I don't necessarily believe in any particular conspiracy theory. But "open and shut" casers should have a look at E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession. Pretty interesting stuff. It seems to me the "open and shut" lone gunman people have the same problem the CT people of - they have a bad habit of ignoring any and all evidence that doesn't fit their conclusion. Even Gerald Posner in his so-called "case closed" book is guilty of that. Interesting guy, Posner.

Edited for typos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-10 07:37 by 71Tele.

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stanlove
Meyers fixed nothing, its just that amatuers who are looking for a conspiracy claim he messed up. The amatuers are what run the conspiracy arguments.

Meyers got caught cheating.

Brilliantly exposed by Bob Harris.





you also need to take a map of Dealey Plaza yourself and draw some lines.

The single bullet doesn't work from the 6th floor and neither does the Tague shot (to hit the pavement over by Tague Oswald missed by 30 degrees).

Meyers NEVER shows the simple overhead view of the area, it's all swinging dancing CGI...

Things line up (including Tague) from the Daltex building though.

I don't know what happened exactly... my current opinion (and it's just that) is that Oswald was mixed up in it all but he didn't know he was being set up.. I think he was asked to stand by the phone in the lunch room or somewhere (possibly the utility room below the lunch room)... I think he then did something unexpected when he realised and fled the scene and this required the stalking of him at DPD and killing by Jack Ruby.

He was a bright chap.

But who knows.

There's so much about him we still don't know (but others certainly do).

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GravityBoy

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stanlove
Prove that Paine had filling cabinets full of that..This will be flimsy. Most CT don't even trot that out..

Educate yourself.

[jfkassassination.net]

The statement of Buddy Walters County of Dallas Sherrifs Department. Nov 1962

"Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall."

Who saw the hand bills and everything else that was claimed to be in there? Give me the name?

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stanlove

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GravityBoy

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stanlove
Prove that Paine had filling cabinets full of that..This will be flimsy. Most CT don't even trot that out..

Educate yourself.

[jfkassassination.net]

The statement of Buddy Walters County of Dallas Sherrifs Department. Nov 1962

"Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall."

Who saw the hand bills and everything else that was claimed to be in there? Give me the name?

?

Er.. Buddy Walters... Dallas Sheriffs Dept.

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GravityBoy
You do know that Ruth Paine was married to the stepson of the man who invented the Bell 47 helicopter (the Mash chopper) ? Michael Paine.

You do know that Ruth Paines mother was a friend of the mistress of Alan Dulles, head of the CIA?

You do know that Oswalds and the Paine's friend George de Mohrenschildt was a personal friend of the Bouvier family and Jackie referred to him as "Uncle George"?

For a low-life defector, Oswald walked in some pretty connected circles.

We could play six degrees of Lee Oswald but you'd only need two in most cases.

You simply can not look at LHO and dismiss it all as "lone nut".

Why would the FBI and CIA still have unreleased files on him?

Then there's Jack Ruby... oh Jack Ruby... the patriot...

If you don't want to ask hard questions then have a nice life.

Many CT tactics in here..

They just LOVE guilt by association to death. They can't get enough of it.


Then we get to the unreleased files. YOu don't know anything about unreleased files. And I mean nothing. You don't know how many cases have unreleased files, you don't know why these are unreleased. But here you are claiming that they are proof of a conspiracy..Thats desperation...

And of course you have not even bothered to study Jack Ruby. Everyone who actually knew him ( not conspiracy authors trying to make a buck ) said he was a complete nut case and emotional trainwreck. They said he was extremely upset that weekend and a very violent person..Why anyone is surprised he killed Oswald when he got a shot is very surprising.

Have you ever read about the anger that overcomes people when a President is assassinated. Garfield's assassin was almost killed twice before he got to trial. Have you ever bothered to read about all the people who wanted to kill Booth when he killed Lincolm? The police had to drag people off Arther Bremer because they though they were going to kill him after he shot Wallace.


The two most upsetting events in the last 50 years in America were the JFK assassination and 9/11. Being surprised that someone killed Oswald is on par with being surprised that some citizen would have killed Bin laden if given the chance.

The case is far and away the most studied case in history and nobody has ever given any proof that there was a conspiracy, and when you look at Oswald's life and movements its laughable to think there was one. It was an open and shut case that was figured out by 11/23/1963..

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GravityBoy

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stanlove
Meyers fixed nothing, its just that amatuers who are looking for a conspiracy claim he messed up. The amatuers are what run the conspiracy arguments.

Meyers got caught cheating.

Brilliantly exposed by Bob Harris.





you also need to take a map of Dealey Plaza yourself and draw some lines.

The single bullet doesn't work from the 6th floor and neither does the Tague shot (to hit the pavement over by Tague Oswald missed by 30 degrees).

Meyers NEVER shows the simple overhead view of the area, it's all swinging dancing CGI...

Things line up (including Tague) from the Daltex building though.

LOL. So Bob Harris said something you like..Give us Bob Harris qualifications in this field.List them..

He is a joke even in the conspiracy community..Did you bother to read Meyers response? Meyers is actually an award winning pro. You can find it online..I am positive you have never even bothered to read his response.


