How would things have been if someone like George Martin had produced the early Stones instead of ALO? I like the sound of the early stuff but it is nowhere near the Beatles in production values. And yes, I like the muddy, murky sound of Exile, etc. Just thinking how good something like Out of Time, She's A Rainbow or Ruby Tiesday could have sounded with even better production. Andrew didn't know a mixing board from a toaster when they started!

Elmo, I have thought about this very often! In fact George Martin has done a fantastic job. If you listen to remixed stuff like on the "1" CD, the production sounds very fresh and well balanced even in nowadays standards. If you then listen to Forty Licks, it is just not comparable. With George Martin the Stones stuff would have been recorded with much better sound - BUT: George Martin really was a producer, he was the one who convinced Paul to record "Yesterday" solo and wrote a classical arrangement for it. He had quite a lot influence musically until the White Album - Helter Skelter, Revolution No. 9 and Why Don´t We Do It In The Road was the stuff that he hated. The Beatles then had kind of freed from his influence.

My point: With George Martin the Stones would have had a better sound, but the arrangement would also have been more polished - and I don´t know if we would really like to hear clean versions of that early Stones garage rock stuff.

Here is the whole point about the Beatles. G. Martin meant all and everything for the Beatles - without him they would have been just an ordinary band....

The four of them wrote happy and joyfull music - musically they were / are just on average level....

I have thinking a lot of this, too. But I’m not sure what to think.
The bands worked in different ways. The Beatles worked a lot in the studio. And always in the same Abbey Road studio.
The Stones recorded in different studios along the tours in the US. In probably better studios than in London.
And maybe, maybe the Stones knew more about what sound they wanted in the early days???

Maybe they did know more about the sound they wanted, but I think a lot of their poor sound qualtiy (no bass, etc.) was due to Andrew trying to produce without a clue. As time passed, the Glimmers definitely learned how to use the studio to get the sound they desired. Shattered, Hot Stuff, and Start Me Up are three examples of a good production to me.

I think the whole GHS is very well produced.
The thought of Martin producing Stones fills me with horror.
But still its an interesting discussion.

GM would have probably cleaned up the sound too much to keep the raunch going. Isn't that what all the complaints are about on this board - Was, Leavell, Darryl. etc. making the sound too slick? Still, a better sound earlier would have been nice.

Yep, the early stuff sounds a little bit canned.
But making a history line of it: Clear sound on early discs = ?
I heard they still sounded crap in 1967 even on stage.
So it might not only be a question if production.

True. In fact , in 1981 in Orlando they sounded like crap on stage as the guitarists were drunk! However, so was I and it was the Stones!!!!

Goerge Martin's production of the early albums would kick the shyte out of ALO's. ALO was PR, not producer...

"The wonder of Jimi Hendrix was that he could stand up at all he was so pumped full of drugs." Patsy, Patsy Stone

I think what we have to remember is that even though both Martin and ALO
had never worked with a R&R band before in a studio (although Martin
is a musician), they made the greatest records ever made.

Things would have turned out very different IMO for the Stones, especially Mick ans Keith if Martin was involved. The "grit" of the Stones early material would be gone. Of course the grit was from Andrew, Mick and Keith not knowing what they were doing.....but it created their sound and by Aftermath they had things under control, then lost all control with Majesties. When the drugs wore off they hired Jimmy Miller and we know the rest.

IMO, Martin would have done what he did with The Beatles.....go for the pop sound. One question with Martin.....why did he pan the recordings the way he did ? drums to the right, vocals to left....puzzles me.

Milo, NYC
It's very complicated

GM is a great producer, but more in a classical sense. He did wonders with string arrangements and brass sections etc,. but I never really liked the guitar sound of the Beatles. It's too clean and tight in my opinion. I'm glad the Stones worked with Miller and Kimsey, they knew how to record R&R drums and guitars IMO.

Mathijs

That's good question. I love the chaotic and half-produced sound in some early Stones work.. the singles like "I Wanna Be Your Man" and "Not Fade Away"; the whole Out Of Our Heads (UK) album is so "punk" in its raw unfinished and unprofessional character. Very anti-Beatles. But then there are some works that really suffer from lousy production. I think the singles "Get Off of My Cloud", "19th Nervous Breakdown" and "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby?" are the worst examples and I think they seem to be based on real mistakes done in production. At least my ears are not able to forgive the lousy final result of those good songs.

But then.. maybe some George Martin would have destroyed productive direct hits like "It's All Over Now", "Satisfaction" or "Paint It, Black"... So very difficult to say if the Stones were lucky or not to have an amateur like Andrew in charge...

- Doxa

And now when I give it another thought, of the "mistakes" in production I need to add almost the whole Between The Buttons album. In that album a person like George Martin would have been a bless, I think (it is so 'pop' already to suit him beautifully). It is really dated awfully (compared to other albums released at that time).

Of the great direct hits of production I would say "The Last Time" is ageless and unique piece of art with that superb guitar riff sound and echoed vocals. In that one a person like George Martin is good to have as far as possible.

- Doxa

Keith has always said the wrong version of "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby" was released. He also said the other version was clean and very tight sounding. If so, why hasn't it showed up on a boot?

I'm not slamming George Martin, but giving him all the credit for the Beatle's success is silly. George Martin had some minor success with the group America in the 70's but that's about it.

He also recorded Cheap Trick in the late 70's - early 80's. Very Beatle-like sound even before GM got there.