa

There is no proof whatsoever that everyone hates Steel Wheels. This is a stupid thread to begin with...

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Stoneage
There is no proof whatsoever that everyone hates Steel Wheels. This is a stupid thread to begin with...

C'mon, Stoneage, I know you can see through it...

- Doxa

Sure, Doxa. But an overstated question tends to attract overstated answers...

Provocative thread titles can be quite effective, the same can be said for album covers and song lyrics by a certain band.

I don't think the OP meant to be overly dramatic and even if he did, this thread has turned out to be quite interesting, so it's all good, as my math teacher used to say.

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Spud

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
Spud

Quote
Doxa
The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

As a die hard vinyl fan I find these comments interesting and would not disagree.

Ironically, my main issue with SW is with the production and mastering to vinyl !

It's a bit too long for single album .

If it had been mastered to two discs, like subsequent releases, the sound could have been so much more open and less compressed.


I do agree though that the changing formats heralded a big change in the whole concept and feel of an album.

I also think that the additional 3 or 4 songs required to suite the typical CD running time proved hard work for a lot of artists and albums weren't necessarily better for being longer. It's the old quality versus quantity thing ;^)

It was also digitally recorded (their first one?), and that may have coloured the sound.

Don't get me started on that subject again

Out of key?

Quote
Doxa
I guess it was a kind crossroads album, trying to reach the both markets at the time.

Like DandelionPowderman mentioned, it was their first digitally recorded album, and the way it was mixed might also indicate that it was the CD version that it was aimed for. To be played mostly in CD players and sound as good as possible there. I think that decision - if it holds any truth - was like knowing where the record industry and interest in future will be.

- Doxa

Exactly so

At that time there would still be significant sales on vinyl...so the price and marketing was an issue.
Later on, as CD became the only mass market medium, the vinyl was kind of a "quirky alternative", offered to it's remaining enthusiasts who wouldn't baulk at the additional cost of a double...or would actively welcome it.

It's nice that vinyl now seems to have re-carved it's own little niche market and the industry appears to think it's again, to a degree, worth catering for.

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
Spud

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Spud

Quote
Doxa
The moral of this thread seems to be "why does no one hate Steel Wheels?"...

There is one feature I need to mention in regards to STEEL WHEELS. While musically it can be called an opener of a 'new era' (despite still having that 80's 'experimentalism'), as an album it ends one era: that of the concept of an album is based on vinyl format. Even though CDs had took the lead by then, and sonically seen as the main purpose in albums, STEEL WHEELS still is a traditional album in the sense how it was constructed. The flow - and the amount - of the songs and how they are put in two sides, each telling a story of its own, is still pure vinyl-guided. VOODOO LOUNGE, by contrast, is a totally CD concept based album. Lots of things had happened during those 5 years.

I feel nostalgic now... STEEL WHEELS was the last brandnew Stones album I bought as a vinyl. I guess quite many of you bought it as a CD, and it might sound to you a 'pure CD release' (and you might not see consisting of two sides), but I was still 'last of the mohicaans' like very much against the whole new format, and the arguments it being so much sonically better was metaphysics to me... I lost the war, but for me STEEL WHEELS always will be nothing but a vinyl release...

- Doxa

As a die hard vinyl fan I find these comments interesting and would not disagree.

Ironically, my main issue with SW is with the production and mastering to vinyl !

It's a bit too long for single album .

If it had been mastered to two discs, like subsequent releases, the sound could have been so much more open and less compressed.


I do agree though that the changing formats heralded a big change in the whole concept and feel of an album.

I also think that the additional 3 or 4 songs required to suite the typical CD running time proved hard work for a lot of artists and albums weren't necessarily better for being longer. It's the old quality versus quantity thing ;^)

It was also digitally recorded (their first one?), and that may have coloured the sound.

Don't get me started on that subject again

Out of key?

><

My office is right next to the best vinyl shop in town. Amazingly, there are lots of people there all the time. This is a rather luxurious shop, offering mostly 180g or 200g records, very often with mp3 rips of the album included.

So, something is indeed cooking regarding people buying vinyl again.

I actually miss the times when I truely 'hated' some sort of music (when I was a young little snobby fool like the kids are now...)... nowadays no such passionated feelings don't occur... maybe in regards to some Idols/X factor kind of 'talent'-seeking manufactured things the music business is today full of, but still the term 'hate' is too much... more like cynicism or sadness..

Or is the term 'hating' generally only a bit provocative expression of 'not liking'.... What actually is to hate music?

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-23 14:30 by Doxa.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
My office is right next to the best vinyl shop in town. Amazingly, there are lots of people there all the time. This is a rather luxurious shop, offering mostly 180g or 200g records, very often with mp3 rips of the album included.

So, something is indeed cooking regarding people buying vinyl again.

Yep,

It's quite uplifting for old vinyl hound like me



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-23 14:29 by Spud.

Hate is always better than indifference, when it comes to music

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Hate is always better than indifference, when it comes to music

Yep, it says that it means something. Even though if we take 'hate' literally, it refers to such a strong passion or inner state of mind, that I guess it is rather rare that we actually mean that when we use the word in regards to music...

Okay, let that be enough of the use of words, and let us just use them...

- Doxa

...and abuse them