I know most stones songs are credited as a jagger/richards as the song writers... but i don't think they can read or write music.. how do they get it turned into a song that everyone can play?
is it put on tape live then written in a song sheet by someone else?
also what bands out there can read music?

Is this a serious question?

Cheers,
Wuudy

How can it be serious when the whole of life is a friggin' joke...!!!

ROCKMAN

This tops the all time posts.
Nothing can match this.

Even though the post is insane, I will try to answer it. For the record, Keith has stated that he cannot "technically" read music, but obviuosly from doing it almost his entire life, he knows his way around, the key, the scales etc and everything that goes with writing a song.

Mick reads music, Ronnie can read music. I read in Stanley Booths book that it was actually Bill who transcribed many Jagger/Richard songs. He was, at one point, the only one who could read and write the music down. He (Bill) is qouted in the book as saying during the Muscle Shoals sessions "dont listen to Keith, he doesnt even know what he is playing, he cant read music". Apparently one of the staff was trying to write down and frame out the music for Brown Sugar and after talking to Keith it made no sense, so Bill stepped in.

I would imagine that Charlie can read music, although I guess he really does not need to.

In the end.....who knows. I think these days it is Mick that writes down the song structure. Check out the inside of Black and Blue, it shows the tracks, who plays what, when they play it and how the instruments are panned and mixed. Not sheet music, but it shows how a track is "mapped out" for mix down

Milo, NYC
Straight to meltdown

not being musically trained isn't a virtue, but it often leads to more interesting riffs, chords and even song structures than those too aware of "the rules" are bound to come up with.
I remember an audition with a good guitarist who couldn't understand how Jumping Jack Flash-chorus ended with the same chord that begins the verses, he wanted to go to "E". He obviously wasn't too familiar with the Stones material!

Wuudy Wrote:
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> Is this a serious question?
>
> Wuudy

My sentiments exactly....

JumpingKentFlash

Why's it supposed to be a stupid question? Playing brilliantly doesn't mean that you're equally good at notation, tablature etc... still someone has to note it down for the credit registration.

I like the question, not being a musician, and the answer from Milo

it was just a question? not able to write or read music myself..
i have heard this question before but never knew...
thank you milo, for taking the time to educate me.... the others want to just pretend they know, and want us to believe they are cool with their half ass reply....

I think Wuudy, Rockman et al didn't understand the question. They thought you meant how can you write good songs if you can't read or write music, whilst you actually asked how does the music get transcribed so that it can be published.

THANK YOU....sjs12..thats what i was saying! if keith puts it on tape who transribed it...thanks!

I suppose the way these guys 'write' can be seen in the inner sleeve of Woody's Gimme Some Neck album: the lyrics are rounded and divided by the chords with the signs for verse, chorus, bridge etc. The job of picking up the actual notes, melodies, riffs (and so on), and writting them to the paper belongs to other people (that the Stones don't need in their process of creating music)). I suppose most of the rock musicians write that way: creating the basic chord sequence that gives the musical structure to the song, and then covering it with the melody that somehow fits for it, or other way round: to find out the right chords to maintain and back up the melody "in the air", and spell them out. But of course this is no any rule, but all that is theoretically needed is the knowledge of chords (in the means of being able to articulate it).

Look out Keith and Mick doing "Mixed Emotions" in the studio; Mick (I think) is saying "here we need another minor (chord)", etc.

- Doxa

Sorry hot stuff, I also answered to the wrong question... but the answer ain't that bad...

- Doxa

Not an insane question at all. To be honest I had never really thought about it and found it interesting that Bill was the guy writing down the stuff on paper.

thanks again, sorry to all the stones fans for getting hot with them... i was a little afraid to bring it up my self... but i used to get into fights with my dad..he loved to put the boys down for not being able to read or write music..now that he passed away...well i just wanted to know...its not a big deal.
jagger/richards are the top of the rock! the best...sorry all!

Good question, Hot Stuff - I had always wondered the same myself.

I always imagined that the guy who transcribes the music is some theoretical bonehead who sits in a room all day listening to lots of different rock and pop records and writing the music down.

If you look at th official publications of some Stones songs (e.g. Sympathy for the Devil) then the quoted chords in the original sheet music are NOT correct. WHereas it should be E D A E, the sheet music is doing all kinds of weird stuff with Am, Dm etc. This must be because the theoretical musician simply transcribes a piano interpretation of melody + bass + some middle notes, and then works out the chords based on this written version and music theory.

Maybe someone has a better idea of what actually happens, rather than my guesswork?

How about the vibrato thingy????

I have never seen a photo of any stone reading music while recording in studio. I imagine that any one of them would arrive in the studio with a recording of a riff or a verse or a chord sequence, and the band woudl start from there. Eventually someone would add his cent. Everything gets recorded until the final cut. No needs for written charts.

I think Chuck L. said once that he has a book with all arrangements and notes for every single song they have rehearsed, but this only fou touring purposes.

C

Jimi Hendrix didn't read music and look what he did.

A genius virtuoso by anybody's standards.

A lot of the music and lyrics gets written down by fans who share it on the web on sites such as OLGA and harmony-central.

- Koen.

sjs12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Wuudy, Rockman et al didn't understand the
> question. They thought you meant how can you
> write good songs if you can't read or write music,
> whilst you actually asked how does the music get
> transcribed so that it can be published.


Exactly i miss understood the question. I thought you asked who wrote the songs because you thought they don't write/come up with the thereselves. Sorry.

Hot Stuff, I don't think you have to have all the notes written down to write a song. I think a lot of artists play from memory. If you come up with a certain riff you don't have to write it down because it's in your head. Therefore if everybodt else know all the chords it is not nessecairy to write them down.

Cheers,
Wuudy

that sure takes a lot of talent... i couldn't do that in a million years.ha!
thanks....

I didn't think it was a stupid question at all. To add further to the thread, I believe it was Mick who said once on the subject of songwriting, "Sometimes I don't know what the melody of the song is going to be until I open my mouth to sing." Interesting.

if there's a chord structure, or a riff before any lyrics/melody, usually the vocals develop by trying out what sounds fit the existing music. Same thing basically as when a guitarist improvises a solo.
Those wrong minor chords in some sheet music might come from guys who don't understand the pentatonic blues scales where a minor scale is played over major chords (usually).
Who needs theory when they got ears?

Quite many musicians (maybe the best ones) don't play music / or compose music by reading notes or writing notes down (of course one like Mozart wrote music did so).....

The good ones play it by listening to the music.... by the way, that's the best way to play music - reading music and then playing it makes it false somehow.... you don't get the fealing / emotion in the music by reading notes......

I think the question was more about written music sheets after the songs are recorded. There are several reasons for transcribing music after it is recorded:

1. Music books

I think basically anybody can publish music books with Rolling Stones songs in them. You just need to license and pay some fees. There are books out there from subcompanies of EMI and ABCKO but also by other commercial companies.

Those music book publishing companies probably hire some guy who is musically educated to transcribe it all. That person may or may not be familiar with the music of the Stones. My guess is the stones have nothing to do with it. Most books I have are indeed full of very stupid mistakes.

2. Official transcription

Now there also has to be one official transcription to secure their publishing rights (for BIEM, ASCAP etc.), but their publishing company probably handles all that.

Stones song are always based on chords, riffs or vocal melody, so there's not really any need for written music in rehearsals or for sidemen. I doubt they give Darryl Jones a songbook; it's more likely they told him to listen to their songs and come back te next day. The backing vocalists probably work out their arrangements and present them to Mick for approval.