This case has been looked at by expert panel after expert panel and they have all said that all shots came from behind and they match up to where Oswald was in the TSBD. 3 shots were fired from the 6th floor without a doubt, over 90 % of witnsses said they heard less then 4 shots.. Then Oswald left the bld and killed a cop and tried to shot another. He tired to kill a General a few months earlier. he left his wedding ring and almost all of his money with his wife that day for the first time ever., Its open and shut.

i'm a bitter fan.

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GravityBoy

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stanlove

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GravityBoy

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stanlove
Prove that Paine had filling cabinets full of that..This will be flimsy. Most CT don't even trot that out..

Educate yourself.

[jfkassassination.net]

The statement of Buddy Walters County of Dallas Sherrifs Department. Nov 1962

"Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall."

Who saw the hand bills and everything else that was claimed to be in there? Give me the name?

?

Er.. Buddy Walters... Dallas Sheriffs Dept.

Now give me the testimony where he claimed to have seen hat was in them..

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stanlove
LOL. So Bob Harris said something you like..Give us Bob Harris qualifications in this field.List them..

He is a joke even in the conspiracy community..Did you bother to read Meyers response? Meyers is actually an award winning pro. You can find it online..I am positive you have never even bothered to read his response.

Which bit of Bob's video is wrong?

Jeeze.. just look at the way Meyers cheats the graphic when it goes from wire frame car to solid car.

Did you extent the red line out from JFK's chest?

Did you ever try and match up Connellys real wounds with the Meyers CGI? (The bullet exited by his nipple not the middle of his chest).

Meyers is a liar.

The proof is in his video.

You got anything besides ad hominem?

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stanlove
Now give me the testimony where he claimed to have seen hat was in them..

This is getting weird.

His 23rd Nov 1963 statement found buried in the Warren Commission was linked earlier.

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GravityBoy

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stanlove
Now give me the testimony where he claimed to have seen hat was in them..

This is getting weird.

His 23rd Nov 1963 statement found buried in the Warren Commission was linked earlier.

Here is his WC testimony..He did not see what was in the filing cabinets..You fell for one more thing.


Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?
Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?
Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.
Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?
549

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.
Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.
Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.

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GravityBoy

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stanlove
LOL. So Bob Harris said something you like..Give us Bob Harris qualifications in this field.List them..

He is a joke even in the conspiracy community..Did you bother to read Meyers response? Meyers is actually an award winning pro. You can find it online..I am positive you have never even bothered to read his response.

Which bit of Bob's video is wrong?

Jeeze.. just look at the way Meyers cheats the graphic when it goes from wire frame car to solid car.

Did you extent the red line out from JFK's chest?

Did you ever try and match up Connellys real wounds with the Meyers CGI? (The bullet exited by his nipple not the middle of his chest).

Meyers is a liar.

The proof is in his video.

You got anything besides ad hominem?

Dale responded to you yesterday at his website.

[jfkfiles.blogspot.com]

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Here's his rebuttal:

I’ve gotten more than one email in the last few days asking about a
video posted on YouTube over the weekend claiming to debunk my
computer animation work on the validity of the single bullet theory.

This latest video posting, entitled “Dale Myers or Voodoo Geometry
101,” arrives courtesy of conspiracy advocate Robert Harris who
manages to prove how little he knows about my computer work,
photography and geometric relations, and the Kennedy assassination in
general in less than six minutes.

The crux of Mr. Harris’ argument is that yours truly (that’s me)
falsified the geometric positions of Kennedy and Connally in order to
make it appear that the single bullet theory was valid and that the
single bullet shot traced back to Lee Harvey Oswald’s firing position
on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. In short,
according to Mr. Harris, my computer work is a transparent lie.

Never mind that Mr. Harris’ charges have been made numerous times in
the past by equally ignorant detractors and rebutted in detail on my
own website (see, FAQ: Computer Reconstruction of the JFK
Assassination) and here in this forum (see, Con Job: Debunking the
Debunkers).

The modern day pied pipers of the YouTube generation count on the
short attention spans and general ignorance of their audience to sell
their own brand of snake-oil and promote themselves as reliable
purveyors of truth via video on the Internet.

Of course, anyone can point a webcam at their own mug a pretend to be
someone of knowledge and responsibility. Hence, the wisdom of the
ancient axiom, “You get what you pay for.”

In this case, those who buy Mr. Harris’ free offerings are getting a
pig in a poke.

For instance, Mr. Harris makes the foolish claim that he can measure a
two dimensional still frame of a computer rendering of the
presidential limousine and it’s occupants (as culled from the
Discovery Channel program, “Beyond the Magic Bullet”) and determine
the angle of a three-dimensional trajectory from the sniper’s nest.

Apparently Mr. Harris never heard of (or understands) the underlying
principle of photogrammetry, which in essence shows that it is
impossible to project three dimensional lines in space onto two
dimensional photographs without taking into account the location and
angle of both known vantage points. By some wizardry unknown to human
science, Mr. Harris is able to do both.

