It probably is mainly a keith song. Minimal lyrics derived from Robert Johnson ideas, not unlike "you got the silver." Still I would be suprised if Mick didn't have some lyrical input.

Oh and let's not forget that Keith isn't totally selfish in giving credit for songs. He says that "Before they Make Me Run" is a collaboration, but Mick says Keith wrote it all. Keith gives Mick criedt for "Let it Loose." Mick says Keith wrote it all. Let's not forget keith gives Mick Jagger total credit for Moondlight Mile which was written by Keith, Jagger and taylor.

We all know that Gimme Shelter and Brown Sugar were not totally written seperately as they claim. You can tell in each song by the chords, licks and lyrics. They just allow each other to take credit for major majority contribution unless they are being sarcastic, or looking to win favor with each other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:45 by Slimharpo.

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Redhotcarpet
I knew the answers on my post when I posted it. And I knew who would react in what way.

.

>< Some people are very predictable, a bit like a Vegas Stones show...><

- Doxa

Being intentionally unpredictable is kind of vain. Being accurate seems more noble.

Yes! Wish they played it in Boston.

My favorite aspect of the recording is that, as it starts you can hear voices, laughter, maybe glasses clinking in the background as if a party is going on in the next room. In my mind the picture is a lonely man by himself sitting on the steps outside a bar where people inside are carrying on the party without him ... this heightens the effect of loneliness in the track to me

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Doxa

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Redhotcarpet
I knew the answers on my post when I posted it. And I knew who would react in what way.

.

>< Some people are very predictable, a bit like a Vegas Stones show...><

- Doxa

Redhotcaret was being predictable with his Brian writing the melody post.

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Slimharpo
It probably is mainly a keith song. Minimal lyrics derived from Robert Johnson ideas, not unlike "you got the silver." Still I would be suprised if Mick didn't have some lyrical input.

Oh and let's not forget that Keith isn't totally selfish in giving credit for songs. He says that "Before they Make Me Run" is a collaboration, but Mick says Keith wrote it all. Keith gives Mick criedt for "Let it Loose." Mick says Keith wrote it all. Let's not forget keith gives Mick Jagger total credit for Moondlight Mile which was written by Keith, Jagger and taylor.

We all know that Gimme Shelter and Brown Sugar were not totally written seperately as they claim. You can tell in each song by the chords, licks and lyrics. They just allow each other to take credit for major majority contribution unless they are being sarcastic, or looking to win favor with each other.

I think when they talk about the song they don´t always mean the lyrics too. I have read Mick saying that "Keith wrote the song, I wrote only the lyrics to it".

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His Majesty

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Doxa

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Redhotcarpet
I knew the answers on my post when I posted it. And I knew who would react in what way.

.

>< Some people are very predictable, a bit like a Vegas Stones show...><

- Doxa

Redhotcaret was being predictable with his Brian writing the melody post.

Redhotcaret? - now there's a concept. Were you being intentionally funny or unpredictably humorous Phil? ><

Very unpredictable

Got tickets for July 6 now, Mike. See ya!

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DandelionPowderman
Very unpredictable

Got tickets for July 6 now, Mike. See ya!

Still not got mine but not worried, yet! We'll have to meet up for a beer. And get Doxa and a few other regulars involved. Send me an email Bard and we can arrange a pub to meet.

Haven't gotten mine either, but I finally decided to go, and booked a pair of tier 2 tickets

Of course we'll meet up. Have we settled on which pub yet?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 12:05 by DandelionPowderman.

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Silver Dagger

Redhotcaret? - now there's a concept. Were you being intentionally funny or unpredictably humorous Phil? ><

"unpredictably humorous"

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DandelionPowderman
<I think the "outtake" version is the basic track>

Both Keith's and Brian's guitars, as well as Bill's bass is not exactly the same as on the basic track for the album.

OK, on relistening to the short outtake (as on Time Trip Vol. 4) I hear some differencies in Brian´s slide compared to the official track.
I don´t detect the difference in Keith´s guitar, though...
The bass is very different and the vocals are the same.

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rootsman

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DandelionPowderman
<I think the "outtake" version is the basic track>

Both Keith's and Brian's guitars, as well as Bill's bass is not exactly the same as on the basic track for the album.

OK, on relistening to the short outtake (as on Time Trip Vol. 4) I hear some differencies in Brian´s slide compared to the official track.
I don´t detect the difference in Keith´s guitar, though...
The bass is very different and the vocals are the same.

Keith is sliding down on the dark E string at one point, something I don't recall from the studio version.

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His Majesty

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rootsman


I think the "outtake" version is the basic track, to which percussion and a new bass was added - also remixed.
After the 2.22 point, there is no percussion and the bass (to my ears) is different - so not the official version spliced in...

Ah, your post has reminded me that we've been over this before.

Up to 2.22 is the same as the version I posted, a true outtake, but an alterante mix/take of the officially released version has been spliced on.

I assume it's the alternate mix fom R.S.V.P bootleg that has been added on?

We´ve been through this before, yeah...

This could be the last time...

The short Time Trip Vol. 4 version indeed seems to be a true outtake.
Different bass, slightly different slide, possibly slightly different acoustic; same vocals, though.

The long version is the one on RSVP. After 2.22 it continues with an alternate mix of the official track:
No percussion/claves
More audible organ, placed differently in the stereo perspective
Less audible piano
Possibly different bass (I´m not sure anymore...ear fatigue?)

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rootsman

The short Time Trip Vol. 4 version indeed seems to be a true outtake.
Different bass, slightly different slide, possibly slightly different acoustic; same vocals, though.

Everything on the Time Trip - Volume 4 version is different from released version.

Much like the Take 1 Dear Doctor which also appears on Time Trip - Volume 4, it sounds like a live take really, no overdubs, just as it happened.

The only difference between the alternate mix and the released version is the addition of claves and of course, it's mixed differently, but the vocal and instruments are all exactly the same take as the released version.

This makes me wonder if Stu is the one playing organ and it was played during the live recorded takes rather than as an overdub later.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 14:27 by His Majesty.

It's so funny watching you all fumble with the terminology.

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Carster
It's so funny watching you all fumble with the terminology.

Hilarious.

In retrospect there seem to be references to Brian and his fate in earlier Stones songs, 'I could not foresee this thing happening to you', 'Lose your dreams and youth, may lose your mind, ain't life unkind' and of course 'I have no expectations to pass through here again'. It's all ridiculous of course because Mick or Keith probably wrote those lyrics without a second thought to Brian, but maybe these things happen on another level. Brian's slide on No Expectations does seem to be Brian trying to express the sadness going on around him.

Wonder what the hell they discussed on that fateful ride down to Cotchford Farm to fire him? Mick claims not to remember, but you know his memory is selective.

True. As far as "who wrote what", likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas. Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that. Mick likely "finished" the lyrics, and bam! Classic Stones track.

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24FPS
In retrospect there seem to be references to Brian and his fate in earlier Stones songs, 'Lose your dreams and youth, may lose your mind, ain't life unkind'.

It's 'Lose your dreams and YOU will lose your mind'.

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24FPS
In retrospect there seem to be references to Brian and his fate in earlier Stones songs, 'I could not foresee this thing happening to you', 'Lose your dreams and youth, may lose your mind, ain't life unkind' and of course 'I have no expectations to pass through here again'. It's all ridiculous of course because Mick or Keith probably wrote those lyrics without a second thought to Brian, but maybe these things happen on another level. Brian's slide on No Expectations does seem to be Brian trying to express the sadness going on around him.

Wonder what the hell they discussed on that fateful ride down to Cotchford Farm to fire him? Mick claims not to remember, but you know his memory is selective.

There's no doubt that the truth about that drive has never been spoken. There's more bs from the principles about that meeting than any other moment.

What's clear is Brian composed his slide guitar part and did an incredible job and that keith and possibly Brian deserve huge credit on tracks like this for saving the stones from the detour of satanic majesties and kicking off the golden era by refocusing the band on its roots and taking an album rather than single oriented approach.

Take one acoustic guitar strummed plainly but beautifully. Add one slide guitar doing a plaintive accompaniment. Add one vocal, simple but heartfelt. Put them together and garnish with minimalist bass, organ, a tiny bit of percussion and Nicky's piano tiptoeing in to add the water splashing on the stone as the song fades out. Like all the best dishes, plain and simple ingredients, combined with skill and love.

One of my favourite Stones songs, and one where the magic of the studio version can't be exactly duplicated, by the Stones or anyone else, because it is so bound up with the people who made that recording on that day.

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Green Lady
Take one acoustic guitar strummed plainly but beautifully. Add one slide guitar doing a plaintive accompaniment. Add one vocal, simple but heartfelt. Put them together and garnish with minimalist bass, organ, a tiny bit of percussion and Nicky's piano tiptoeing in to add the water splashing on the stone as the song fades out. Like all the best dishes, plain and simple ingredients, combined with skill and love.

One of my favourite Stones songs, and one where the magic of the studio version can't be exactly duplicated, by the Stones or anyone else, because it is so bound up with the people who made that recording on that day.

What else can we say...........it sums up all of it.........any other comment will only .......thanks Green Lady

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Thrylan
True. As far as "who wrote what", likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas. Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that. Mick likely "finished" the lyrics, and bam! Classic Stones track.

"likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas"

"Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that."

You've got a good thing going here with so many things being "likely" - why not just keep Mick out of it entirely - why ruin it by adding Mick Jagger to the mix...

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wanderingspirit66

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Thrylan
True. As far as "who wrote what", likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas. Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that. Mick likely "finished" the lyrics, and bam! Classic Stones track.

"likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas"

"Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that."

You've got a good thing going here with so many things being "likely" - why not just keep Mick out of it entirely - why ruin it by adding Mick Jagger to the mix...

"likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas"

As far as I know that's the way he composed all of his songs ......Mick Jagger ones mentioned (think it was 1970) he never write tunes ...except the lyrics ............

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NICOS

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wanderingspirit66

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Thrylan
True. As far as "who wrote what", likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas. Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that. Mick likely "finished" the lyrics, and bam! Classic Stones track.

"likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas"

"Brian's slide it beautiful in its simplicity; what he plays is obvious, likely the first thing that would pop up for anyone laying down slide on that."

You've got a good thing going here with so many things being "likely" - why not just keep Mick out of it entirely - why ruin it by adding Mick Jagger to the mix...

"likely Keith came with chords, structure and lyrical ideas"

As far as I know that's the way he composed all of his songs ......Mick Jagger ones mentioned (think it was 1970) he never write tunes ...except the lyrics ............

Did he forget Brown Sugar?

Well, when your screen name is "Wanderingspirit". This isn't Mick hate, just a "likely" scenario.....for this song....according to what both Mick and Keith have said in interviews. Mick brings musical ideas as well....but we're dealing with one song, no huge generalizations, please.

No Expectations is a Robert Johnson tribute song.