Conspiracy guru Jack White found out the lessons of photogrammetry the
hard way when he took a beating in 1978 while trying to convince the
House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that multiple press
photographs of Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano rifle depicted multiple
rifles of differing lengths. The “proof” Mr. White offered of the
multiple rifle cover-up were measurements he made on two-dimensional
press photographs.

As the HSCA photograph experts called to rebut Mr. White rightly
pointed out, the former advertising photographer failed to take into
account the relationship between the camera making the photograph and
the tilt of the rifle in three dimensional space. In fact, White had
never heard of the principle of photogrammetry.

Apparently, Mr. Harris never heard of Jack White’s boo-boo, because he
makes the same error. And he makes it more than once.

For instance, Mr. Harris claims that a comparison of a photograph of
the presidential limousine made early in the parade route with a
computer rendering of my limousine model shows that “Myers has jammed
the two men much more closely together than they really were.” Mr.
Harris claims that the distance between the back seat where the
president was seated and Governor Connally’s jumpseat were compressed
in my computer model by “a little over fifty percent.”

What is the evidence for the charge that I manipulated the dimensions
of the limousine to better serve the single bullet theory?

Mr. Harris offers nothing more that his own self-proclaimed expertise
at visually aligning two different photographs made from two
completely different angles in three dimensional space – an virtual
impossibility – along with an unsupported declarative statement:
“There is no way JFK’s legs could have been up against the back of
Connally’s car seat.”

In fact, Mr. Harris’ credibility on this last point is effectively
destroyed by the existence of numerous photographs taken throughout
the motorcade (a photograph on the back dust jacket of Bill Sloan’s
JFK: Breaking the Silence to name one) which shows exactly the
opposite to be true – Kennedy’s knees were comparatively tight to the
back of Connally’s jump seat.

In addition, Mr. Harris’ claim that “when the House Select Committee
on Assassinations depicted the victims they had to move Connally
considerably [more] to his left” than he appeared to be in other
photographs suggests that Mr. Harris doesn’t know that the HSCA
Photographic Panel mistakenly based Connally’s position on a line of
sight as seen in a photograph made by Hugh Betzner and that the HSCA
analysis failed to take into account the fact that Connally’s right
shoulder was below Betzner’s line of sight (as proven by the Altgens’
photograph) and hence Connally might have been seated further right
than the HSCA believed. My three dimensional analysis of the Zapruder
film bares this fact out.

Most importantly, Mr. Harris states, “The next scene from [Mr. Myers’]
presentation includes an amazing sleight of hand or pixels or
whatever. Watch closely folks, as Mr. Myers tries to hide the evidence
of his deception by slipping the victims back into a proper position.”

Here, Mr. Harris shows a clip from the Discovery program which
features my computer work in which the moment of the single bullet is
shown in wireframe and in solid form as the camera circles the
limousine and its occupants.

Mr. Harris then adds this, “Okay, notice two things here. First the
car and the background are all wireframes. Also, he still has Kennedy
and Connally close together, so that 18 degree bullet trajectory looks
pretty reasonable. But as the car rotates, notice that something
happens. The wireframes disappear and right in the middle of the
rotation, Mr. Myers switches to a totally different video. In this
video he positions President Kennedy and Governor Connally correctly.”

What Mr. Harris doesn’t know is that the two renderings (wireframe and
solid form) depict the same model.

That’s right folks, the wireframe model that he claims has been
“jammed together” in order to mislead the American public and
perpetuate the cover-up, is the exact same model (and in the same
position) as the solid form model which Mr. Harris says depicts
Kennedy and Connally correctly.

For you tech junkies, the model of the single bullet moment was simply
rendered in a 360 degree rotational view multiple times with a variety
of surface settings (wireframe, solids, etc.), and then combined with
simple dissolves pulled between the various layers.

At the end of his presentation, Mr. Harris proudly boasts, “People
like Myers have been playing this same game for years, misconstruing
the positions of the President and Governor Connally to make it appear
that the shot was fired from the sixth floor of the depository. But
the angles from there just don’t work.”

Of course, the only game players in this case are the conspiracy
diehards like Mr. Harris who refuse to accept the reality of what
happened in Dealey Plaza and prefer instead to prey on the young and
naïve who are more than happy to follow any video pied piper willing
to tell them whatever they want to hear about the Kennedy
assassination – truth be damned.

The proof is in Meyers in video.

"What Mr. Harris doesn’t know is that the two renderings (wireframe and
solid form) depict the same model."

They clearly don't.

You can see the sleight of hand.

And again... did you extend the red line in the video out JFK and see where that went?

Did you ever read about Connellys real wounds?

Did you ever sit down with the Warren Commission map of Dealy Plaza and draw the lines from the 6th floor through the car?

There is no way that JFK and Connelly could be hit by the same bullet and produce those wounds from the 6th floor.

What was LHO supposed to be aiming at for the Tague shot?

Did you ever map that one out?

(It's a near miss from the Daltex however).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-10 17:28 by GravityBoy.

Maybe you need some help.



This is EXACTLY what crazy ol' Bob Harris was saying.

Dale Meyers is full of it.

...and the the Stones go on a full UK tour, opening for Little Richard, Bo Diddley and The Everly Brothers and had just released their second single --




1963"I Wanna Be Your Man"